Ed clintonemails.com: Who is Eric Hoteham?

[wareyin]

Yes, I do! At the UN she said she wasn't going to turn it over, then there is a referral to the FBI and suddenly her and her lawyers are tripping all over themselves to deliver it to the FBI.

Further, you appear unaware of the fact that the server and the thumb drive had top secret data on them and therefore Hillary and her team were under a legal duty to return the governments property, warrant or not. That is not "voluntary"

Again, your point might not have been ridiculous if she turned over the server in March, the fact that she waited as long as she did makes your argument totally laughable.

And that ain't no hyperbole.

Voluntarily?

I'm sorry, that still isn't a warrant or even a formal request. Do you have anything else?

 

[The Big Dog]

I'm sorry, that still isn't a warrant or even a formal request. Do you have anything else?

I'm fascinated by this, what exactly is your end game here anyway, do you really think that arguing that Hillary turned over a server five months late and was under a legal duty to do so and initially refused but relented only after the FBI got involved equals voluntarily?

Yeah, she is REALLY covering herself in glory here!

 

[wareyin]

Yes. Condoleezza Rice.

By the way, at least according to this, that is false. Rice claims she did not use email, so had none to turn over.

 

[wareyin]

I'm fascinated by this, what exactly is your end game here anyway, do you really think that arguing that Hillary turned over a server five months late and was under a legal duty to do so and initially refused but relented only after the FBI got involved equals voluntarily?

Yeah, she is REALLY covering herself in glory here!

You claimed that the legal definition of 'seizure' applies. I am asking you to back up your claim. Do you think failure to do so is a convincing argument?

 

[Fudbucker]

Can you actually read those quotes (from a retired Governor and a committee-person, rather than 'high-level' Democrats), and see any agreement that there is a possibility of jail, as you claimed? All I see is that they wish Clinton had handled the issue differently after it became public.

You're right. Clinton is beloved by all. The first word that comes to mind when her name is mentioned is "honest". She used a private server because she was worried the government server wan't secure enough. She's cooperated every step of the way, and her story's been consistent from day one. Her handling of this manufactured scandal has been praised by all. It's impossible she knowingly sent or received classified emails on her server.

It's all true.

 

[The Big Dog]

You claimed that the legal definition of 'seizure' applies. I am asking you to back up your claim. Do you think failure to do so is a convincing argument?

Wait, you pick out your own limited definition of seizure and insist that is what I meant when I used it?

Lol, no.

By the way, this all started when you made the ridiculous claim that she turned it over voluntarily without being asked, which was as silly a comment as one is likely to see.

Remember when she said "the server will remain private" wareyin? I guess the voluntary fairy paid her a visit coincidentally at the same exact time that the FBI got interested in the sever and thumb drive.

Wow, that Hillary, she is one hell of a cooperator!

Without even being asked!

Hee hee hee!

 

[wareyin]

Wait, you pick out your own limited definition of seizure and insist that is what I meant when I used it?

Lol, no.

By the way, this all started when you made the ridiculous claim that she turned it over voluntarily without being asked, which was as silly a comment as one is likely to see.

Remember when she said "the server will remain private" wareyin? I guess the voluntary fairy paid her a visit coincidentally at the same exact time that the FBI got interested in the sever and thumb drive.

Wow, that Hillary, she is one hell of a cooperator!

Without even being asked!

Hee hee hee!

No, I'm sorry, but this all started when you claimed the FBI seized Clinton's server. You later claimed to be using the legal definition, so it isn't me that is limiting the definition. Do you have some other definition of seizure that applies that is, as you claimed, not hyperbole?

 

[Mike!]

Yes, I do! At the UN she said she wasn't going to turn it over, then there is a referral to the FBI and suddenly her and her lawyers are tripping all over themselves to deliver it to the FBI.

Further, you appear unaware of the fact that the server and the thumb drive had top secret data on them and therefore Hillary and her team were under a legal duty to return the governments property, warrant or not. That is not "voluntary"

Again, your point might not have been ridiculous if she turned over the server in March, the fact that she waited as long as she did makes your argument totally laughable.

And that ain't no hyperbole.

Voluntarily?

I think the fact that they didn't have to wrench it from her cold dead hands is what wareyin means by 'voluntarily'.

I seriously believe she thought she'd just plain get away with it all, without question, right up until she's picking out new doilies for the White House bedroom anyway, at which point, 'what difference does it make?' I'm President now, who cares who finds out?
Ruined, all those plans ruined. And she'd have gotten away with it too if not for those meddling kids Republicans.

 

[mgidm86]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-data-erased-from-server-before-handed-to-fbi

Federal investigators, prompted by a request from the inspector general for the state department, requested custody of the server to learn whether the data stored on it was secure. NBC News has reported that an FBI team is now examining the server. Forensics experts said some emails and other data may still be extracted from servers even after deletion.

According to this, someone asked for the server. She has been fighting the release of information for many months, information that was absolutely requested.

The server was not seized. I can only guess that she gave it up before an embarrassing warrant could be issued, possibly at the urging of the FBI, as well as her own campaign strategists. I would think that the FBI would give her the chance to do that, although as I said that's only conjecture - conjecture that makes a lot of sense.

It seems most people here agree that she's looking pretty bad these days, so I see no sense in trying to convince any holdouts.

 

[Ziggurat]

By the way, at least according to this, that is false. Rice claims she did not use email, so had none to turn over.

No. Pay closer attention. Your source does not claim that Rice never used email, only that she did not use email very much. But when she did use it, she used the official State Dept. email system. She had no emails to turn over because they were never in her possession, State always had them.

 

[wareyin]

No. Pay closer attention. Your source does not claim that Rice never used email, only that she did not use email very much. But when she did use it, she used the official State Dept. email system. She had no emails to turn over because they were never in her possession, State always had them.

I am glad to see you admit your claim that Rice provided emails for archiving is false.

 

[wareyin]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-data-erased-from-server-before-handed-to-fbi

According to this, someone asked for the server. She has been fighting the release of information for many months, information that was absolutely requested.

The server was not seized. I can only guess that she gave it up before an embarrassing warrant could be issued, possibly at the urging of the FBI, as well as her own campaign strategists. I would think that the FBI would give her the chance to do that, although as I said that's only conjecture - conjecture that makes a lot of sense.

It seems most people here agree that she's looking pretty bad these days, so I see no sense in trying to convince any holdouts.

Several people, who would never have voted for Clinton anyway, have convinced themselves through conjecture, suspicion, and hyperbole, but not a single fact, that they were right all along. While this is a stunning example of critical thinking, please do get back to me when the relevant authorities agree with your conjecture.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

The FBI is now investigating whether or not she violated the espionage act. Now, im still a hold out as to her criminal guilt since its not proven beyond a doubt she violated laws. But its a foregon conclusion she violated basic protocol given that its known she used an unsecure email system outside of the .gov.

Some people might would still favor her if it came to a particular election match up which i respect... but the above is silly mind reading. Assuming people may or may not be decided already assumes knowledge of whats on their mind. Some people are obviously not voting for Clinton no matter what.

For other thats a choice yet to be determimed... and for some still... this case is a part of the resume in deciding whether she should be voted....

This doesnt look good for her... but who people vote for is their prerogative. For better or for worst

 

[TheL8Elvis]

No. Pay closer attention. Your source does not claim that Rice never used email, only that she did not use email very much. But when she did use it, she used the official State Dept. email system. She had no emails to turn over because they were never in her possession, State always had them.

So when HRC argues that her emails were archived in the system because she was in the habit of sending them to other government employees with .gov email addresses, you must agree.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Great question. Are we to believe that Hillary received and sent no classified information, and did not expect to do so, during her entire term as Secretary Of State? If she believed that she would be dealing with any classified information at all, then using her own server was negligent at best.

Why do people keep bringing up this clearly fallacious argument from incredulity ?

or ...

Appeal to incredulity? Lolz.

I expect the SoS deals with all class of classified information.
You have calls, you talk to people. You use your secure fax.
When you are in charge of things, you have others doing tasks for you.

There is no reason to believe she ever expected to do more than the most mundane tasks over email.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

(This post is made in complete sincerity despite the clownishness of my previous post)

I think this may be a fair point. Let's pretend that Clinton repeatedly told her staff that the email was strictly non-classified subject matter. We have reason to believe that there was some control over who knew Clinton's email address; let's pretend that whenever the email was given to non-staff, the recipients were warned not to send classified material. It is plausible that there could be procedural controls in place that would make Clinton's email server not entirely negligent with regards to classified information handling.

But if that's the case, why aren't we hearing that story?

Because you don't send/discuss classified material on a non-classified network. The networks are segregated.

It's a given she simply wouldn't expect classified material on her email.

It would have to happen in the way that it did - someone wrote her an email that contained classified material, and sent it to her. As I have stated earlier - that could have happened even though she was using a state dept email. And of course, we know in that scenario that information would have been compromised, as the state department email servers have been compromised multiple times.

Frankly, I don't see any "incompetence" required in using personal email as SoS. I think this claim of incompetence comes from ignorance of government networks and a misunderstanding in thinking that the SoS does her job via email.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I'm fascinated by this, what exactly is your end game here anyway, do you really think that arguing that Hillary turned over a server five months late and was under a legal duty to do so and initially refused but relented only after the FBI got involved equals voluntarily?

Yeah, she is REALLY covering herself in glory here!

Way to avoid the argument

You made a claim that was clearly untrue. Admit it and move on.

 

[The Big Dog]

So when HRC argues that her emails were archived in the system because she was in the habit of sending them to other government employees with .gov email addresses, you must agree.

Rule of So.

I think it is adorable that people are repeating Hillary's spin.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I think it is a fair point about one aspect of this issue which is unlikely to be based on something that actually happened because as you noted, nobody is claiming that Clinton published memos to inform people that sensitive materials should not be sent to her via email and further nobody is claiming that Clinton followed procedures associated with receiving classified or classifiable materials for any email that she received.

I've addressed this in the posts above. You simply don't send classified material on non-classified systems. No need to inform people of this. People with clearances know this.

That, along with the fact that you can't control what everyone sends you, when someone accidentally mis-classifies one piece of information that is included in an email.

But this point, even if it were valid, is only relevant to one aspect of this issue. There is also the issue of whether Clinton ever intended to provide her emails for archiving. It appears she did not which suggests corruption in that she seems to have intended to violate the law until she was forced to provide copies of her emails.

Except for the argument she made that she was in the habit of sending everything to a state.gove email for archiving purposes.

Then, as Zig argues, State always had them.

No. Pay closer attention. Your source does not claim that Rice never used email, only that she did not use email very much. But when she did use it, she used the official State Dept. email system. She had no emails to turn over because they were never in her possession, State always had them.

(And apparently to provide maximal annoyance for everybody involved Clinton only provided printed copies and not electronic copies).

This is SOP, and covered earlier in the thread. The gov't is simply a technologically retarded establishment.

There is also the fact that Clinton mixed SoS business, non-SoS business and personal emails on the same email system. It seems like even a marginally competent lawyer could have seen the potential problems for Clinton with this approach.

Why is this a problem ? She was already the arbiter of what requires archiving and what does not.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Rule of So.

I think it is adorable that people are repeating Hillary's spin.

People like Zig, who makes the exact argument that you are calling Hillary's spin ? I think it's adorable, too.