Corbyn did win, what's next?

[Giz]

People I know well went on holiday in Spain during the Franco regime, or in Portugal under Salazar. Didn't make them fascists.

The capitalist democracy is fine. The illegal settlement of usurped and illegally annexed land is not. You can be both, you know.

Did they go to South Africa during apartheid?

Do they support boycotting Israel?


Just trying to see the scale... if Israel is worse than Salazar, worse than Franco, worse than Ceausescu, worse than Hungary being crushed in 56 or Czechs the decade after, worse than the Berlin Wall and checkpoint Charlie, worse than the gulag archipelago.

Corbyn certainly thinks that Israel is worse than the gulags!

 

[Ziggurat]

How many of his supporters want the UK to exit NATO?

 

[Giz]

How many of his supporters want the UK to exit NATO?

And join the Warsaw Pact?

 

[Craig B]

Corbyn certainly thinks that Israel is worse than the gulags!

Rubbish. He displays no sign of thinking anything of the kind. The Zionist regime is usurping and annexing land. On that land they establish a democratic capitalist regime. That makes them like any other democratic capitalist state? Nonsense.

But if you have evidence that Corbyn prefers Stalinist slave labour camps to Israel, please specify why.

 

[Giz]

Rubbish. He displays no sign of thinking anything of the kind. The Zionist regime is usurping and annexing land. On that land they establish a democratic capitalist regime. That makes them like any other democratic capitalist state? Nonsense.

But if you have evidence that Corbyn prefers Stalinist slave labour camps to Israel, please specify why.

Because he went on a romantic vacation to land controlled by the USSR. But he supports boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel.

 

[WildCat]

Why don't you put something specific in your posts?

Challenging Capitalism

Some guy named Jeremy Corbyn wrote this article, no relation at all to the Jeremy Corbyn who is the topic of this thread I'm sure. But it's probably all a bunch of lies put out by the site, jeremycorbyn.com, to discredit Jeremy Corbyn and make him look like a Marxist. But just because someone is pimping the 21st Century Marxism event at the Marx Memorial Library is no evidence whatsoever they support Marxism!

 

[dudalb]

This thread has become why I hate "MIckey Mouse Voters".
If you don't know, that is a term in the US for people who are such blind supporters of a polticial party, that if that party nominates Mickey Mouse to be it's leader, they will support him.
And I love the whole "Corbyn did not really mean that, and it's all lies by the evil capitalistic press anyway" routine.

 

[WildCat]

Because he went on a romantic vacation to land controlled by the USSR. But he supports boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel.

Don't forget his "friends", the genocidal internationally recognized terrorist group Hamas.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

When banks lend money.

Was that entertaining?

So, the "natural" WildCat way to increase the money supply is by, for example, mortgage lending... including sub-prime lending? Consumer credit? That ought to get infrastructure investments going! Yeah, that was entertaining. Seems you have missed quite a bit of economic history as well (were you perhaps asleep during lectures?)

Then what's it about?

Do tell where all this money he wants to spend will come from!

Infrastructure investment, financed by government bond issuance. Thats the normal way anyway. Whether the buyer of the bonds is BoE or anyone else is immaterial from an inflation standpoint in the current context.

 

[MikeG]

This thread has become why I hate "MIckey Mouse Voters".
If you don't know, that is a term in the US for people who are such blind supporters of a polticial party, that if that party nominates Mickey Mouse to be it's leader, they will support him.
And I love the whole "Corbyn did not really mean that, and it's all lies by the evil capitalistic press anyway" routine.

Yep, pretty much.

The thing with Corbyn is that he has been an MP forever, and so there are decades of accumulated quotes from him, and his voting history*, all being rifled through by Tory Central Office right now, no doubt. Their only difficulty will be in keeping him in place until the next general election. He will be such an asset for them if he makes it that far.


* He has rebelled against his party over 500 times, which is going to make it quite amusing when he expects people to follow him through the lobbies.

 

[MikeG]

.........Infrastructure investment, financed by government bond issuance. Thats the normal way anyway. Whether the buyer of the bonds is BoE or anyone else is immaterial from an inflation standpoint in the current context.

Borrowing. Just exactly what we need after finally getting the deficit under control.

 

[Rum]

The way he's talking at the moment suggests he isn't as worried about getting his own ideas through as ensuring a debate and a democratic process. Whether getting any sort of manifesto sorted out without strong leadership, which he does not seem willing (or possibly able) to exercise, will be the question. Its a very big tent he is trying to erect!

 

[Craig B]

Challenging Capitalism

Some guy named Jeremy Corbyn wrote this article, no relation at all to the Jeremy Corbyn who is the topic of this thread I'm sure. But it's probably all a bunch of lies put out by the site, jeremycorbyn.com, to discredit Jeremy Corbyn and make him look like a Marxist. But just because someone is pimping the 21st Century Marxism event at the Marx Memorial Library is no evidence whatsoever they support Marxism!

What does the article say?

And what is so objectionable about supporting Marxism? It may be wrong or not, but it is a philosophical position. Is it the same thing as supporting Stalin's slave labour camps? Does the article suggest that Corbyn supports slave labour camps?

 

[Giz]

And what is so objectionable about supporting Marxism? It may be wrong or not, but it is a philosophical position.

"Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos" - The Big Lobowski

 

[MikeG]

.......And what is so objectionable about supporting Marxism?........

It's almost like we don't have 50 years experience or more in just how bad and how wrong Marxism was.

 

[Giz]

It's almost like we don't have 50 years experience or more in just how bad and how wrong Marxism was.

It would be great if one day we can get to the same level of agreement about Marxism as Nazism.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

Borrowing. Just exactly what we need after finally getting the deficit under control.

Deficit hysteria regarding UK at the moment is, well, quite irrational. Talk about hyperinflation goes even further into sillyland.

 

[Craig B]

It's almost like we don't have 50 years experience or more in just how bad and how wrong Marxism was.

That may be experience in how mistaken it is, but it's tenets are not "bad" in the sense that those of the Nazis were bad. It may be that Marx's theories were unable to achieve his goals, but these goals were not objectionable.

 

[MikeG]

That may be experience in how mistaken it is, but it's tenets are not "bad" in the sense that those of the Nazis were bad. It may be that Marx's theories were unable to achieve his goals, but these goals were not objectionable.

I'm going to turn the world order on it's head, and declare my complete and utter agreement with every word in your post. I expect an earthquake to follow.

This post of yours sums up what I think of socialism and socialists, including Corbyn: it/they seem generally very good at identifying the problems, but really really bad at suggesting the right solutions.

 

[WildCat]

So, the "natural" WildCat way to increase the money supply is by, for example, mortgage lending... including sub-prime lending? Consumer credit? That ought to get infrastructure investments going! Yeah, that was entertaining. Seems you have missed quite a bit of economic history as well (were you perhaps asleep during lectures?)

That's a fine bunch of straw you're burning there lupus!

Tell me, in the economics classes you claim to have taken how did they tell you money was created?

Infrastructure investment,

That's an expenditure, not a source of financing.

financed by government bond issuance. Thats the normal way anyway. Whether the buyer of the bonds is BoE or anyone else is immaterial from an inflation standpoint in the current context.

Are you saying there's no limit to borrowing?