The day you are saved - from religion

[The Big Dog]

I don't know what you expect from me... to define ignorance? I admit I do see informing people (you know, education) to be a means of elevating people. Did I miss the point when we decided that education wasn't universally important?

I don't see myself as harmed by religious beliefs and more than the average atheist - I've never had to deconvert and deal with judgmental family or anything like that. My parents are "deistic" at most and even then they recognize that it's just something they want to believe, but can't justify.

Yes, I am absolutely willing to work for that. I know that people have a hard time renouncing beliefs (especially religious ones) even under intense scrutiny. I want people to at least try to evaluate their beliefs, though, and I think it's evident that in the modern era with great things like the internet and a pretty globalized society in some sense (we're flying people all over the world every hour) that people are becoming less and less religious with time, because their beliefs are finally being challenged.

My only "conversion" was to skepticism, and I'm not even sure how that happened (I think finding out about Randi and Popoff was the first step). Again, antitheism is just a subset of this.

I've tried to briefly explain my rationale for antitheism. Maybe you disagree, I don't know. You haven't challenged my reasoning, though. I want people to be as reasonable as possible and for this to happen, religious beliefs need to be scrutinized. The reason I want people to be as reasonable as possible is because our beliefs inform our actions. It's really that simple. Actually, I'm amazed I could summarize this in just two short sentences because I'm not very good with English (despite it being my only language).

I'd love for you to explain what you mean by "militant" and "creed" in this context, because I 1) don't know and 2) have no idea what it has to do with whether or not antitheism is rational

edit: sorry in advance for highlights. I hate splitting up quotes

I'm not sure that your rationalizing your prostylyzing anti-theistic beliefs makes it any better than people prostylyzing their theistic beliefs.

 

[Nowhere Man]

prostylyzing

Proselytizing. Pro-sel-y-ti-zing.

Fred

 

[The Big Dog]

Proselytizing. Pro-sel-y-ti-zing.

Fred

Lolz, not according to my iPad! It autofills that.

proselytizing.

My faith in my spell checker was misplaced!

 

[Leumas]

I'm not sure that your rationalizing your prostylyzing anti-theistic beliefs makes it any better than people prostylyzing their theistic beliefs.

There you go again spouting anti-atheism claptrap while equating the syphilis bacterium with the physician trying to stop it from eating people's brains away.

"Prostylyzing [sic] theists" peddle and proselytize ignorance and superstition and stupidity and irrationality. They oppose progress and enlightenment while advocating backwardness and benightedness.

"Prostylyzing [sic] anti-theists" are trying to stop the above vitiation and retardation.

The former is akin to a virus invading a body while the latter is akin to the physician trying to medicate the body.

Thanks for making it clear which side you prefer.

 

[The Big Dog]

There you go again spouting anti-atheism claptrap while equating the syphilis bacterium with the physician trying to stop it from eating people's brains away.

"Prostylyzing [sic] theists" peddle and proselytize ignorance and superstition and stupidity and irrationality. They oppose progress and enlightenment while advocating backwardness and benightedness.

"Prostylyzing [sic] anti-theists" are trying to stop the above vitiation and retardation.

The former is akin to a virus invading a body while the latter is akin to the physician trying to medicate the body.

Thanks for making it clear which side you prefer.

Yeah, you already said that. I don't think that doctors cure anything by screaming at it, not sure why you are trying to.

I prefer the side that is not covered with spittle soaked rhetoric.

 

[Leumas]

...phargis, I think it is you who is here trying to indoctrinate people into the notion believers are evil/ignorant/less moral...

[imgw=500]https://spagmonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/christian-persecution.jpg[/imgw]

 

[Leumas]

Is some nepotist fundi who refuses to do her job and issue the marriage certificates she is legally obligated to issue interfering with civil society?

Of course she is.

Are the shameless politicians and demagogues who celebrate her intransigence interfering with civil society?

Of course they are.

Should non-theists who think that it is wrong for her to force her religiously founded bigotry on people who don't agree with her supposed to stand silent because "it's not good to retaliate"?

Should non-theists who think that amoral and hypocritical populist demagogues who use such behavior as a plank in their platform seeking political and financial power stand silent because "it's not good to retaliate"?


No. I don't think so.

As long as there are people who use their purported religious beliefs to act out their prejudice then standing silent is bad.

As long as there are power seeking hypocrites who find it simple and convenient to use those believers in their efforts to harvest power then standing silent is bad.

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_512824eb207d719dc1.jpg[/imgw]

 

[Leumas]

<snip... claptrap>

...antitheism is militant and a creed, not rational and an ideology.

<snip... some more gobbledygook>

[imgw=500]http://bornagainpagan.com/cartoons/005-nowyouknow.jpg[/imgw]

 

[eerok]

I prefer the side that is not covered with spittle soaked rhetoric.

I doubt that you mean that, because that would put you on the side of the average atheist.

Most of the crazy stuff comes from American fundamentalist Christians. These are the people who hate science, reality, and anyone who doesn't swallow the narrative of their weird, gult-ridden death fantasies. Under the influence of the typical charismatic preacher, the American "patriot" has become a hater, a bigot, and a fool. And while you're at it, pay up, sucker. Ripping off ignorant, poor Americans has become the new heaven on earth. Prosperity! Send money! Be blessed!

America has made Christianity into a dirty, greedy joke that no one with any brains would even laugh at.

 

[aleCcowaN]

I'd love for you to explain what you mean by "militant" and "creed" in this context, because I 1) don't know and 2) have no idea what it has to do with whether or not antitheism is rational

edit: sorry in advance for highlights. I hate splitting up quotes

Militant: combative, aggressive, looking for situations where to serve "the cause", "the goal" or "the ideal".
Creed: a rigid system of belief
As a whole: everything having the quality of the emotional and primitive (rigid, stereotyped). And I don't mean the rational content of atheism but the emotional motivation of antitheism; it's here where the "militant" and "creed" applies, not the rationalization.

One question: Are you looking for situations where to "illustrate" the gullible believers or you just react when an instance of explicit religiousness affects you, like an antipathetic reaction in your environment or a Jehuda wisnet knocking at your door? Having a stance against the interference of explicit or concealed religiousness in civil life is not antitheism. Neither is reacting on meddling religious people trying to get proselytes.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Proselytizing. Pro-sel-y-ti-zing.

Fred

Good! Someone had to say it. Our decimal friend was making me nervous.

 

[aleCcowaN]

[imgw=500]https://spagmonster.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/christian-persecution.jpg[/imgw]

[imgw=500]http://bornagainpagan.com/cartoons/005-nowyouknow.jpg[/imgw]

So far, you have shown to do exactly the same in an opposite fashion. The only defence of antitheism is not having an outlined dogma, but strongly reacting against what deviates from that non-existent dogma . That gives it away as a religious reaction to theism with rational facets and not as a rational reaction to religion.

 

[Leumas]

<snip... anti-atheism claptrap and fetid red herrings>

I would be a millionaire by now if I had a dollar for every time a theist or pretend atheist used the putrid and vapid casuistic ruse of trying to equivocate atheism with their very own casuistry by deploying rehearsed bare assertions, tu quoques and non sequiturs among piles of other claptrap sophistry.

There you go yet again spouting anti-atheism claptrap while equating the syphilis bacterium with the physician trying to stop it from eating people's brains away.

Apologists and casuists disseminate and spread ignorance and superstition and stupidity and irrationality. They oppose progress and enlightenment while advocating backwardness and benightedness.

Atheists who actively point out the fraudulence and vileness of casuistry and apologetics are trying to stop the above vitiation and retardation of reason and logic and rationality.

The former is akin to a virus invading the bodies and brains of humanity while the latter is akin to the physician trying to medicate humanity and halt the invasive toxic virulence .

Thanks for making it abundantly clear on which side of the efforts to restore reason and rationality you prefer to stand.

 

[truethat]

I've mentioned before that it seems most "Angry Atheists" were raised in a home where they were taught Christianity in a way that suggested, everyone else was wrong, everyone else was bad, you need to save ....er harass them and berate them if they don't share your beliefs.

What do you think happens to that kind of person if they change their beliefs? They don't suddenly become rational thinkers or compassionate people.

Nope, they take their crazy fundamentalist mindset and just apply it to being Atheist.

They haven't changed, just their pet belief or lack thereof has changed.

 

[aleCcowaN]

I would be a millionaire by now if I had a dollar for every time a theist or pretend atheist used the trite and hackneyed casuistic imbecilic ruse of trying to equivocate atheism with their very own apologetics by using nothing more than bare assertions, tu quoques and non sequiturs among piles of other claptrap sophistry.

I read 'til there and the rest of your post simply vanished. It does every time I try to do it again. I think the browser knows I don't set foot where a ritual is being performed, and your post is just an antitheist mass, yikes!

I was wondering how much time had to pass before being "accused" of being a theist in disguise, as it happened before in a different thread. The reasonable type, like pharphis who may end up being an atheist or an antitheist, it isn't already decided, start abandon the thread and the zealots of the antitheist church of the latter farts become openly irrational and aggressive in order to keep their imaginary creed alive.

I will continue here to enjoy the effervescent reactions of the ritually engaged until it becomes boring again, because I'm not that crazy, I have not a cause against antitheist; I just dislike them, as they are just another thing of low value that makes difficult life within a society and stun progress.

 

[Tassman]

I'm not sure that your rationalizing your prostylyzing anti-theistic beliefs makes it any better than people prostylyzing their theistic beliefs.

Non-theistic beliefs are generally grounded upon verifiable substantive facts about the universe, whereas theistic beliefs are based upon unevidenced fantasy. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer credible evidence for what I believe in.

 

[Tassman]

I read 'til there and the rest of your post simply vanished. It does every time I try to do it again. I think the browser knows I don't set foot where a ritual is being performed, and your post is just an antitheist mass, yikes!

I was wondering how much time had to pass before being "accused" of being a theist in disguise, as it happened before in a different thread. The reasonable type, like pharphis who may end up being an atheist or an antitheist, it isn't already decided, start abandon the thread and the zealots of the antitheist church of the latter farts become openly irrational and aggressive in order to keep their imaginary creed alive.

I will continue here to enjoy the effervescent reactions of the ritually engaged until it becomes boring again, because I'm not that crazy, I have not a cause against antitheist; I just dislike them, as they are just another thing of low value that makes difficult life within a society and stun progress.

Who cares?

As I thought, this thread is degenerating in antitheist propaganda (no merit in spotting the obvious in the forum where everything repeats).

Leumas, I suppose you're keeping the champion of body count, the witch hunting in Great Britain and the Germanic world, for a future post. I wonder if people is to be convicted because of crime they didn't commit yet.

phargis, I think it is you who is here trying to indoctrinate people into the notion believers are evil/ignorant/less moral. That itself identifies antitheism as what it is, another form of belief. I only want antitheists to acknowledge their religious nature and stop poisoning the group of non-theist.

No, just ignorant.

 

[aleCcowaN]

What do you think happens to that kind of person if they change their beliefs? They don't suddenly become rational thinkers or compassionate people.

Nope, they take their crazy fundamentalist mindset and just apply it to being Atheist.

Exactly that. And I add, the removal of their theist bollocks is so superficial that they resent that fact and concentrate all their zeal and hate against the religion that "doesn't let them go free" in "the windmills of their minds" so to speak.

Speaking of winds, there must be much of it in the United States. I mean, with the number of people who lost tiles from their roofs and had many of the remaining barely kept in place with cinderblocks

 

[aleCcowaN]

Non-theistic beliefs are generally grounded upon verifiable substantive facts about the universe, whereas theistic beliefs are based upon unevidenced fantasy. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer credible evidence for what I believe in.

That's crap. You're changing your definitions in the middle of the sentence just to be seen like a penseur.

 

[tsig]

As I thought, this thread is degenerating in antitheist propaganda (no merit in spotting the obvious in the forum where everything repeats).

Leumas, I suppose you're keeping the champion of body count, the witch hunting in Great Britain and the Germanic world, for a future post. I wonder if people is to be convicted because of crime they didn't commit yet.

phargis, I think it is you who is here trying to indoctrinate people into the notion believers are evil/ignorant/less moral. That itself identifies antitheism as what it is, another form of belief. I only want antitheists to acknowledge their religious nature and stop poisoning the group of non-theist.

So any criticism of religion is anti-theist propaganda.