Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

Bruno and Matasca confirm as a settled legal fact there was more than one perpetrator. Res judicata.

Don't you think it odd Raff and Amanda have never started a campaign to "Find the Real Killers"?

Not at all. What a bizarre thing to say.

 

[Vixen]

I recall that finger prints not matched were also found. The investigation was botched as the ISC has pointed out.

You can only match fingerprints if you have a set to match it to.

One of the absurd complaints of the defense was that Stefanoni had Raff's DNA to match it to. Der!

 

[Vixen]

Not at all. What a bizarre thing to say.

Why not? That's what Katie and Gerry McCann have done.

 

[Kauffer]

Why not? That's what Katie and Gerry McCann have done.

Excuse me but the McCann's daughter's kidnapper has never been found. Nobody has been put on trial. There is no match between the two cases. Guede has been convicted. Everyone except you, your friends and and a couple of Italians realise he's the sole killer, yet because A and R aren't personally looking for another one, who does not exist, you think this is suspicious. Incredible!

 

[Vixen]

Excuse me but the McCann's daughter's kidnapper has never been found. Nobody has been put on trial. There is no match between the two cases. Guede has been convicted. Everyone except you, your friends and and a couple of Italians realise he's the sole killer, yet because A and R aren't personally looking for another one, who does not exist, you think this is suspicious. Incredible!

And Mignini and Lalli, and Matteini and Micheli and Massei and Nencini, and Bruno and Marasca.

In fact, you're the minority view.

 

[Grinder]

Vixen - one huge problem is star witness Curatolo - they were in the plaza during your attack. Second problem - there were no early reports that Amanda was leaving when Popovic dropped by. Third problem - If they had this all planned out why didn't they put The Deluge on to cover over 5 hours.

There are many more...

How does the car breakdown figure in your thinking?

Btw, I do think Koko was there but as part of the crime not a witness.

 

[Grinder]

You can only match fingerprints if you have a set to match it to.

One of the absurd complaints of the defense was that Stefanoni had Raff's DNA to match it to. Der!

Well a better way to do DNA especially LCN would be for the technician producing the DNA chart not to know any of the DNA's of suspects. Then after they have lifted the DNA print others can see if they find a match in the system.

 

[anglolawyer]

Rudy was hanging around the cottage and basket ball court, as seen on cctv. With no-one around he went to get a kebab and came back later.

In the meantime circa 8:45 Amanda replies to the text from Patrick, which she deletes, sent circa 8:17. The sms ping is near the cottage.

Popovic claims to have seen her at Raff's circa 8:40. Early reports had Amanda "just on her way out" which changed in court to her being on her pc and Raff in the loo.

Papa Raff rang 8:42 and claims Amanda was standing next to Raff. He later claims Raff spoke of having eaten and dealing with a leaky pipe under the sink whilst washing up. My view is, Papa Raff is not a reliable witness, like Amanda Mom Edda, who seem very keen to cover up for their kids at all costs.

At circa 8:45 Amanda and Raff both turned off their cellphones.

Later, Amanda could not remember if she ate before or during Amelie and claimed to have eaten circa 11:30.

It is very clear that the time of 8:40 to circa 9:20 is key to events that unfolded.

Mez made her way home circa 9:00. Cctv camera catches a figure
matching Rudy's description and clothing seeming to follow either Mez or Amanda in the front door.

IMV Kokomani's claims contain grains of truth, as well as Amanda's testimony of seeing Rudy (although she substitutes Patrick, cf Bruno-Marasca) at the basketball court. I believe Rudy, Amanda and Raff did lay in wait for Mez, with phones off and Amelie conveniently running in the background as their alibi.

IMV it happened as PM Mignini said. The three were bored and restless and planned a vampire-slaying party, with Mez as the victim. Mez got irate as she was tired out and wanted to study and have an early night.

Rudy wanted money for drugs and Amanda ripped €300 off Mez, so they could all get high. Kokomani and A N Other may also have been present initially. A dark car was independently seen in the drive which could match Raff's. The rent money in cash in Amanda's room remained untouched and Amanda failed to report this, despite reporting a burglary via Raff later.

Rudy claims Mez called Amanda a "drugged up tart" which has a ring of truth.

Amanda resented Mez, as the English can be frightfully haughty, and no doubt Mez was wary of her and the unwelcome sight of Rudy.

Using Mez' irritation as a pretext, the three of them cruelly tortured her in her room, as set out by pathologist Lalli. Amanda and Raff confirmed they were on drugs that evening, with each saying they'd never take drugs again. Mez was found to have a significant amount of alcohol in her system, so may have been forced to drink with her attackers, perhaps with the aim of seduction.

Rudy held Mez arms behind her back so roughly, hideous bruises were found on her elbows and her shoulder joint twisted to render her right arm useless. Amanda confronted her to her face, roughly covering Mez' mouth with her hand. When Mez screamed, she was so angry, she plunged a large knife in her neck as savagely as she could and tried to strangle her over her wound. Raff held one of his flick knives under Mez' chin and pulled her hair back. This enabled Rudy to freely assault Mez. As Amanda stabbed her from one side, Raff stabbed her from the other. This is widely depicted in vampire slaying manga.

When they saw what they had done, all three fled.

Rudy fled home. Raff and Amanda hovered around the piazza, and as witnessed by Curatalo, watching and waiting to see if Mez' scream had alerted anyone.


When they returned perhaps a couple of hours later, it was then Amanda saw the front door swinging open.

Whilst Rudy changed his pants and went to a nightclub disco, Amanda and Raff placed Mez' body on a sheet and moved her away from the wardrobe, perhaps with the intention of opening the door and placing her in it, although police claimed it was so the body could not be seen from the carpark (Richard Owen, TIMES).

Mez' jeans were pulled off. Raff told police she was wearing her ex-English boyfriend's jeans that day. They were not inside out. Her sweater was pulled off and her t-shirt pulled up. Her bra was ripped off, police believe with a sharp knife. Clothes cutting has a fetishtic aspect to the murder. Raff is a knife fetishist. His DNA was found on the braclasp, and Rudy's and Amanda's on the bra fabric. Amanda claimed she might have borrowed it.

Amanda lost an earring. She had several on each earlobe. She brought her lamp in from her room as "Mez lamp was dim" (as Rudy described it to police) to search for the missing item. The lamp was wiped clean of fingerprints, so it's likely all other areas pertaining to the pair were, too. The pair hatched a plot to leave obvious traces of Rudy there. A ladies size 37 footprint in blood was overlooked by the pair, as was a bloody footprint matching Raff's in Amanda's room.

They missed several footprints in the hall, which was a terracota colour. They overlooked Raff's footprint on the bathmat. Police believed Raff had a thorough shower there.

The pair staged a burglary, not realising it's actually quite a common ruse, as is pointing the finger at someone else.

Random bits of paper were scattered around to authenticate the scene, one of which had Amanda's footprint. A shard of glass from Filomena's room was found in Mez' room. Mixed Amanda and Mez DNA was found in Filomena's room, and no DNA at all of Rudy's. Bits of paper were on top of the duvet. It seems unlikely Rudy scattered it.

Next morning, the pair were waiting for the washing machine cycle to finish before going to Gubbio to let Filomena come home to find the body, when cops arrived before they had a chance to do their finishing touches. The lamp was still on the floor, much to Amanda's great embarrassment.

She did not list it as missing.

Amanda and Raff were anxious to show Napoleoni Rudy's kebab remains in the loo when she arrived.

They concocted a story about Amanda popping by to get clothes and shower to explain ringing Filomena from Raff's address and as a natural extension of being there all night.

That's my POV anyway. We won't ever hear another peek from Rudy as like Aviello and Kokomani, allegedly, he's probably been promised €100K to keep schtum. (Wild conjecture, here.)

Stunning. There is a classic work of fantasy drama in here somewhere. Couple of small things before this goes to repertory:

1 Amanda was not ready to go out when Popovic called round. On the contrary, she invited her inside. That comes from uncontradicted evidence rather than news reports from a source you have already been obliged to agree is only as reliable as his sources.

2 you have the scream about two hours before Nara heard it - can you fix that please with a little scene-shifting?

3 as well as missing the footprint, they also pointed it out to the people they believed they had called to the scene. Kindly iron that out, will you?

Not intended as a comprehensive list of your blunders.

 

[anglolawyer]

Vixen - one huge problem is star witness Curatolo - they were in the plaza during your attack. Second problem - there were no early reports that Amanda was leaving when Popovic dropped by. Third problem - If they had this all planned out why didn't they put The Deluge on to cover over 5 hours.

There are many more...

How does the car breakdown figure in your thinking?

Btw, I do think Koko was there but as part of the crime not a witness.

This is every bit as nutty as Vixen's nonsense.

 

[Grinder]

This is every bit as nutty as Vixen's nonsense.

And as nutty as you saying Massei agreed there weren't multiple attackers.

ETA - In fact, putting together the elements mentioned above - including, of course, the forensic observations - it is considered that the injuries and the violence were the result of an action of several people. - Massei

 

[Kauffer]

Vixen - one huge problem is star witness Curatolo - they were in the plaza during your attack. Second problem - there were no early reports that Amanda was leaving when Popovic dropped by. Third problem - If they had this all planned out why didn't they put The Deluge on to cover over 5 hours.

There are many more...

How does the car breakdown figure in your thinking?

Btw,I do think Koko was there but as part of the crime not a witness.

Why? What is the evidence for this?

 

[Kauffer]

And Mignini and Lalli, and Matteini and Micheli and Massei and Nencini, and Bruno and Marasca.

In fact, you're the minority view.

Out if your 8, three are not for guilty. So, you've got 5 Italians for guilt. Wow.. Hats off.

ETA. Actually, that's not quite right. Matteini and Micheli were not convicting judges - so you have 3 for guilt, 3 don't knows (though Lalli would likely be PI) and 2 NG.

 

[anglolawyer]

And as nutty as you saying Massei agreed there weren't multiple attackers.

ETA - In fact, putting together the elements mentioned above - including, of course, the forensic observations - it is considered that the injuries and the violence were the result of an action of several people. - Massei

No, not as nutty. Had Massei had regard only to the forensic evidence (which is the point I was making in reply to the one Vixen was making) he would not have been able to exclude the possibility of a single attacker. He said so himself in plain words which I quoted. Kokomani's story OTOH is utterly ridiculous and there is not a shred of evidence to prove that he was present or that he knew Guede but, if you want to believe kooky things that are entirely without foundation you will certainly be in good company on this thread.

 

[Vixen]

Out if your 8, three are not for guilty. So, you've got 5 Italians for guilt. Wow.. Hats off.

ETA. Actually, that's not quite right. Matteini and Micheli were not convicting judges - so you have 3 for guilt, 3 don't knows (though Lalli would likely be PI) and 2 NG.

We were not talking about convicting judges, we were talking about judges "who ruled there was more than one attacker". In fact, Micheli said Rudy was only a bit-part accessory and named Amanda and Raff as the co-killers. Massei thought Rudy the lead killer, with Amanda dealing the fatal blow. Massei having heard all of the expert witnesses, accepted there were multiple attackers.

Your maths is terrible. None of those named said, "single attacker".

 

[Vixen]

No, not as nutty. Had Massei had regard only to the forensic evidence (which is the point I was making in reply Vixen was making) he would not have been able to exclude the possibility of a single attacker. He said so himself in plain words which I quoted. Kokomani's story OTOH is utterly ridiculous and there is not a shred of evidence to prove that he was present or that he knew Guede but, if you want to believe kooky things that are entirely without foundation you will certainly be in good company on this thread.

You are wrong. Cctv evidence and the location of the bins factually put Kokomani in the vicinity of the crime. Kokomani knew Rudy from having worked together on Raff's adopted father's farm.

 

[Kauffer]

We were not talking about convicting judges, we were talking about judges "who ruled there was more than one attacker". In fact, Micheli said Rudy was only a bit-part accessory and named Amanda and Raff as the co-killers. Massei thought Rudy the lead killer, with Amanda dealing the fatal blow. Massei having heard all of the expert witnesses, accepted there were multiple attackers.

Your maths is terrible. None of those named said, "single attacker".

My maths is fine. I don't think anyone really believes there was more than one attacker. Lalli didn't. Bruno and Marasca didn't - not really.

 

[Vixen]

Well a better way to do DNA especially LCN would be for the technician producing the DNA chart not to know any of the DNA's of suspects. Then after they have lifted the DNA print others can see if they find a match in the system.

That's the scientific method. Stefanoni confirmed the test result was obtained first, and only then was it compared.

The chances of having achieved that result at random is >3bn to 1 against.

You have a 14m to 1 against chance of winning the jackpot lottery in the UK on a single ticket.

 

[LondonJohn]

"Stefanoni confirmed"..... hehehehehehehehe.......HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

Not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni was caught in several serious, provable lies in respect of her excrable work in this case. It's therefore wholly reasonable to conclude that her version of the "truth" is not worth the soiled napkin it's written on.

 

[Strozzi]

. . .
_____

The key issue is the nature of Mez' injuries. Her arms were wrenched behind her, as evidenced from autopsy injuries.

Yes, it fits with what I wrote. During the struggle, Rudi, behind her, grabbed/wrenched her arms from behind.

Rudy charged at her and she turned or twisted to get away, resulting in him being behind her. He held her from behind, putting his knife to the side of her neck. The knife scraped/cut (sliced) her neck (the first cut). They struggled and Rudy again side-sliced her neck, and then stabbed her throat - the mortal stab. He constrained and struggled with her as she went to the floor, still struggling, bleeding profusely, in terror, flailing as best she could. She never fought him from the front, face to face - she was never in position to scratch or claw him, thus no evidence (skin) was under her nails.

He evidently took her by surprise. It could have been 2 seconds from the time he charged with knife in hand through the doorway to when he grabbed her and she, startled, tried to twist away. Meredith did not have a headstart to pull out furniture (chair, lamp, nightstand) to keep him back or to grab objects (book, purse) to throw at him. Total surprise, She never had a chance to go into her Bruce Lee stance.

All her minor injuries - bruises, nicks, cuts, scrapes - are consistent with her twisting, resisting, flailing struggle as he attempted to contain her to the floor.

 

[anglolawyer]

You are wrong. Cctv evidence and the location of the bins factually put Kokomani in the vicinity of the crime. Kokomani knew Rudy from having worked together on Raff's adopted father's farm.

What CCTV evidence would that be? Kokomani did not know Rudy. He only 'recognised' the black man in the obviously fictitious encounter when he saw his picture in the paper. Your reference to the bins is not self-explanatory but I suspect it's as much nonsense as the rest of your post.