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Presidential Primaries 2016

He, in fact, helped to ensure that **** happens:

Bush also drastically expanded gun rights during his tenure as governor, signing the infamous Stand Your Ground law that police used to explain why they didn’t initially charge George Zimmerman for the murder of teenager Trayvon Martin. A study showed that gun violence rates rose in Florida in the wake of the Stand Your Ground law even as violent crime rates dropped. Guns now account for 75 percent of all murders in the state, up from 56 percent in 2000.
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John Bush is not qualified for the job.
 
Trebuchet said:
I caught a couple minutes of E. Warren on a Sunday talk show earlier. I really wish she was running instead of Hillary.
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She's been my first choice for at least a couple of years. I'll be satisfied with Sanders, but I would have preferred Warren, even though I think she is more effective (currently) in the Senate.
 
Trakar said:
She's been my first choice for at least a couple of years. I'll be satisfied with Sanders, but I would have preferred Warren, even though I think she is more effective (currently) in the Senate.
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That's a valid point. If a Democrat is elected, I hope they don't make one of Obama's early mistakes by gutting the Senate of senior democrats.

I just saw Larry Lessig on TV as well. He's pretty much single issue, although it's an important one.
 
Trebuchet said:
That's a valid point. If a Democrat is elected, I hope they don't make one of Obama's early mistakes by gutting the Senate of senior democrats.

I just saw Larry Lessig on TV as well. He's pretty much single issue, although it's an important one.
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Unfortunately as mentioned in another thread, media is largely ignoring him and he isn't being put on national polls and the DNC requires 1% in 3 national polls prior to the debate to participate. So most of the nation won't know who he is let alone get to hear him debate about that important issue.
 
Trebuchet said:
That's a valid point. If a Democrat is elected, I hope they don't make one of Obama's early mistakes by gutting the Senate of senior democrats.

I just saw Larry Lessig on TV as well. He's pretty much single issue, although it's an important one.
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Well, there is another important mistake Obama made that Sanders seems to have picked up on, and that is that once he was elected, he largely dismissed the role of the populist support he had built to get elected, when he should have capitalized upon them to keep these people pumped up to fill the House and Senate with like minded politicians to push through an agenda of change. Popular support and effort shouldn't end on election day, that's when the hard work of building the dream begins!
 
The_Animus said:
Unfortunately as mentioned in another thread, media is largely ignoring him and he isn't being put on national polls and the DNC requires 1% in 3 national polls prior to the debate to participate. So most of the nation won't know who he is let alone get to hear him debate about that important issue.
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Except that it is an issue which Sanders supports and promotes as well.
 
Trakar said:
Well, there is another important mistake Obama made that Sanders seems to have picked up on, and that is that once he was elected, he largely dismissed the role of the populist support he had built to get elected, when he should have capitalized upon them to keep these people pumped up to fill the House and Senate with like minded politicians to push through an agenda of change. Popular support and effort shouldn't end on election day, that's when the hard work of building the dream begins!
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^^^ THIS!^^^

I had this exact conversation last night with a group of friends, all Sanders supporters by the way. Sanders will not make this mistake, we argued!
 
Trakar said:
Well, there is another important mistake Obama made that Sanders seems to have picked up on, and that is that once he was elected, he largely dismissed the role of the populist support he had built to get elected, when he should have capitalized upon them to keep these people pumped up to fill the House and Senate with like minded politicians to push through an agenda of change. Popular support and effort shouldn't end on election day, that's when the hard work of building the dream begins!
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I suspect there is little evidence for your cause and effect assertions here.
 
Trakar said:
Well, there is another important mistake Obama made that Sanders seems to have picked up on, and that is that once he was elected, he largely dismissed the role of the populist support he had built to get elected, when he should have capitalized upon them to keep these people pumped up to fill the House and Senate with like minded politicians to push through an agenda of change. Popular support and effort shouldn't end on election day, that's when the hard work of building the dream begins!
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I agree with this, and I think an important component to consider is probably Obama's most tangible mistake -- trying to cooperate with and failing to stand in stark opposition to congressional Republicans. They made it clear on Day 1 that their one and only mission was to torpedo his presidency. He should have gone into a fighting crouch right away. The Democratic base just might have been motivated enough to show up to the polls in 2010 and save the Congress and Obama's broader agenda. Coupled with this was his inexplicable surrender of initiative on healthcare to Max Baucus and other dilatory Democrats. All of this was very demotivating in the face of the populist teabagger movement on the other side.
 
hgc said:
I agree with this, and I think an important component to consider is probably Obama's most tangible mistake -- trying to cooperate with and failing to stand in stark opposition to congressional Republicans. .
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Agreed, its a lesson for the next socialist democrat, no compromise, no excuses. Just don't cry when we get to do it. ;)
 
hgc said:
I agree with this, and I think an important component to consider is probably Obama's most tangible mistake -- trying to cooperate with and failing to stand in stark opposition to congressional Republicans. They made it clear on Day 1 that their one and only mission was to torpedo his presidency. He should have gone into a fighting crouch right away. The Democratic base just might have been motivated enough to show up to the polls in 2010 and save the Congress and Obama's broader agenda. Coupled with this was his inexplicable surrender of initiative on healthcare to Max Baucus and other dilatory Democrats. All of this was very demotivating in the face of the populist teabagger movement on the other side.
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This presumes anything Obama would have done could have made a difference. I think it ignores the fact the Democrats win national elections but gerrymandering ensures the Congress does not respond easily to public pressure.

And when it comes to the Senate, red states represent a smaller population than blue states.

From 2005: GOP Senate IS THE MINORITY! Get it STRAIGHT!
According to the Census Bureau's July 2004 population estimates, the 44 Democratic senators represent 148,026,027 people; the 55 Republican senators 144,765,157. Vermont's Jim Jeffords, an independent who usually votes with the Democrats, represents 310,697.
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What the Democrats need to do is change how the population is represented. There's not good evidence public pressure on the Congress is going to make a significant difference. The GOP has more deep pocket funding sources and they've successfully manipulated the gerrymandering of a lot of the Congressional districts.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
What the Democrats need to do is change how the population is represented. There's not good evidence public pressure on the Congress is going to make a significant difference. The GOP has more deep pocket funding sources and they've successfully manipulated the gerrymandering of a lot of the Congressional districts.
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It still won't matter, your low information voters won't show up to vote. It will always be that those who pay will always be the informed ones paying attention.
 
logger said:
It still won't matter, your low information voters won't show up to vote. It will always be that those who pay will always be the informed ones paying attention.
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What does this have to do with my post which was replying to the claim Obama could have kept the base motivated after he was elected to get more done.

And BS it wouldn't matter. If not for the gerrymandering and disproportionate representation in the Senate the Pubbies would not be a majority in Congress.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This presumes anything Obama would have done could have made a difference. I think it ignores the fact the Democrats win national elections but gerrymandering ensures the Congress does not respond easily to public pressure.

And when it comes to the Senate, red states represent a smaller population than blue states.
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You mean the gerrymandering that happened after the Dems lost all those state legislatures in the 2010 Republican wave? That's the same 2010 I'm talking about. The Dems certainly showed in 2006 that they can motivate the base to come out to vote in a midterm election. That should have been what Obama had his eye on in 2009 and 2010 -- holding on to the majorities gained in 2006. Instead he was busy seeking accommodation with Teapublicans, their bait-and-switch "moderates" Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, and Democrats who were seeking every avenue to undermine the motivating interests of the Dem base, like Blanche Lincoln, Ben Johnson and the ever sniveling Lieberman. He should have employed bare-knuckled arm-twisting (like Republicans do) on congressional Dems who kept undermining his initiatives (recovery investment bill, healthcare) and appealed to public directly to support the agenda they elected him for. He failed on all these fronts. He's a strong campaigner who broke tackles running all over the defense to win the 2008 election, but mistakenly thought he had scored a touchdown. What happened instead is that he fumbled the ball short of the goal line. It was only by the skin of his chattering teeth that the ACA passed at all.
 
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