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Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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You have been told they were not friends. John Kercher reveals in his book, Meredith that a friend travelling back to England said Mez complained for the whole duration of the flight about Amanda's conduct. If only she had moved out FAST!

If she did move out because of her roommate's quirks it would have saved her life. None of us would be here posting about it. And today in 2015 some random girl in Seattle that none of us heard of might briefly reflect on her time abroad in Italy, where the most notable thing that happened to her was an unsettling break-in at her apartment shortly after Halloween while she was fortunately away with her boyfriend. But sadly it didn't happen that way, not in this universe at least.
 
Amanda used the literal Italian, "I WILL see you later", not the colloquial "see ya!" as we know in English. Why would she have used the more complicated word structure than, "Ciao!"? Of course the cops wanted an explanation.

Cops are not your "mates".

So just to understand - you are claiming that it is factual that **Lumumba** and Knox agreed to get together that night?
 
No one shares your opinion. Otherwise you are entitled to it. Why would I want to dissuade you from a view you, apparently sincerely, hold?

The point is, no one else does. The summary of the Marasca report in the Italian press makes no mention of what you believe it all means.

Agreed, this is not about you. It is not about your views. It is about the way this will play in Italy in the post-acquittal period.

So far it doesn't look good for the views you hold. So far it is as the press is saying, the prosecution was flawed, fueled by a rush to judgement and the tabloid excesses.

That's what it looks like if you insist this is not about you.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Bruno - chum of Bongiorno, in turn a slavish sycophant of Mr Big, Andreotti - and Marasca, have made it clear in their report that Amanda and Raff cannot be considered innocent.

Please read it, before claiming, "it's all over".

Stop appealing to the crowd. It's a logical fallacy.
 
So just to understand - you are claiming that it is factual that **Lumumba** and Knox agreed to get together that night?

I believe it was meant for Rudy, but sent by accident to Patrick. That's why she deleted it and had a major conniption when the cops retrieved the message and showed it to her.

There was more going on between Rudy and Amanda than meets the eye.
 
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The message is that you are attempting specious and silly arguments.

PS: so you suppose (you hope) your child won't grow up behaving like Amanda Knox.

Even by your standards, this is an incredibly juvenile and stupid rejoinder. You seem incapable of grasping that yours is very possibly history's worst case of projection.
 
I believe it was meant for Rudy, but sent by accident to Patrick. That's why she deleted it and had a major conniption when the cops retrieved the message and showed it to her.

There was more going on between Rudy and Amanda than meets the eye.

LOL! Okay................... you're entitled to belief I suppose.
 
I believe it was meant for Rudy, but sent by accident to Patrick. That's why she deleted it and had a major conniption when the cops retrieved the message and showed it to her.

There was more going on between Rudy and Amanda than meets the eye.

I agree and think Amanda was setting a trap for Rudy. I think the original plan was to kill Meredith and Rudy using the two knives and stage it to look like they had killed each other. This explains Rudy's testimony where he claims he struggled with the attacker and "black man found, black man guilty." But Rudy is fast on his feet and Raffaele is just some computer nerd so that part of the plan fell apart. I think this idea of mutual murder was in one of Raff's mangas. These types of ritualistic and overwrought plots are inherent in the genre, and it's simply a fact that he was looking for "new experiences."
 
You have been told they were not friends. John Kercher reveals in his book, Meredith that a friend travelling back to England said Mez complained for the whole duration of the flight about Amanda's conduct. If only she had moved out FAST!

Your covering your ears and singing, la, la, doesn't contradict this fact.

<SNIP>
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Moderated content removed.

As if John Kercher knew. What I do know for a fact is that their Italian roommates said that they got along and spent time together. Such as the two of them spent days together, tanning on the balcony, attending the chocolate festival, attending concerts etc. Then there is that tangible and electronic proof.

No Vixen, it is you that has your ears and eyes covered. And it is you that keeps transforming Meredith into a petty two faced bitch.
 
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What points of law determined by Chieffi did the Marasca report go against?

I'm reading it now, and they seemed to disapprove of Stafanoni's lab work. In particular, her insistence on non-recognized methods of analysis - regarding non-repeatable tests of low copy number DNA samples, her attribution of partial profiles which lack sufficient specificity to be counted as evidence (a very interesting point), and her dogmatic insistence that the knife was the murder weapon - even though it tested negative for blood.

Actually, it's you (possibly the defensive argument) that is dogmatic, a belief that testing negative to some tests means that it is not the murder weapon (regardless of further information).

And of course, they didn't seem to approve at all of her wearing dirty gloves to pass around the bra clasp, and found it inexplicable that she didn't retrieve the bra clasp on the first trip but instead waited 46 days after many people had trampled through the crime scene.

Chieffi's contention that 'contamination must be proven' seems to have been refuted, in favor of international scientific protocols as pointed out by C & V - for whom they had nothing but praise.

Chieffi called C&V dishonest. And that verdict is final.
The point that contamination shall be proven - at least shown to be probable - is a point of law the B&M court cannot overturn.

Alleged "international protocols" actually are non- existent. C&V cite many opinions and recommendations that don't have any status of "protocols", most of them are rules of peculiar systems and jurisdictions. But anyway a piece of evidence can't be dismissed preliminarily based on " protocols". This also belongs to the principles of the Italian system. It's true that Bruno/Marasca is idiotic beyond that. They go even further in their legal nonsense, as I said some posts ago.

Of particular interest to our conversation, in light of previous posts, is that this court found it impossible to believe that Amanda and Raf could have participated in the murder without leaving any trace of themselves in the room where the murder occurred, and stated the obvious impossibility of a 'selective clean-up' since its just impossible.

They also didn't approve of the "experts" who fried the computers with an electric shock, and destroyed potentially useful information.

Which is even more telling about how rotten and false this judgement is.
Since it's false that computer data was destroyed. This is a lie by the defence, which the court copies and pastes (among many other things) without checking the papers. Two of the three disks were recovered completely, the third had recoverable data, which Massei didn't want to recover as he considered them not interesting.

I don't see how you can interpret this judgement as a victory.

Oh, and its fairly clear that this court did not conclude Amanda and Raf were in the house, since they clearly stated that it could not be determined with tranquility that Amanda & Raf's mutual alibi were not entirely true.

And yet, as I said, the report also states that Knox's presence at the murder is a proven fact and that it's certain. It states that both before and after the statement about "tranquillizing certainty"; it even explains at length in support of their certainty.
I realize this is crazy and inconsistent. But so is the verdict.

That's the part that sticks in my throat. They couldn't determine that Amanda and Raf never left Raf's apartment, that they were just home the whole night, minding their own business. Happy as can be, until they crossed paths with 'Perugia's finest', Giobbi of the swiveling hips and psychological investigations, and the recalcitrant unrepentant criminal & media whore Giuliani Mignini.

You need to clean your mouth. Mignini never talked to the media. This is actually why the pro Knox slanderous campaign went on undisturbed. Sticking to the verdict, they stated very clearly that Knox was in the house, but also that she had Meredith's blood on her hands, and that Guede did not kill alone (and his "motive" as a lone burglar would be even less compatible than those of Knox and Solkecito).
It also calls Knox slanderous multiple times and repeats many times there is evidence against them.
Interpret all this how you want, but this is what it says.
.
ETA: the issue of motive was also fascinating. They highlighted the complete separation of Amanda & Raf from Rudy Guede, how Raf had never even known him, how there was zero communication between them, AND, how the issue of a completely irrational and missing motive in this case was fatal to a finding of guilt - because in a circumstantial case such as this, only motive can tie together the circumstantial evidence. Without motive, in a case based on circumstantial evidence, there can be no finding of guilt beyond reasonable doubt, because there's nothing tying the the purported evidence together into a coherent whole. I'm actually gaining a little bit more of an appreciation for Italian jurisprudence. But the calunnia conviction is just dumb as can be, cruel really, and ECHR will just have to explain that to you all.

No, they did not state any "complete separation" between "Knox and Sollecito" on one side and Guede the other (they rather hinted some separation between Sollecito and Knox).
Lack of mutual acquaintance between Sollecito and Guede could be an argument if one had to defend Sollecito alone. But Knox herself is a link.
Motive is something else. Also here B&M depart from jurisprudence and reason. Motive is not evidence, it's not an object actually. It's subjective. It's part of a context. It's correct that a murder has to be put into a context. But there isn't a special requirement that the judge understands the motive completely or even less that "proves" something that belongs to the subjective shpere.
 
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No, no. I didn't forget anything. He's adamant: Sollecito said that, and Zaroli remembers about that clearly, he has absolutely no doubt about that. This is Zaroli's testimony.


YEPPERS, if an Italian swears that something is true, then it must be true!

I don't usually respond to nut-job nonsense, but any claim that, "when an Italian is adamantly testifying to something, then it must be the truth of the matter," that is obviously delusional nonsense ...in light of the Knox case, rather funny, too.
:)
 
No one shares your opinion. Otherwise you are entitled to it. Why would I want to dissuade you from a view you, apparently sincerely, hold?
i

You see your problem, don't you? You just refuse to admit t is not my opinion.
This is what Cassazione 5th section wrote. Period. A fact. Something that exists itself and neutral from us.

The point is, no one else does. The summary of the Marasca report in the Italian press makes no mention of what you believe it all means.

I do not believe it means, Bill.
It is there. It is readable, on paper.

Agreed, this is not about you. It is not about your views. It is about the way this will play in Italy in the post-acquittal period.

No, on this thread I discuss about facts of the case; things that belong directly to the case, that may affect evidence of innocence or guilt; like about Amanda Knox, or about the content of a court report.
 
Even by your standards, this is an incredibly juvenile and stupid rejoinder. You seem incapable of grasping that yours is very possibly history's worst case of projection.

Do you seriously believe I lied because I didn't put "at" before "shot"? You believe that even though making no sense and with no proof?

I noted in the past you as a poster with particularly extreme unbalance and focus on ad hominem attacks.
 
As if John Kercher knew. What I do know for a fact is that their Italian roommates said that they got along and spent time together. Such as the two of them spent days together, tanning on the balcony, attending the chocolate festival, attending concerts etc. Then there is that tangible and electronic proof.

No Vixen, it is you that has your ears and eyes covered. And it is you that keeps transforming Meredith into a petty two faced bitch.

And also, evidence that their friendship cooled down.
 
You are hilarious.

The misunderstanding here directly led to Amanda being declared a suspect. This could only have happened with Anna Donnino **lying** about what see you later means.

And this was the first shot in saying Amanda lied about Lumumba's involvement. For pete's sake do you ever think things through?

Bill, what lead Amanda Knox to become a suspect, is that she portrayed herself walking at home bringing the murderer with her, a black man she knew, after meeting him in Piazza Grimana that night, that they wanted to have fun, and that she was in the kitchen covering her ears while her companion raped and killed her roomate. Subsequently, she added that she had also memories of blood on her boyfriend's hand.
While she was saying this, in another room her boyfriend was admitting to having told lies on her girlfriend's request.
Until that point, btw, Amanda Knox had maintanied a previous unrealistic, inconsistent shower-mop story about the morning of Nov. 2.


the sms text: Knox did not write "see you later", she wrote "ci vediamo più tardi".
Meanwhile, in the other room her boyfriend was withdrawing her alibi.
The police understood the "see you later" excuse from Knox, they understood it was possible; but as Vixen says, police are not your mates. You may have an explanation, that's not enough to clear suspicion.
 
I believe it was meant for Rudy, but sent by accident to Patrick. That's why she deleted it and had a major conniption when the cops retrieved the message and showed it to her.

There was more going on between Rudy and Amanda than meets the eye.

Except Guede was not even in her phone?
 
You have been told they were not friends. John Kercher reveals in his book, Meredith that a friend travelling back to England said Mez complained for the whole duration of the flight about Amanda's conduct. If only she had moved out FAST!

Your covering your ears and singing, la, la, doesn't contradict this fact.

BTW how's the wild swinging and porn movies going? Wife found out, yet?

As if John Kercher knew. What I do know for a fact is that their Italian roommates said that they got along and spent time together. Such as the two of them spent days together, tanning on the balcony, attending the chocolate festival, attending concerts etc. Then there is that tangible and electronic proof.

No Vixen, it is you that has your ears and eyes covered. And it is you that keeps transforming Meredith into a petty two faced bitch.

You have to be really careful about after the fact statements. John Kercher things that Amanda is some sex crazed evil woman who murdered his saintly virginal daughter, no matter what the evidence. Of course he cannot accept that they were friends.
 
You have to be really careful about after the fact statements. John Kercher things that Amanda is some sex crazed evil woman who murdered his saintly virginal daughter, no matter what the evidence. Of course he cannot accept that they were friends.

No, there are some things that are facts.

While it may be true that Meredith made a few negative comments about Amanda to the British girls, there is no evidence that she complained to her Italian roommates about Amanda other than the issue with the toilet brush. It is also a fact that Amanda and Meredith appeared to get along to the Italian girls.

There are no reports of loud arguments ever. And most importantly, there is no evidence that AMANDA didn't like Meredith. NONE.

There is also no motive for Raffaele. There is also, no real connection to Rudy.

Those are FACTS.
 
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