Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

No, the quote was:
According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics report, from 2003-2007 there was an annual average of 1,025,520 household burglaries when someone was home

Yup you're right that's what was said.

 

[acbytesla]

They will almost certainly have taken a swab of Giacomo Silenzi's DNA from his inside cheek. He was the boyfriend. Key initial suspect.

They would extract DNA from the spermatozoa in the stain, assuming it was bodily fluid. A sample of the matter from Giacomo would not be required.

It is my knowledge that they didnt. I also understand that they would not be able to compell Giacomo to provide a sample w/o a warrant. At least that is what Machiavelli said.

 

[Vixen]

This post would make a lot more sense if the students were soundly convicted, currently sitting in prison, with all appeals exhausted. Acting as if the prosecution's case wasn't in shambles after Hellmann is not rational and shows an inability to grasp reality. The PIP "won." The final judgement of the highest court is the investigation was a sham. You're the one who is grasping at straws saying it was a mafia conspiracy. Maybe if they had promptly and properly analyzed the apparent semen stain on day one and matched it to Raffaele upon his arrest you would really have something to hold over our heads while the 30 year sentence actually starts ticking away. But it was decided it was more important to dig up witnesses who saw nothing immediately after the murder and get them suddenly remembering incredible key details months to years later. Give me a break.

There was an empty jar of vaseline in the murder room. Amanda told Mignini Mez was "covered in vaseline". So, the likelihood of undamaged sperm is tiny. The spermatozoa would be key in extracting useable DNA.

Lubricants like KY Jelly, baby oil, or petroleum jelly have been shown to slow down or damage sperm. - See more at: http://www.justmommies.com/getting-...gs-that-can-affect-sperm#sthash.GyW5JgJT.dpuf

 

[Grinder]

But to the best of my knowledge Giacomo did NOT provide a sample to check it against.

And then even if it wasn't Giacomo, the prosecution argument would be that Meredith wasn't a saint and it's still irrelevant.

Please Tesla if it were an unidentified donor it would be huge. If Giacomo didn't provide a sample, it would be easy to get. Just out of curiosity, what constitutes the best of your knowledge?

 

[Grinder]

The police are answerable to themselves, not PGP or PIP, or even the press. They probably did not consider it seminal fluid, assuming they ran it under ultraviolet, but as Mach says, it was almost certainly vaseline.

The so-called PGP did not oppose testing. It was Bongiorno for Raff who advised her client to keep quiet about it as Raff thought it might be found to be his.

What do the police have to do with this? It was the court that didn't have the stain tested. How would Mach know it was Vaseline? Why wouldn't the DNA in the Vaseline be just as significant as semen?

 

[bagels]

Amanda told Mignini Mez was "covered in vaseline".

It's the other way around. The police told Amanda that. But the body having Vaseline on it would have shown up in the pathologist report I imagine, so I think it was the Perugian police jumping to conclusions (a pattern).

 

[Grinder]

This post would make a lot more sense if the students were soundly convicted, currently sitting in prison, with all appeals exhausted. Acting as if the prosecution's case wasn't in shambles after Hellmann is not rational and shows an inability to grasp reality. The PIP "won." The final judgement of the highest court is the investigation was a sham. You're the one who is grasping at straws saying it was a mafia conspiracy. Maybe if they had promptly and properly analyzed the apparent semen stain on day one and matched it to Raffaele upon his arrest you would really have something to hold over our heads while the 30 year sentence actually starts ticking away. But it was decided it was more important to dig up witnesses who saw nothing immediately after the murder and get them suddenly remembering incredible key details months to years later. Give me a break.

The police didn't admit finding it at all.

The police found basically no witnesses. That was mostly left to a cub reporter.

The police interviewed Curatolo and he saw nothing. The police interviewed Quintravalle and he saw nothing. Kokomani hired a lawyer to set up a meeting with Mignini.

The police did find a witness that insisted that Le Chic was closed that night.

 

[anglolawyer]

The police are answerable to themselves, not PGP or PIP, or even the press. They probably did not consider it seminal fluid, assuming they ran it under ultraviolet, but as Mach says, it was almost certainly vaseline.

The so-called PGP did not oppose testing. It was Bongiorno for Raff who advised her client to keep quiet about it as Raff thought it might be found to be his.

No, I think the problem was he thought they would fabricate even more. Like with the fake bra clasp evidence.

 

[acbytesla]

Please Tesla if it were an unidentified donor it would be huge. If Giacomo didn't provide a sample, it would be easy to get. Just out of curiosity, what constitutes the best of your knowledge?

It wasn't on Stefanoni's DNA report. It lists samples from Amanda, Raffaele, Rudy and Meredith and that is it. Now, maybe I missed something...so best of my knowledge.

I definitely think the Defense would argue that it is huge. I do believe the prosecution would downplay it and I haven't a clue what judges like Massei or Nencini would do.

 

[TruthCalls]

Thank you so much for the effort. My math gets a different result. I am assuming that is a 5 year span 2003-07. 1/5 of that is 205,104 and 2.2% of that is 4518 per year (much higher than I would have guessed) which translates into 12 per day. This should mean that here in Seattle one should occur about once per month and that just doesn't seem right. (Using 1 million people in the greater Seattle area which is a conservative number as the metro area is closer to 3.6 million) I'd ask you to do your area and see if it makes sense to you.

I didn't say they never happened, but I did think your description was over the top. You made it seem that multiple burglaries turned into murder rapes every day. I have no objection to using the US stats even though it does appear we are a more violent country than Italy.

One aspect of what you report is that it doesn't seem (haven't read the link yet) they distinguish between home invasions and second story guys that are caught by the homeowner.

Once again thanks for the effort and I am surprised at the stats.

The table where I pulled the data states "Total average annual number of burglaries of occupied residences" so you should not be dividing by five. I believe my numbers are correct.

"You made it seem that multiple burglaries turned into murder rapes every day."

Based on these numbers there were just under 62 burglaries that resulted in sexual assault/rape every day. It's a frightfully staggering number, but that is the number (at least during the span from 03-07). And this is just the US. Imagine the global number!

Despite the numerous metrics provided in the report, they don't distinguish between door and window, nor do they distinguish between ground floor or upper floors, so that aspect will remain a mystery. Given that the lawyer's office was burgled via a second story terrace/window, it would seem climbing is not a deterrent.

BTW, it was never my intent to suggest anything was 'proven' by this stain (IF it was semen and IF it was Guede's), I was merely pointing out the argument that if it was Guede's semen it wouldn't change a thing was incorrect, at least IMHO. It goes towards proving his level of involvement and, by integrating it with other evidence, begins to make the story of the crime a little clearer. I understand you disagree, and that's fair. I'm just an IT professional and readily admit I'm an amateur in CSI matters.

BTW2, the point about whether Meredith's bra was removed before or after her death - I understand what the prosecution tried to claim, and I even understand what the Massei and Nencini courts chose to rule on, but I think the evidence proves otherwise. She couldn't have aspirated blood droplets onto her bare skin if she was dead, so I think it's clear the bra was fully removed (from her breasts, not necessarily from her body) while she was still alive. And since her bra was heavily soaked in blood it suggests it was in place covering her breasts when the initial stab wounds were inflicted. Since I believe removal of the bra was an active part of the sexual assault and not some staging, as the prosecution claimed, and since Guede is the only one who left significant forensic evidence of committing the assault, I think this also goes a long way to showing he committed the entire crime. My personal theory is Meredith was alive but completely incapacitated when Guede dragged her by her bra out of the pool of blood. In doing so he tore the strap apart.

And yes, none of this proves a lone attacker. However, I believe the more you can show one person committed all the key elements of the attack, the more you can draw no other conclusion. At some point, trying to factor in a second assailant becomes more an effort to appease an unfounded theory than represent credible crime scene analysis.

 

[Samson]

No, I think the problem was he thought they would fabricate even more. Like with the fake bra clasp evidence.

Damn right. You know you never touched the bra and the knife never left the apartment. You know a great deal about yourself, but nothing about the system taken straight from Kafka.

 

[Vixen]

No, I think the problem was he thought they would fabricate even more. Like with the fake bra clasp evidence.

"He would say that, wouldn't he?" ~ Mandy Rice-Davies.

 

[Vixen]

The table where I pulled the data states "Total average annual number of burglaries of occupied residences" so you should not be dividing by five. I believe my numbers are correct.

"You made it seem that multiple burglaries turned into murder rapes every day."

Based on these numbers there were just under 62 burglaries that resulted in sexual assault/rape every day. It's a frightfully staggering number, but that is the number (at least during the span from 03-07). And this is just the US. Imagine the global number!

Despite the numerous metrics provided in the report, they don't distinguish between door and window, nor do they distinguish between ground floor or upper floors, so that aspect will remain a mystery. Given that the lawyer's office was burgled via a second story terrace/window, it would seem climbing is not a deterrent.

BTW, it was never my intent to suggest anything was 'proven' by this stain (IF it was semen and IF it was Guede's), I was merely pointing out the argument that if it was Guede's semen it wouldn't change a thing was incorrect, at least IMHO. It goes towards proving his level of involvement and, by integrating it with other evidence, begins to make the story of the crime a little clearer. I understand you disagree, and that's fair. I'm just an IT professional and readily admit I'm an amateur in CSI matters.

BTW2, the point about whether Meredith's bra was removed before or after her death - I understand what the prosecution tried to claim, and I even understand what the Massei and Nencini courts chose to rule on, but I think the evidence proves otherwise. She couldn't have aspirated blood droplets onto her bare skin if she was dead, so I think it's clear the bra was fully removed (from her breasts, not necessarily from her body) while she was still alive. And since her bra was heavily soaked in blood it suggests it was in place covering her breasts when the initial stab wounds were inflicted. Since I believe removal of the bra was an active part of the sexual assault and not some staging, as the prosecution claimed, and since Guede is the only one who left significant forensic evidence of committing the assault, I think this also goes a long way to showing he committed the entire crime. My personal theory is Meredith was alive but completely incapacitated when Guede dragged her by her bra out of the pool of blood. In doing so he tore the strap apart.

And yes, none of this proves a lone attacker. However, I believe the more you can show one person committed all the key elements of the attack, the more you can draw no other conclusion. At some point, trying to factor in a second assailant becomes more an effort to appease an unfounded theory than represent credible crime scene analysis.

Forensic police and the judges who tried the merits hearing, i.e., the ones who heard, saw and assessed all of the evidence in front of them, do not support your view. The idea the police (literally composed of thousands of dedicated, educated, ethical and decent people) set out to frame a couple of nonentities is ludicrous.

 

[Vixen]

Damn right. You know you never touched the bra and the knife never left the apartment. You know a great deal about yourself, but nothing about the system taken straight from Kafka.

You've read Kafka? Citation please, as I am skeptical.

Managed to find the citation of the argument you claimed to have with me on another site?

Your silence will be taken as evidence you made it up.

 

[Samson]

You've read Kafka? Citation please, as I am skeptical.

Managed to find the citation of the argument you claimed to have with me on another site?

Your silence will be taken as evidence you made it up.

I read the Trial, Metamorphosis and the rest of those short stories, the unfinished The Castle. In English translation.

How do I cite proof of any of that?

 

[Ken Dine]

How many more times is this going to be brought up?

'Guilters' are obsessive, so they'll bring up their same uber nonsense until their physical bodies finally wear down to silence them, and some of them may even have "AMANDA is GUILTY" engraved on their tombstones.

Mental illness knows no bounds (other than death!)

A fluid stain was found under a sex attack victim. Any competent police team would have it tested to determine A) If it is bodily fluid and B) If so, can a DNA profile be obtained from the sample.

It has nothing to do with whether the defence wanted it tested or not. The same can be said about the knife, why wasn't the handle dismantled and checked for blood?

Very TRUE.

Anyone would think the police and prosecution didn't want to find out the results in case it put a spanner in the works of their rock solid case.

American translation:

Anyone would think the police and prosecution didn't want to find out the results in case it put a WRENCH in the works of their rock solid case.

 

[Samson]

I only post on this and IA. On IA I questioned whether you still believe in AK guilt because I am sure you are clever enough to know this is not correct. I certainly understand how you can start with an open mind, because I did, and was deeply puzzled by the certainty of the guilt believers. They made me dig deep, first to understand the facts of the case, and then to understand anyone not seeing the facts. The latter is still an unsolved riddle for me, but I do not count you amongst those.

 

[bagels]

You've read Kafka? Citation please, as I am skeptical.

They should hook Amanda up to a machine that needles into her back "True Justice for Meredith Kercher" as she slowly dies.

 

[Vixen]

I read the Trial, Metamorphosis and the rest of those short stories, the unfinished The Castle. In English translation.

How do I cite proof of any of that?

You don't need to. Your paranoical theories about the case could correctly be called kafkaesque. "The police were out to get the kids (except Rudy, who they got right)".

But without Kafka's quality of writing.

 

[Vixen]

They should hook Amanda up to a machine that needles into her back "True Justice for Meredith Kercher" as she slowly dies.

You're thinking of Edgar Allen Poe.