Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[JREF2010]

So about $1 million each I read today, for imprisonment of the innocent.

I wonder if Raffaeles sister will get her job back or settlement, and all the others who were "bullied" by the Perugia pack and their "recordings"....I gues they didnt have budget cuts for those wire taps.

Anyway, next up....Edgardo Giobbi is asked to take Amandas picture off his wall and put up Rudy Guede's....Rudy to be charged with blaming his crime on those found innocent can proceed with the ISC blessing.

 

[Bill Williams]

So about $1 million each I read today, for imprisonment of the innocent.

I wonder if Raffaeles sister will get her job back or settlement, and all the others who were "bullied" by the Perugia pack and their "recordings"....I gues they didnt have budget cuts for those wire taps.

Anyway, next up....Edgardo Giobbi is asked to take Amandas picture off his wall and put up Rudy Guede's....Rudy to be charged with blaming his crime on those found innocent can proceed with the ISC blessing.

Yikes. Are there links to these stories?

 

[sept79]

Actually, it was pretty much a smackdown of Stefanoni on her methods and proofs. Marasca not only cited C &V as debunking Stefanoni, but also pointed to Berti in their insistence that LCN required at least 2 and possibly 3 repeats to prove reliable. I don't have it in front of me, but I think Marasca included a comparison of the way the cabinieri methods and the way they turned over their work, as compared with Stefanoni - but I'd want to double check and read that more closely. Stefanoni got completely trashed for incomplete and invalid work product, and was especially critical of Stefanoni's assertion that the Knife MUST be the murder weapon, when it tested negative for blood, which Marasca stated flatly opposes the idea that it was used as the murder weapon.

It was a pretty stunning put down on Stefanoni, IIRC even suggesting that had Meredith's DNA actually been on the knife - but testing negative for blood - that in itself would still not necessarily be incriminating because it was in the vicinity of the students and could have been used or deposited there innocently by Meredith. The failure of Stefanoni to recognize the absence of blood on the knife was inconsistent with the theory it was the murder weapon, was considered a huge, unforgivable, inexplicable, and blameworthy blunder on the part of Stefanoni.

I don't recall if it specifically discussed suppressed results and withheld DNA data, but came pretty close, IIRC.

Wow! I didn't realize it was such a thorough rebuke of Stefanoni . . .

 

[acbytesla]

The "long shadow of uncertainty" that anglolawyer fears Marasca's report may leave is perhaps not to be ignored. Yet from this seat the principals are getting on with life..... so is it really confirmation bias to say that innocent they were and innocent they remain? Or is there some other axe being grindered to keep some other bias alive?

I think it is to be ignored. Now the hard core guilter morons will bask in the darkness. Not exactly a shock from the followers of Lord Voldemort.

But the world particularly the media as a whole are quickly moving on. They almost unanimously seem to be embracing the fact that this was all the result of incompetence. And unlike changing the story that A&R were young sex crazed killers there doesn't seem to be any momentum in moving off "its over, they're not guilty" story. And I really can't see that happening. Can you?

 

[bagels]

Yes if there is a strong ECHR ruling and it is publicized then all will as good as it gets. I was mostly disappointed that the PIP take after the ISC verdict turns out to be spin or worse and once again many of the PG points turn out to be true.

The same thing happened with Chieffi. All I heard was it was just a minor procedural matter for "further review", when the reality was it was a total and complete repudiation of Hellmann and was essentially saying no court should ever have acquitted them due to the overwhelming evidence (such as Curatolo knowing her eye color a year later, my favorite part if you haven't guessed).

 

[acbytesla]

The same thing happened with Chieffi. All I heard was it was just a minor procedural matter for "further review", when the reality was it was a total and complete repudiation of Hellmann and was essentially saying no court should ever have acquitted them due to the overwhelming evidence (such as Curatolo knowing her eye color a year later, my favorite part if you haven't guessed).

So true. Still the court ended it all. The only people who seem to care are on the Internet.

 

[Bill Williams]

I think it is to be ignored. Now the hard core guilter morons will bask in the darkness. Not exactly a shock from the followers of Lord Voldemort.

But the world particularly the media as a whole are quickly moving on. They almost unanimously seem to be embracing the fact that this was all the result of incompetence. And unlike changing the story that A&R were young sex crazed killers there doesn't seem to be any momentum in moving off "its over, they're not guilty" story. And I really can't see that happening. Can you?

What I'm finding is that it isn't happening. It isn't happening other than for people with already firm biases tweeting like crazy to Porta a Porta that some mysterious miscarriage of justice happened in the Marasca court. The other stuff, the "forte sospetto" stuff and the interpretation of that within the report, will keep us going unto the 25th continuation, but outside here..... where?

 

[bagels]

So true. Still the court ended it all. The only people who seem to care are on the Internet.

I have to admit I easily bought into that idea. Hellmann seemed so final, both in its scope and duty. The court spent a year reviewing the evidence, hearing from all the witnesses, appointed two professors to review the DNA etc. Even the US State Department considered the matter "case closed" in their leaked cables. Hellmann's final conclusion was the prosecution's case was "far from probable" and he emphasized the law "does not tolerate the conviction of the innocent." It's concise, it's sane, and most of all it's final. Amanda's nightmare saga in Italy is over, everyone can move on. Then the Cheiffi court comes along and within an hour we're back in the world of Meredith arguing with Amanda over a turd in the toilet. It's simply unbelievable.

 

[Vixen]

Bill remember just after the ISC annulment of Nencini you and other PIP were insisting that the kids were not just found not guilty but innocent?

Are we sure they say that the alibi hasn't been proven false? If they say she was definitely at the cottage during the murder, clearly her alibi is false. That raises the question what would they need to prove it false. Clearly Curatolo proves it false. Do they throw Curatolo out.

I think both sides need to admit that the Italian justice system sucks and combined with dismal police work the case remains a mystery. The PIP will maintain it was Rudy alone and at best the PGP will maintain she was involved.

They would have been better served with yet another trial or even extradition and a full hearing here. While many PIP say all that matters is that they are free, I don't agree and I doubt any of those directly affected on both sides feel good about this end.

ETA - I'd guess they would put Raf as involved because he has given Amanda an alibi that couldn't be true if he were home and she was at the cottage.

AIUI they threw Curatalo, Quintavalle and Capezelli out.

 

[Vixen]

You are consistent. Another lie, and more bizarre logic. One, no case as muddled as this "opens a window for successful litigation.
And two, they were found not guilty. Repeat after me, NOT GUILTY!

I refer you to OJ Simpson and the Goldman family.

 

[Vixen]

You've forgotten about Hellman, which found them innocent. And which Marasca did indeed reference.

If Bruno and Marasca referenced Hellmann, it would have to be within the context of Chieffi's directions when he remitted it to Nencini, Hellmann's report having been annulled.

ISC do not have the authority to reverse the Hellmann spiking.

 

[Matthew Best]

I refer you to OJ Simpson and the Goldman family.

So are the Kerchers actually planning to sue Knox and Sollecito?

 

[acbytesla]

What I'm finding is that it isn't happening. It isn't happening other than for people with already firm biases tweeting like crazy to Porta a Porta that some mysterious miscarriage of justice happened in the Marasca court. The other stuff, the "forte sospetto" stuff and the interpretation of that within the report, will keep us going unto the 25th continuation, but outside here..... where?

Exactly this thing is over except a few minor details that only us weirdos care about. I can't in a million years imagine the Kerchers wanting to venture into the Italian court system again. It has been almost 8 years of this judicial roller coaster. Who in their right mind would want to keep riding for a few more years?

The press will publish news about any new court rulings, but the public is tired of this story and so are they. The only ones who can't seem to move on are the crazies. (That includes us I'm afraid)

 

[bagels]

Exactly this thing is over except a few minor details that only us weirdos care about. I can't in a million years imagine the Kerchers wanting to venture into the Italian court system again. It has been almost 8 years of this judicial roller coaster. Who in their right mind would want to keep riding for a few more years?

The press will publish news about any new court rulings, but the public is tired of this story and so are they. The only ones who can't seem to move on are the crazies. (That includes us I'm afraid)

I'm just sticking around for the ECHR to come in and be like hey you know this is illegal right like you can't do that. And Italy will be like oops our bad we didn't know. Then the ECHR will be like it's cool no worries m8 just try to take it easy next time. (but translated into legalese)

 

[Vixen]

So are the Kerchers actually planning to sue Knox and Sollecito?

That wouldn't be something I'm privy to. However, as you know, the balance of probability in a civil court is only 51:49.

If the Bruno-Marasca report establishes legally (it matters not a jot what you or I believe) the pair were there when the murder took place, did wash off Mez' blood and did cover up for Rudy, I'd say, as a layperson, the Kerchers may have a civil case for damages.

 

[acbytesla]

I refer you to OJ Simpson and the Goldman family.

You think this is like that? More moronic logic. The Goldman family sued OJ after the criminal trial. They also had additional damning evidence that wasn't presented in the first trial.

The Kerchers already pursued their civil suit against Amanda and Raffaele and LOST. Tough if not impossible to get another bite of the apple. Even their lawyer for the last 7 years says that it's over. Oh, I forgot, being a Mensa member, you understand Italian law better than their lawyer.

Lastly, the evidence is against them.

 

[Bill Williams]

Exactly this thing is over except a few minor details that only us weirdos care about. I can't in a million years imagine the Kerchers wanting to venture into the Italian court system again. It has been almost 8 years of this judicial roller coaster. Who in their right mind would want to keep riding for a few more years?

The press will publish news about any new court rulings, but the public is tired of this story and so are they. The only ones who can't seem to move on are the crazies. (That includes us I'm afraid)

For the first time I now need to entertain the thought that Vixen, Machiavelli and Me are now on the same side of the fence, as perhaps part of a dwindling number of weirdos who even follow this - at ANY level of detail!!!!

Vixen, Machiavelli and Me - a good film title.

As for the Kerchers, I can only wish closure for them; which is sometimes impossible to achieve 100% even in less arduous odysseys than what they've been through these last 8 years.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm just sticking around for the ECHR to come in and be like hey you know this is illegal right like you can't do that. And Italy will be like oops our bad we didn't know. Then the ECHR will be like it's cool no worries m8 just try to take it easy next time. (but translated into legalese)

No, I get it. I too expect the ECHR will slap down the callunia ruling, but how long till that happens? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[bagels]

No, I get it. I too expect the ECHR will slap down the callunia ruling, but how long till that happens? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Didn't someone say it could take 7 years. That's a lot of continuations threads

 

[carbonjam72]

If Bruno and Marasca referenced Hellmann, it would have to be within the context of Chieffi's directions when he remitted it to Nencini, Hellmann's report having been annulled.

ISC do not have the authority to reverse the Hellmann spiking.

Marasca cited Hellman's acquittal to illustrate that different courts came to different conclusions, hence there had to be some element of uncertainty, as a matter of common sense.

The idea you're expressing, that Hellman was "spiked", appears to be an exaggeration you and others have magnified in your own thinking, but to which cassation does not, and did not, feel obligated to subscribe.