The PLO Covenant: did they, or didn't they ?

Roofgardener

Critical Thinker
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Hello everyone. I hope you'll forgive the impertinance of a new member creating this thread. I couldn't help but notice that most threads discussing Israel/Palestine tend to get diverted onto the issue of the Palestinian/PLO Covenant.

This originally called for the destruction of Israel of a State by violent revolution. The controversy is that the PLO where required to ammend this covenant as a precondition to inclusion in the Oslo peace negotiations. They where required to strip out the various conditions about the illegality of the State of Israel, and its destruction. The question is... was it ever actually ammended ?

This is not a dry historical issue; if the Covenant was never ammended, then the PLO is at war with Israel, and the Palestinian Authority is invalid.

So I thought I'd create this thread as a 'lightening conductor' to prevent the discussion clogging up all the OTHER "Israel" threads.

OK... here's the situation as I see it. Feel free to tear me to shreds.

Firstly, the original Palestinian National Charter.
(actually, this is the SECOND edition, formally approved by the Palestinian National Council in 1968. The FIRST edition was created in 1964. A copy can be found here

Neither look particularly condusive to peace.

Then, in the early 1990's, we had the so-called "Oslo" peace negotiations. As a pre-condition, both parties (the PLO and Israel) had to recognise each other. This led to the famous " letters of recognition"
This was truly groundbreaking stuff. Could peace TRULY be on the horizon ?

For the Israeli side, the Knesset ratified Yitzhak Rabin's commitment to recognising the PLO, albeit by a slim majority.

Yasser Arafat took the proposal to the Palestinian National Council - the only body authorised to change the Covenant. In 1996, they voted to ammend the charter, and stated that a legal team would draft a new version, with the hostile paragraphs removed, as per Arafat's letter.

And now it gets interesting.
The legal committee was never appointed. It never sat. It produced no draft, and - obviously - the PNC never voted to ratify the (non-existent) ammended version.

The old Charter is still in force.

In 1988 the Israeli Delegation to the second round of the Oslo accords complained about this. Arafat assured them that the delay was purely an administrative/beurocratic issue, and that the Covenant WOULD be ammended.

It never was.
The issue was somewhat overclouded when Arafat stormed out of the 2000 Camp David summit, and initiated the second Intifada. A few years later, HAMAS won the PA elections, triggering a chrisis for the international community, and ultimately resulting in the takeover of Gaza. Then there was the war with Hezbollah in Lebannon. Then TWO incursions into Gaza against HAMAS. With no substantive peace talks on the horizon, the issue has been somewhat sidelined. But it still exists, and would cloud any future peace talks.

And thats where we are today !
 
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PLO view:

http://www.pac-usa.org/the_palestinian_charter.htm

tl, dr: They voted to amend the charter, but then didn't amend it. They then decided to redraft the charter (seeing as the whole thing is basically anti-semitic drivel), and firmly promised to do so, and then nothing happened.

Questionable at best. I wouldn't trust them with a paperweight.

McHrozni
 
According to this article from last August, there hasn't even been a regular meeting of the PNC since 1996, so also no opportunity to adopt a new charter. I have no idea if there has ever been a drafting committee.

But anyway, the point has become a bit moot. Clinton and Rabin were satisfied with Arafat's promise back then, and the Oslo peace process is long dead in the water.

Moreover, what is the relevance now of the PLO? It doesn't unite all Palestinian factions, notably Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not members. As that article highlights, it even has problems calling a session of its own council.

And politically, its role has been eclipsed by the Palestinian National Authority (which technically is a body of the PLO). It's the PNA that has declared statehood, has passed a constitution and operates a parliament, an executive and a judiciary, and has observer status at the UN.

ETA: The changes between 1964 and 1968 reflect, IIRC, the change in outlook of the PLO. It was set up in 1964 very much as an Egyptian puppet. After the disastrous (for the Arab side) Six-days war in 1967, the PLO asserted itself as an independent political force, not tied to one or the other Arab country.
 
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According to this article from last August, there hasn't even been a regular meeting of the PNC since 1996, so also no opportunity to adopt a new charter. I have no idea if there has ever been a drafting committee.

But anyway, the point has become a bit moot. Clinton and Rabin were satisfied with Arafat's promise back then, and the Oslo peace process is long dead in the water.
They where satisfied with his promise that the PNC would ammend the Covenant.

It turned out to be a broken promise. Clinton looked like an arse. Rabin was assasinated for it.

Moreover, what is the relevance now of the PLO? It doesn't unite all Palestinian factions, notably Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not members. As that article highlights, it even has problems calling a session of its own council.
Ergo, Israel has nobody to negotiate with.

And politically, its role has been eclipsed by the Palestinian National Authority (which technically is a body of the PLO). It's the PNA that has declared statehood, has passed a constitution and operates a parliament, an executive and a judiciary, and has observer status at the UN.
The PA has no authority to declare statehood. It has not passed a constitution. (another Palestinian Lie), and it is the PLO.. and NOT the PA, that has status at the UN.

All of which is interesting.... but none of it changes the facts.

The PLO pulled of a Big Lie that even Hilter would have been proud of.
They lied in the faces of the American president, the European Union representative, and the world.

They claimed to be seeking peace, whillst in reality protecting their Covenant of Hatred.

They remain committed to the destruction of Israel as a state, with violent commando action and revoultion as their preffered tools, and a rejection of all peace treaties.

And you wonder why the Israelie populace elected Netenyahu ?
 
Five posts were moved to AAH for being an off-topic derail. The topic of this thread is reasonable clear, and it is also very clear the topic is not Israel and how evil it is (or isn't).

PLO Covenant: Was it amended? Discuss....
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jsfisher
 
Ergo, Israel has nobody to negotiate with.

And the unwillingness to accept that reality has given us the ridiculous charade of the Israelis being asked to make concessions when there is no hope of said concessions bringing peace.

The only thing that can bring peace is if the Palestinians are interested in peace. But they aren't, and can't even bring themselves to amend a genocidal charter as a gesture of good faith.
 
And the unwillingness to accept that reality has given us the ridiculous charade of the Israelis being asked to make concessions when there is no hope of said concessions bringing peace.

The only thing that can bring peace is if the Palestinians are interested in peace. But they aren't, and can't even bring themselves to amend a genocidal charter as a gesture of good faith.

Everyone is going to have to make concessions. They are also going to have to do it in the face of people who tell them that there is no hope of the concessions they make bringing peace.


should be easy eh?
 
Everyone is going to have to make concessions. They are also going to have to do it in the face of people who tell them that there is no hope of the concessions they make bringing peace.


should be easy eh?
We know who can negotiate on behalf of Israel, who negotiates for the Palestinians?
 
For those who claim the PLO covenant was revised: Show us the new charter and the differences between it and the old one. Nothing less will be satisfactory in my eyes.
 
And thus you see the problem.

Palestine state is a bad joke as a result. If Palestinians ever do get a state, they'll need to get two - West bank (PLO) and Gaza (Hamas).

This isn't such a bad idea per se though. It would still require both PLO and Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist. PLO came close once, whereas Hamas considers that topic to be taboo.

I'm reasonably sure that within another 40-50 years or so, nearly every Jew in Israel will be able to claim descent from a Jew that resided in Palestine prior to 1860s or so, completely negating the point of "Zionist invasion". I do wonder what's the Palestinian plan for THAT eventuality. That's less time than the amount of time that has passed between Yom Kippur war and today.

McHrozni
 
We know who can negotiate on behalf of Israel, who negotiates for the Palestinians?

Who negotiates on behalf of Israel? The leader of the party thats charter says there is no possibility ever of a palestinian state?

Who negotiates on behalf of Palestinians? The leader of a faction that would be unlikely to have the power to force complaince of other factions many of which reject any form of Israeli state?

Not a problem....they should have it sorted by lunchtime.
 
Who negotiates on behalf of Israel? The leader of the party thats charter says there is no possibility ever of a palestinian state?

Who negotiates on behalf of Palestinians? The leader of a faction that would be unlikely to have the power to force complaince of other factions many of which reject any form of Israeli state?

Not a problem....they should have it sorted by lunchtime.
Except that Israel already has offered a plan for a Palestinian state, which the Palestinians promptly rejected and never even made a counteroffer.

It's funny how often you keep showing up here over a decade now with the same tired old nonsense arguments, and have learned nothing in all that time.
 
Except that Israel already has offered a plan for a Palestinian state, which the Palestinians promptly rejected and never even made a counteroffer.

It's funny how often you keep showing up here over a decade now with the same tired old nonsense arguments, and have learned nothing in all that time.

yes Israel has offered plans, Palestinians have offered plans....all have been rejected by the other side.


What do you see as the future of the stateless people living around Israel?
 
yes Israel has offered plans, Palestinians have offered plans....all have been rejected by the other side.

Which plans have they offered, and when?

What do you see as the future of the stateless people living around Israel?

There is only one solution, which was with us all along. They must be resettled as citizens in other Arab states, prefferably the ones they're living in now. You know, like Israel did with Jews fleeing the Arab world after 1949.

McHrozni
 
Which plans have they offered, and when?

Google is your friend.

A couple of times they have sat down together but the positions of both sides was unacceptable to the other.




There is only one solution, which was with us all along. They must be resettled as citizens in other Arab states, prefferably the ones they're living in now. You know, like Israel did with Jews fleeing the Arab world after 1949.

McHrozni

Do they get to stay where they are or is this the McHrozni version of Ethnic Cleansing?
 

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