Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[moije2]

Blaming the victim?

There's not a woman in the world whose first thought wouldn't be "period?" if there's a spot of blood in the bathroom she shares with another woman. When Amanda thought "period?" she of course didn't know there was a victim, because she didn't know there'd been a murder.

This is your evidence that an innocent woman was acting with malice? Because she wondered if her housemate might have unknowingly left menstrual blood behind?

I guess if she'd actually killed Meredith, it would be a pretty awful thing to say -- but since we know she didn't have anything to do with what happened to Meredith, it's just a normal reaction. And to this day she hasn't, as far as I know, ever had a bad word to say about Meredith or anybody else.

What you don't understand Kwill is that no self respecting Italian woman would dare mention the evil menses. Certainly not to an Italian police officer. No matter what. She wouldn't even think it. That would fail the "model of grace" standard. What's more, it would be a clear indicator of guilt and/or that she was blaming the victim. Hey, remember that word? Indicator? ROFLMAO.

Frustration must be setting in hard. Don't wait long, accusations of racism are about to spew forth. After all it is an evil cold icy whoring amerikanisch druggie that we are defending.

Seriously, I think this is that last burst of comedy before everyone goes home and shakes their head over the sulliness that we have all exposed ourselves to. Sometimes I think the ISC and its various defenders are paid shills for JREF/IS in order to keep this blog going.

 

[Bill Williams]

You should decide whether it's me making things up, or if it's news reports.
There is news coverage from both 2011 and 2014 (including interview of Federico). There is also picture and text of police papers. Names of Perugian attorneys as well.

http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/meredith-condannato-pusher-che-avrebbe-rifornito-cocaina-amanda-knox

http://www.today.it/cronaca/amanda-knox-sesso-spacciatore.html

There is even the admission of this by some pro-Knox supporters...

Yet another Machiavelli lie.

Machiavelli said he does not read news reports. That was in response to him being told that his latest PR-guilt-campaign is totally contradicted by anything written in the Italian language in the Italian press. "I don't read news pieces," or words to that effect.

ETA - those pieces were from police reports - the very same police (I'm guessing) who are this week blaming the prosecutors for the mess created by Mignini almost 8 years ago.

Eight years.

 

[acbytesla]

You should decide whether it's me making things up, or if it's news reports.
There is news coverage from both 2011 and 2014 (including interview of Federico). There is also picture and text of police papers. Names of Perugian attorneys as well.

http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/meredith-condannato-pusher-che-avrebbe-rifornito-cocaina-amanda-knox

http://www.today.it/cronaca/amanda-knox-sesso-spacciatore.html

There is even the admission of this by some pro-Knox supporters...

Oh, because some moron writes it and someone publishes it, it must be true? Your claims are groundless and you damn well know it. This is an example of Italian lunacy. Nothing is too sick and disgusting for them.

 

[Dougm]

You should decide whether it's me making things up, or if it's news reports.
There is news coverage from both 2011 and 2014 (including interview of Federico). There is also picture and text of police papers. Names of Perugian attorneys as well.

http://www.umbrialeft.it/notizie/meredith-condannato-pusher-che-avrebbe-rifornito-cocaina-amanda-knox

http://www.today.it/cronaca/amanda-knox-sesso-spacciatore.html

There is even the admission of this by some pro-Knox supporters...

I don't understand. You have such a huge fit about defamation in Italy, suing everyone at the drop of a hat, yet you come here and defame an innocent young woman, using sources that cryptically use the terms "assumed", and "allegedly".

It's over dude. The highest court in Italy just said you are full of bologna. Go find someone else to maliciously harm, since that seems to be your thing.

 

[Machiavelli]

Out of context. This is hardly "blaming" anyone. It was merely Amanda searching for a logical explanai on for finding a few drops of blood.

A 20-centimeter stain, I'd rather say.
A "blaming of the victim" is when someone puts on the victim the blame of something that he/she was himself/herself to blame for.
This is the element that makes Knox's suggestion "disgusting" or better, suspicious, since it is malicious: not credible, disingenuous.

It is not credible that Knox would assume it's normal to think that Meredith had left menstrual blood (and in such amount) around, and did not clean. The reason why it is not credible is that, according to witnesses, such behaviour was exactly the behaviour of which Meredith blamed Knox because she found it unnerving and was the reason of Meredith's complaint. Also, it was a topic on which Meredith "shamed" Knox talking about it with her British friends.
Leaving menstrual blood and not cleaning was Knox's behaviour, not Meredith's, and it was a topical fact that it was unacceptable to Meredith.

So it is not credible that Knox could assume it was normal for Meredith to behave so: she perfectly knew that it wouldn't be normal for her, that it would be unacceptable to Meredith.
Thus, she was lying. Her statement is "blaming the victim".
Blaming the victim is a nasty behaviour, it's malicious and doesn't look good, whatever one thinks about Knox's involvement in the muder.

 

[Diocletus]

You are saying people under custody are not responsible of what they do?

And btw, what about when she refused to clarify her statements against Lumumba before Judge Matteini?
And what about the following weeks, including the Dec 17. interrogation, during which she still failed to talk about and clear her false accusation?

They were statements made under duress, i.e., compulsion. Ergo, they're not "her statements"; rather, the statements are attributable to the persons imposing the duress.

And, she did clarify the "statements": she said "they hit me."

 

[Machiavelli]

I don't understand. You have such a huge fit about defamation in Italy, suing everyone at the drop of a hat, yet you come here and defame an innocent young woman, using sources that cryptically use the terms "assumed", and "allegedly".

It's over dude. The highest court in Italy just said you are full of bologna. Go find someone else to maliciously harm, since that seems to be your thing.

The court says things that I pointed out. It says things which I have read, while apparently you didn't.

 

[Diocletus]

A "blaming of the victim" is when someone puts on the victim the blame of something that he/she was himself/herself to blame for.
This is the element that makes Knox's suggestion "disgusting" or better, suspicious, since it is malicious: not credible, disingenuous.

No it's not. Blaming the victim is when you say that the victim did something that caused the crime to be committed against herself. Kercher wasn't murdered because of menstrual blood.

 

[Diocletus]

The court says things that I pointed out. It says things which I have read, while apparently you didn't.

Allegedly.

 

[Machiavelli]

They were statements made under duress, i.e., compulsion. Ergo, they're not "her statements"; rather, the statements are attributable to the persons imposing the duress.

And, she did clarify the "statements": she said "they hit me."

No, she did not clarify at all. She refused to talk. She invoked her right to not answer on Dec. 17. too, when Mignini asked her about why she accused Lumumba.
She also did not tell false accusation just during the interrogation when she was allegedly hit. She released another statement at 05.45, to magistrate who was not there during the previous interrogation, and without being questioned.
Then she wrote other two hand written memoirs containing false testimony and false evidence, and gave them voluntarily to the police without being interrogated or requested.
Then she refused to talk about this before a judge on Nov. 8.
Then she remained silent and did not produce any reliable testimony that could clarify her previous statements.
And then, she refused to talk about it again on Dec. 17.

She and her lawyers also failed to submit any querela about being hit or coerced.

 

[Machiavelli]

No it's not. Blaming the victim is when you say that the victim did something that caused the crime to be committed against herself. Kercher wasn't murdered because of menstrual blood.

Are you sure?

 

[Machiavelli]

What you are contending is that under the Italian legal system the police are not accountable for what they do to suspects they have in custody and the Italian courts will support any action by police as long as the police are able to beat the admissions of a crime out of a suspect?

They are not responsible of what suspects do.
People are responsible of what they do voluntarily, wherever they are and in all situation, this also applies to people under custody, lawful or unlawful custody, right or wrong the treatment, whatever. People are always responsible of what they do voluntarily. According to the SC 5th section (in agreement with all other courts), it is manifest that Knox's false accusation was voluntary.

(...)

In spite of the obviously twisted TJMK nonsense you spout above, the SC served a big slow pitch up to the ECHR and just said "please save us from looking like nitwits by knocking this out of the park and showing that justice in Italy is something that Italy wants". I am truly impressed that this panel thought enough of justice to make this extra effort.

The court said what I explained above.

 

[Machiavelli]

The only thing that will ever stop Machiavelli's madness and fixation on Amanda is the infirmary of old age, unless a heart attack gets him sooner.

Since the guy seems to be on the verge of blowing his gasket, my guess is the latter possibility will happen sooner than later.

If we can find out where they eventually bury the cuss, I'd go pee on his grave.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, they'll need to hide Mignini's grave from the tourists, too.

I am impressed - from collecting ad hominem rants - by the so many implicit admissions that people are unable to respond.

 

[Vixen]

What does any of this rot have to do with the fact that Amanda and Raffaele are exonerated by the report?

They are hardly exonerated with Bruno & Maresca decreeing they are under strong suspicion, Amanda washed Mez' blood off her hands and was there when the murder took place.

Yet did nothing to help her "friend", did not call an ambulance, wilfully delayed police finding the body and proactively set up an alibi for Rudy, by (a) diverting police resources to Patrick and, (b) providing Rudy with an alibi by staging the burglary.

 

[acbytesla]

Delete

 

[Strawberry]

They are hardly exonerated with Bruno & Maresca decreeing they are under strong suspicion, Amanda washed Mez' blood off her hands and was there when the murder took place.

Yet did nothing to help her "friend", did not call an ambulance, wilfully delayed police finding the body and proactively set up an alibi for Rudy, by (a) diverting police resources to Patrick and, (b) providing Rudy with an alibi by staging the burglary.

This is like a post from an alternative universe.

 

[Kauffer]

They are hardly exonerated with Bruno & Maresca decreeing they are under strong suspicion, Amanda washed Mez' blood off her hands and was there when the murder took place.

Yet did nothing to help her "friend", did not call an ambulance, wilfully delayed police finding the body and proactively set up an alibi for Rudy, by (a) diverting police resources to Patrick and, (b) providing Rudy with an alibi by staging the burglary.

She wasn't there. Nothing you state actually happened. It's your fantasy.

 

[Bill Williams]

They are hardly exonerated with Bruno & Maresca decreeing they are under strong suspicion, Amanda washed Mez' blood off her hands and was there when the murder took place.

Yet did nothing to help her "friend", did not call an ambulance, wilfully delayed police finding the body and proactively set up an alibi for Rudy, by (a) diverting police resources to Patrick and, (b) providing Rudy with an alibi by staging the burglary.

They "decreed" no such thing.

 

[Vixen]

Hence all of these are tabloids and broadsheets? (I'm conceding the DM).

How's that book coming? Do you think you'll do as well in sales and reviews as Amanda's book? (Not that you'd care).

I'm author rank 3.2K for literary fiction, and 4.5K for Action and Adventure in amazon.com. That suits me just fine. My book was actually higher ranked than Amanda's one day. Comparisons are odious, but hers is non-fiction (in the loosest sense) and is ghost-written, as is Raff's.

If you look at all these media reports, you'll find they are all virtually identical.

The beauty of Peter Owen in the TIMES is he actually used shoe leather and turned up on the scene.

 

[Strozzi]

Do you think blaming the victim by suggesting it was normal to assume Meredith had left menstrual blood on the carpet and didn't clean, was a model of grace too?

You are condemning the victim, Knox, for assuming that her housemate had perhaps been dealing with a menstrual (leakage) issue. I grew up with many sisters. I shared a bathroom with several. It is not unusual for a female to be trying to deal with menstrual leakage and hurriedly disrobe in the bathroom, stepping out of her clothes (slacks & underpants) and dealing with washcloth, towel and/or toilet paper - which sometimes hurriedly land on the floor (and aren't picked up immediately as they dash off to put fresh clothes on. Right, ladies?) The nobby bath mat had a brownish-reddish smear on it. It needed to be thrown in the washing machine. It was normal to think that her housemate had perhaps been dealing with a female matter and had not cleaned up in a thorough way.

After Knox got out of the shower she dried herself and scooted on the bathmat across the cold tile floor and hall to her room, where she dressed. She then went into the larger bathroom anteroom where all the young women shared a hair drier. While there she discovered the disgusting matter in the adjoining space's toilet, which together with her earlier observations of irregular issues caused her concern that something was really not right. She hurriedly left.