Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

I can answer that. Both of the older Italian gals thought their younger English-speaking roommates were BOTH slobs, so shortly before the murder the two older Italian gals instituted rules and a cleaning schedule for their younger roomies to follow, complete with a system of fines.

Apparently, one of the new rules was to not leave wet clothing in the washing machine, so that is what Filomena was referring to.

As far as I know, Filomena and Laura got along fine as roomies since they had been doing that for awhile and they were both good friends, but the older Italian gals had to both crack the whip on the two new younger gals since for Amanda & Meredith, this was their first experience living away from their mothers' homes.

Due to Filomena & Laura's nagging, the murder scene had been recently cleaned fairly well before the murder.

Ken I think you are just making stuff up. For sure Amanda had lived away from home for some time.

How long had Laura and Filomena been roomies?

Laura had made a schedule of chores. Where do you get the idea of fines?

Where do you get the idea the "murder scene" had been cleaned "fairly well"? Did they use bleach? Does that mean the "foot prints" had to be very recent?

 

[Annella]

Where do you get the idea of fines?

Laura Mezzetti had begun a system whereby any of the girls who did not complete allocated chores would be fined 5 Euro's. It is in testimony.....somewhere.

btw...Laura was not impressed with Meredith's cleaning capabilities.

 

[Ken Dine]

Page 67 WTBH - the first call to F
I'm (Amanda) calling because when I came home form Raffaele's this morning , our front door was open. I found a few drops of blood in one bathroom and **** in the other toilet. Do you know anything about it?...I'm(Filomena) at the fair outside of town


The kids then went back to the cottage and for the FIRST time discovered the broken window.

Page 68.

I don't know what's confusing except your rendition of events.. Amanda didn't know about the window until she went back with Raf.

Go to the book and read it.

OK, I get it now, you were nit-picking me.

By all (most?) accounts Filomena arrived at the fair at 12:08 pm when she received Amanda's 1st call, and according to Filomena, she and her friend had arrived at the fair and they were in the process of parking their car when Amanda called about finding blood and concern about Meredith's locked door:

*12:08 p.m. Amanda calls Filomena. The latter has spent the night at her boyfriend Marco’s house. Now she is at La Feria de Morti (Fair of the Dead) in Perugia with her close friend Paola Grande.

Filomena recalls: “While we were trying to park the car, I received a call from Amanda who told me that she had slept at Raffaele’s house and that when she had gone back to our house she had found the door open and blood in her bathroom. She told me that she’d had a shower, that she was scared and that she was going to call Raffaele Sollecito. It seemed really strange to me and I asked her to check that the house was in order and to call the police.” (Note: Filomena remembers, incorrectly, receiving this call at 12:35.)

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...s-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-updated/

This 'Guilter' website agrees that Filomena had arrived at the fair at 12.08:

4. Why didn’t Amanda call Filomena back?

In the 12:08 call, Amanda told Filomena she would try Meredith’s phones and then call her back.

In the email, Amanda claims that she called Filomena back three quarters of an hour later – after Raffaele’s finished calling the police at 12:55.

But cellphone records show that Amanda never called Filomena back at all.

On the other hand, Filomena DOES call Amanda back – at 12:12 and 12:20. It’s not clear whether Filomena receives an answer to these calls, or simply leaves a message – certainly, Amanda’s email makes no mention of having received these calls.

Then Filomena tries a third time, at 12:34, which is when Amanda tells her that Filomena’s own room has been broken into.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...t_at_making_amanda_knoxs_timeline_alibi_work/

So, by "LATER" you meant the difference between 12:08 and 12:34, the short time between those two calls?

Between those two calls, did Filomena actually manage to park the car (since at 12:08 she said they were still trying to park the car), then once Filomena parked and walked to the entrance, did she pay and enjoy the fair, or did Filomena pretty much abort the fair early on and then rush back to her cottage, as I had posted she had done?

Why is your nitpicking even relevant to what I had posted about the arrival times of the postal police and Filomena and her friends at the cottage shortly after 1:00 pm?

 

[Methos]

Laura Mezzetti had begun a system whereby any of the girls who did not complete allocated chores would be fined 5 Euro's. It is in testimony.....somewhere.

btw...Laura was not impressed with Meredith's cleaning capabilities.

It's in Laura's testimony (page 11):

DOMANDA - Avevano ucciso Meredith. Senta si ricorda con che cosa, quali erano i prodotti della pulizia di casa, quante volte facevate la pulizia, come vi organizzavate
se c'era un turno?
RISPOSTA - Non ricordo i prodotti che utilizzavamo per casa e per quanto riguarda le pulizie era un motivo un po' di screzio con le ragazze, c'è da dire che io sono molto precisa da questo punto di vista, un po' quasi fissata e le ragazze non è che pulissero molto, tanto è vero che io gli ultimi giorni di ottobre avevo fatto, avevo scritto un turno per le pulizie e l'avevo appeso nel portone di casa nel quale addirittura prevedevo una sorta di multa di 5 Euro per chi non avesse rispettato il turno delle pulizie e quindi gran parte delle volte lo facevo io o Filomena.

Google:

QUESTION - They had killed Meredith. Look remembers with what, what were the products of cleaning of the house, how often did you clean as you organizzavate
if there was a shift?
ANSWER - I do not remember the products that we used for home and regarding housekeeping was a reason a little 'disagreement with the girls, we have to say that I am very clear from this point of view, a bit' and almost fixed girls is not that much cleaned in, so much so that the last days of October I had done, I had written a turn for cleaning and I had hung in the door of the house in which even I expected some sort of fine of 5 euros for those was in breach of the duty of cleaning and therefore most of the time I did I or Filomena.

 

[LondonJohn]

Laura Mezzetti had begun a system whereby any of the girls who did not complete allocated chores would be fined 5 Euro's. It is in testimony.....somewhere.

btw...Laura was not impressed with Meredith's cleaning capabilities.

Are you KIDDING me?! I was under the impression that Miss Kercher was the supreme incarnation of neatness, tidiness, sobriety and all-round unimpeachable fabulousness.......

 

[anglolawyer]

I do wish someone would ask Vixen what the implications would have been had the washing machine still been warm with Meredith's clothes in it (they were hers, weren't they?). I understand that what we are supposed to imagine is a night-time clean up involving meticulous and selective obliteration of fingerprints and footprints etc. but why would that involve 'Mez's' dirty laundry when the clothes she was actually wearing were left unwashed? And why would the bathmat not have been tossed into the washer? And why start calling everybody before the cycle was finished and everything was nicely dried and folded?

Like all the really strong points in this case (cf. the undoubtedly significant lamp and those very damning bleach receipts) this one was also missed by the incompetent prosecutors. Thus a search of the Massei report using the term 'washing machine' yields 7 results, not one of which refers to whether it was warm or not.

 

[anglolawyer]

Dupe - deleted

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

I'm sorry for asking a question that has probably been discussed in depth already, but I don't have the time to follow this thread regularly, despite a deep interest in the case since its inception.

Are we still expecting a motivations report of some kind, explaining the reasoning behind the final acquittal? If so, when can it be expected to be released?

 

[anglolawyer]

I'm sorry for asking a question that has probably been discussed in depth already, but I don't have the time to follow this thread regularly, despite a deep interest in the case since its inception.

Are we still expecting a motivations report of some kind, explaining the reasoning behind the final acquittal? If so, when can it be expected to be released?

Yes we are. It is overdue and no one knows when it will come out.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Yes we are. It is overdue and no one knows when it will come out.

Thank you for your reply. How long overdue is it?

 

[anglolawyer]

Thank you for your reply. How long overdue is it?

A couple of months or so, I think. Apparently, it's not unusual.

 

[Numbers]

I'm sorry for asking a question that has probably been discussed in depth already, but I don't have the time to follow this thread regularly, despite a deep interest in the case since its inception.

Are we still expecting a motivations report of some kind, explaining the reasoning behind the final acquittal? If so, when can it be expected to be released?

Yes we are. It is overdue and no one knows when it will come out.

Thank you for your reply. How long overdue is it?

A couple of months or so, I think. Apparently, it's not unusual.

There apparently is a backlog of motivation reports at the CSC, since all cases can be appealed to that court. I don't know how large the backlog is for the specific panel or section (Fifth Section) handling this case, or if such information is available. Also, the courts in Italy, IIUC, are all on break August 1 to September 15, and therefore no report should be expected before September 15.

Apparently the ECHR also takes off the month of August, and the backlog at that court is about 60,000 applications pending judicial review, for all the countries of the CoE.

 

[Grinder]

It's in Laura's testimony (page 11):

Google:

I read it over a the PG wiki and the Google was little different. It said something about ten times and in both cases it ssaid that L & F therefore did it. Couldn't find any mention of it in Amanda's book. Couldn't find it in F"s but didn't look too hard.

Never heard M was a problem. Except for the fines so early on pretty much normal to set up duties in a group home.

Two of you have spoiled the drill because I wanted to know where somebody specific was getting the story.

At any rate not important.

 

[Grinder]

After Amanda called Filomena to tell her about her broken window, Filomena had just arrived at the fair in Marco's car, so Marco had to call Luca for a ride to the cottage (about a 10 minute trip by car between their homes), so it took about 20 minutes for Luca to pick up Marco and then drive to the cottage, so the guys arrived at the cottage about 1:05, just a few minutes after the Postal Police had arrived. Filomena arrived at the cottage within a minute or two of Luca and Marco.

OK, I get it now, you were nit-picking me.

By all (most?) accounts Filomena arrived at the fair at 12:08 pm when she received Amanda's 1st call, and according to Filomena, she and her friend had arrived at the fair and they were in the process of parking their car when Amanda called about finding blood and concern about Meredith's locked door:

You have it wrong. If we went with your time line the boys would have arrived well before 1:05. The salient significance in pointing out your immense mistake is that Amanda didn't tell about the window until returning to the cottage and seeing it and telling in a second call and that's when F went into action.

So, by "LATER" you meant the difference between 12:08 and 12:34, the short time between those two calls?

In terms of the issue of when the calls were made and when the police arrived 26 minutes was almost a lifetime.

 

[Grinder]

I do wish someone would ask Vixen what the implications would have been had the washing machine still been warm with Meredith's clothes in it (they were hers, weren't they?). I understand that what we are supposed to imagine is a night-time clean up involving meticulous and selective obliteration of fingerprints and footprints etc. but why would that involve 'Mez's' dirty laundry when the clothes she was actually wearing were left unwashed? And why would the bathmat not have been tossed into the washer? And why start calling everybody before the cycle was finished and everything was nicely dried and folded?

Like all the really strong points in this case (cf. the undoubtedly significant lamp and those very damning bleach receipts) this one was also missed by the incompetent prosecutors. Thus a search of the Massei report using the term 'washing machine' yields 7 results, not one of which refers to whether it was warm or not.

Welcome back! Where are those 411 chearleader emojis?

I have mentioned the lack of use of this killer evidence but the response is that a savvy prosecutor must pick and chose when there is sooooooo much evidence. When I ask whether mentioning the Daily Mxxx article about the noise ticket was more important than the running machine, alas no reply.

I'm still waiting from before your hiatus for an example of a knife used in a murder producing no blood but DNA.

Along with about ten other things.

Love Monday Night Football

 

[Grinder]

A couple of months or so, I think. Apparently, it's not unusual.

One would think that there would be some regular reporting of these backlogs. Perhaps one of the Italian readers could do a search to verify that it is a normal situation even for such a well covered case.

 

[anglolawyer]

Welcome back! Where are those 411 chearleader emojis?

I have mentioned the lack of use of this killer evidence but the response is that a savvy prosecutor must pick and chose when there is sooooooo much evidence. When I ask whether mentioning the Daily Mxxx article about the noise ticket was more important than the running machine, alas no reply.

I'm still waiting from before your hiatus for an example of a knife used in a murder producing no blood but DNA.

Along with about ten other things.

Thanks for the welcome, Grinder. Good to be back.

I get the bleach receipts* (cleaning) and the lamp* (same) but not the washing machine? What were they washing and if they were washing stuff why not wash the bleedin' bathmat with Raf's footprint splattered all over it. And with the spin cycle still thrumming away what the heck were they doing calling all and sundry to the scene? Only Vixen can explain. I'm all ears.

Love Monday Night Football

*ETA setting aside that the first is fictitious and the second not understood by anybody.

 

[anglolawyer]

One would think that there would be some regular reporting of these backlogs. Perhaps one of the Italian readers could do a search to verify that it is a normal situation even for such a well covered case.

In the Scazzi-Miseri case there was a delay of about a year before they coughed up a 1,500 pagejaw-dropp) report. Not sure that was the ISC though.

 

[Ken Dine]

I read it over a the PG wiki and the Google was little different. It said something about ten times and in both cases it ssaid that L & F therefore did it. Couldn't find any mention of it in Amanda's book. Couldn't find it in F"s but didn't look too hard.

Never heard M was a problem. Except for the fines so early on pretty much normal to set up duties in a group home.

Two of you have spoiled the drill because I wanted to know where somebody specific was getting the story.

At any rate not important.

If you mean me as your "specific somebody," not knowing that Laura had testified about instituting a work schedule enforced with fines, I made up the story out of whole cloth.

Can you imagine my surprise when my fairytale turned out to be true?

 

[Bill Williams]

Thank you for your reply. How long overdue is it?

A couple of months or so, I think. Apparently, it's not unusual.

One would think that there would be some regular reporting of these backlogs. Perhaps one of the Italian readers could do a search to verify that it is a normal situation even for such a well covered case.

With all due respect, all of us should be cautious with all our, "One would think's". Without Machiavelli posting regularly any more, we here on a remote corner of the Internet are flying pretty much blind. Most US/Canadian courts have searchable databases. Not so in Italy, so it seems. Machiavelli corrected the record on the timing/nature of the various trials where Mignini himself was the defendant, but would not say where/how he got the info. In Italy it is what it is, and will be published when it's published.

Welcome back, Anglo. I'm taking bets on longevity!