Corbyn did win, what's next?

[GlennB]

This is known as "being in denial". Corbyn's statement was in the context of there having been no trial. Cameron ignored that and, either deliberately or in deplorable ignorance, quoted him out of context. That is misrepresentation by any definition.

Amen. I hope this haunts Cameron, as he surely deserves.

Cameron: Marijuana is no big deal.
Cameron: Certainly we trashed that restaurant, but it's OK - we paid up on the spot.
Cameron: Yes, we went off and forgot we'd left our child in that pub, but what parent hasn't done such a thing at some point?

Not that he actually said those things, but could well have

 

[baron]

Who said anything about "freely discarding evidence"? No matter what the evidence, it still has to be presented in a trial.

All I'm saying is that I haven't seen this evidence, and neither has a jury. It may even be sound for all I know, but regardless of anything, you can't simply skip the trial and carry out the execution. Is that so hard to understand?

It is a bit difficult, yes, because whilst I'm aware that military actions are not sanctioned by jury you appear not to be. Such missions are not covered by domestic law.

On the contrary, the (alleged) killers of OBL are not facing execution without trial, so there's no double standard. OBL should have been tried.

Maybe, maybe not, but let's get back to the topic. Is it a tragedy that he was killed rather than face trial, rather than a mistake or a poor decision. No, not for anybody other the likes of Corbyn.

And the same goes for his (alleged) killers.

Rubbish. It's men like that who keep you safe in your bed. Sorry but it really pisses me off to hear this sanctimonious claptrap from people who take full advantage of the security provided by their country and who go on and routinely vilify the people who risk their lives to provide it in to flaunt their holier-than-thou credentials.

And they should be tried in Pakistan, where the crime (allegedly) occurred.

You can't value the rule of law much if you believe a fair trial can be achieved in Pakistan.

OK, back on topic after the derail:

This is known as "being in denial". Corbyn's statement was in the context of there having been no trial. Cameron ignored that and, either deliberately or in deplorable ignorance, quoted him out of context. That is misrepresentation by any definition.

I refer you to my earlier posts when I demonstrate that this argument doesn't hold water unless you're willing to redefine the English language around your agenda.

 

[GlennB]

Corbyn speech: "Cameron and his wife seemed to forget they had an 8-year-old daughter after a lunchtime trip to a pub. They only noticed she was missing after driving home. Of course, the Camerons claim a 'mix-up'". The Labour Party conference is appalled by this revelation of reckless parental behaviour towards a small girl and give Jeremy Corbyn a standing ovation.

Said a pub employee: "It's frightening the prime minister of Britain can forget something so important as his own daughter."

 

[GlennB]

The (alternative) Sun/Telegraph/Mail:

Should the Camerons face prosecution for child endangerment? Are these people fit parents? Is mandatory adoption the way forward for little Nancy?

 

[Aber]

Corbyn speech: "Cameron and his wife seemed to forget they had an 8-year-old daughter after a lunchtime trip to a pub. They only noticed she was missing after driving home. Of course, the Camerons claim a 'mix-up'". The Labour Party conference is appalled by this revelation of reckless parental behaviour towards a small girl and give Jeremy Corbyn a standing ovation.

Said a pub employee: "It's frightening the prime minister of Britain can forget something so important as his own daughter."

Nice straw man - the Conservatives haven't gone after Corbyn's private life, although there may be some interesting stories there.

 

[GlennB]

Nice straw man - the Conservatives haven't gone after Corbyn's private life, although there may be some interesting stories there.

Not a strawman - a parody. Big difference and I hope you can spot it. Cameron's statement about Corbyn re OBL is, however, much worse than both. It's pure misrepresentation of what JC said. Not too far from an outright lie, really.

 

[ddt]

"I fought for your freedom in the war. And what do you do with it? You do whatever you damn well please, don't you!"

To people who claim that America liberated us, I always point out that it was actually Canadians who liberated (most of) my country.

 

[Aber]

It's pure misrepresentation of what JC said. Not too far from an outright lie, really.

Given where Corbyn said it, are you sure that it is a misrepresentation of the message that Corbyn was trying to give the audience?

 

[lionking]

Given where Corbyn said it, are you sure that it is a misrepresentation of the message that Corbyn was trying to give the audience?

Corbyn is a politician. He knew the message he was sending would be well understood by his acolytes, but gave himself a little wriggle room for the apologists.

 

[The Atheist]

Amen. I hope this haunts Cameron, as he surely deserves.

It won't; Teflon Dave, they call him.

Has any muck stuck despite it coming out he put his dick in a pig?

If that gets a pass, any statement isn't going to make a ripple.

 

[Giz]

So would I. I can't see how this position is even arguable.

Agreed.

To all the apologists ; you notice that there have been other labor leaders who haven't suffered these "slurs". That's because they hadn't made similar comments. Corbyn is being host by a petard of his own making.

 

[MikeG]

Meanwhile, in actual political news, Labour at Westminster is in disarray after a volte-face on supporting the government's live-within-your-means legislation. Two weeks ago they were officially supporting it. Now, they are opposing it. Labour MPs are furious, openly contemptuous of the leadership:

It was a long and difficult meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party. One MP said it was the worst they had ever been to.
Jeremy Corbyn was apparently "read the riot act" and said nothing. Another described it as lacking "any aspect of democratic politics".
A former shadow cabinet member told me that it was "without doubt one of the most heated" PLPs and "passions were running high". Others were clearly outraged at the shadow chancellor's change of plan.
As he left the meeting, former cabinet minister Ben Bradshaw branded it a "total shambles".
John Mann MP was furious; he shouted so loudly at the party's leadership that he was easily audible in the corridor outside.

But at least Corbyn has retained his sense of humour:

a spokesman for Mr Corbyn said the meeting had been "warm and friendly"

The latter 2 quotes from the BBC article linked to above.

 

[Darat]

Some Labour MPs are angry.

 

[baron]

Meanwhile, in actual political news, Labour at Westminster is in disarray after a volte-face on supporting the government's live-within-your-means legislation. Two weeks ago they were officially supporting it. Now, they are opposing it. Labour MPs are furious, openly contemptuous of the leadership:



But at least Corbyn has retained his sense of humour:



The latter 2 quotes from the BBC article linked to above.

The puzzling thing is, how was this not expected? Corbyn is not a leader and he has no idea how to deal with people, not even members of his own party. The idea that he can relate to the wider pool of voters or - and clench your buttocks as you imagine the full horror of this - attempt to forge relations and do business with foreign powers is simply ludicrous.

 

[Giz]

The idea that he can relate to the wider pool of voters or - and clench your buttocks as you imagine the full horror of this - attempt to forge relations and do business with foreign powers is simply ludicrous.

Relations with Russia might improve. Heck, there might even be an official state visit to North Korea!

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

Well, the 'live within your means' legislation" was always a stupid idea.

Waiting for the 'weather must always be sunny' legislation…

 

[Antony]

Meanwhile, in actual political news, Labour at Westminster is in disarray after a volte-face on supporting the government's live-within-your-means legislation. Two weeks ago they were officially supporting it. Now, they are opposing it. Labour MPs are furious, openly contemptuous of the leadership:



But at least Corbyn has retained his sense of humour:



The latter 2 quotes from the BBC article linked to above.

"Actual political news": a couple of unnamed MPs, "a former shadow cabinet member" and 2 named sources (who may or may not be the same people) say some highly unprofessional things to reporters. Unspecified "others" were - in the subjective judgement of the reporter - "clearly outraged".

All of this, supposedly, because party leadership announced a change of voting strategy. Like that had never happened in an opposition or even governing party before. No indication as to whether the disagreement was over the new policy, or the fact of the change.

Of course, we're supposed to take this as a judgement on JC's leadership, rather than the rather uncontrolled reaction of a few among the PLP. What this report shows is how easy it is to write slanted news articles.

 

[trustbutverify]

Shockingly bad attempt at analogy.

It's a very good analogy.

 

[MikeG]

"Actual political news": a couple of unnamed MPs, "a former shadow cabinet member" and 2 named sources (who may or may not be the same people) say some highly unprofessional things to reporters. Unspecified "others" were - in the subjective judgement of the reporter - "clearly outraged".

All of this, supposedly, because party leadership announced a change of voting strategy. Like that had never happened in an opposition or even governing party before. No indication as to whether the disagreement was over the new policy, or the fact of the change.

Of course, we're supposed to take this as a judgement on JC's leadership, rather than the rather uncontrolled reaction of a few among the PLP. What this report shows is how easy it is to write slanted news articles.

No, that's simply flat out wrong. The PLP is clearly angry about the way they were instructed one way a fortnight ago, and completely the opposite way now. The airwaves are hardly awash with MPs saying how well this has been handled.

 

[Antony]

No, that's simply flat out wrong. The PLP is clearly angry about the way they were instructed one way a fortnight ago, and completely the opposite way now. The airwaves are hardly awash with MPs saying how well this has been handled.

"Airwaves"? Rather dominated by the same organisation that issued the story you quoted. On R4 just now, they quoted only 3 sources in the review of today's papers: the Sun, the Telegraph and the Guardian. Predictably, the first 2 were making hay, while the Graun was more neutral.

Of course, there's no satisfaction to be gained by the Corbyn camp, but it's not the earthquake you seem to be suggesting.