Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

Just how stupid a comment can you write?
Except they had called the police!
Except they had phoned Filomena to say that her room had been broken into, and the assumption would be she would call the police!
Except they had phoned a serving police officer who might have called in the local police!

So three different ways they might expect the police.

Luca Altieri and Marco made a deposition to the courts that they arrived 12:45 and the Postal Police were already there.

Puts Raff ringing the police later in a new light, eh?

Incidentally, neither of them rang Filomena to say her room had been broken into. She had to ring them! At 12:34, no doubt with the postal police car screaming to a halt in front of them, no doubt Amanda grudgingly felt she had better mention it.

 

[Vixen]

Well, for a start they called them, so they probably were expecting them.

But that doesn't answer the question.

What did they have to gain by washing Meredith's clothes that were unconnected to the murder? They couldn't have known the crack forensic team would leave bloodied clothes and underwear to get moved around and contaminated for weeks on end.

Can you explain what happened to the bag Amanda took round for laundry?

 

[Mr Fied]

Can you explain what happened to the bag Amanda took round for laundry?

Can you answer the question?

What did they have to gain from putting the washing machine on?

What was in the washing machine that had any relevance to the murder?

 

[acbytesla]

You are the one who brought the subject up, so do your own research. You have access to the same resources as me.

That's an outright lie. You said it was in the court testimony. Which was another outright lie. To support the lie you produced not testimony, but another article in the press. Then to cover your dishonesty you claim it is in some deposition.

AND KNOWING YOU'VE BEEN CAUGHT IN ONE OF YOUR MANY LIES, YOU TELL US SEARCH FOR SOMETHING WE ALL KNOW DOESNT EXIST?

 

[Grinder]

Hi Grinder, I am sure I quoted a case, as did others. It's fruitless anyway, as each case has to be judged on its own merits.

No. No case has been cited.

As you are aware, the police forensically tested the washing machine clothes but found nothing relevant and the court didn't consider it prime evidence.

Ahhh, the point of doin' the wash was to rid of evidence duh. The point is t if the washing machine had been still warm, it would prove the kids had started it in the early morning.

With over 498 forensic samples, it's a wise person who edits it down to a handful of specimen key evidence points.

If true it would be a very key point. Certainly more key than a british tab story about Amanda's noise ticket.

 

[Annella]

I have checked Filomena's testimony ( Italian versions) and nowhere does she say the washing machine was warm, running etc.
Surprise surprise!

This from IIP :

This is another case where the police misinformed the media. In Richard Owen's November 25 report mentioned above, he says police heard the washing machine spinning to the end of its cycle when they arrived at the cottage. Other media reports repeated this claim. The stories varied from article to article. As it turned out, there was nothing incriminating at all in the washing machine. Meredith had clothes in the washer. Nothing in the washer had been worn at the time of her murder. Meredith had simply been doing laundry. There was never any mention of the washing machine running when the Postal Police arrived, at the trial. This was another myth that spread throughout the media.

 

[acbytesla]

Not false. You have been told Filomena testified to the court at the trial the washing machine was still in operation when she arrived.


Filomena Romanelli's testimony: http://t.co/OJRAoSoJmL
GM: Senta prima di andare avanti volevo sapere questo: lei si ricorda se c'era quando è arrivata la lavatrice in funzione?

FR: Sì, era carica.
GM: Before you go ahead I wanted to know this: do you remember when you arrived the washing machine was in operation?
FR: Yes, it was loaded.

---

The discerning reader can judge which of us is telling porky pies.

You have been informed several times by reliable sources, including the court transcripts. You appear to be crossing your fingers none of us speaks Italian.

It's your preogative to refuse to acknowledge the truth, Amanda & Raff were caught red-handed running the washing machine, either because of cognitive dissonance, blatant knowledge you are spinning and twisting the fact, or you really are in La-La Land, possibly out of a misguided belief or prejudices about Italians versus Americans.

This I the most addled illogical nonsense imaginable. You are right the discerning reader can easily tell and they do. See anyone coming to your defense? No, they are shaking their heads embarrassed for you. Think about this for a moment Vixen. Why would Amanda and Raffaele after killing Meredith run a load of Meredith's clothes? Sheeesh.

 

[Methos]

Luca Altieri and Marco made a deposition to the courts that they arrived 12:45 and the Postal Police were already there.

Puts Raff ringing the police later in a new light, eh?

Incidentally, neither of them rang Filomena to say her room had been broken into. She had to ring them! At 12:34, no doubt with the postal police car screaming to a halt in front of them, no doubt Amanda grudgingly felt she had better mention it.

Are you refering to this post by Ergon on PMF.net?

Amanda Knox campaign lies about 112 calls exposed
[...]
Checking the Luca Altieri deposition, I came across this: Luca Altieri and Marco Zaroli arrived at Villa Pergola 7 at 12:45 PM, and the postal police were already there.

So, the 12:51 and 12:54 emergency phone calls were made after the postal police arrived, as were Knox's 12:47 call to her mother, and Sollecito's 12:50 call to his sister. (Judge Massei got it wrong, therefore, but Nencini got it right).

As speculated before, the lovebirds, panicking, made the emergency calls after the police arrived.

Isn't it interesting that Luca Altieri's phone log:

shows that Marco Zaroli called Luca Altieri from his landline phone (i.e. Marco was at home at that point) at 12:45:36...?

 

[acbytesla]

Are you refering to this post by Ergon on PMF.net?

Isn't it interesting that Luca Altieri's phone log:
[qimg]http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Luca-Altieri-phone-log.jpg[/qimg]
shows that Marco Zaroli called Luca Altieri from his landline phone (i.e. Marco was at home at that point) at 12:45:36...?

Ooooops! Vixen strikes with another lie. Does this surprise anyone?

 

[Planigale]

Luca Altieri and Marco made a deposition to the courts that they arrived 12:45 and the Postal Police were already there.

Puts Raff ringing the police later in a new light, eh?

Incidentally, neither of them rang Filomena to say her room had been broken into. She had to ring them! At 12:34, no doubt with the postal police car screaming to a halt in front of them, no doubt Amanda grudgingly felt she had better mention it.

Filomena is first rung at 12.08, then at 12.34. Solicito or Knox could not know that Filomena would not ring the police.

Sollecito rings his sister at 12.50, then 112 at 12.51, 12.54.

CCTV shows the postal police cannot arrive before 12.51.

The phone log of Luca Altieri on November 2 proves that both he and Marco Zaroli weren’t at the cottage at 12.46 pm when Zaroli called Altieri from his home phone line.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Luca-Altieri-phone-log.jpg
This shows the problems with memory.

Either Battisitelli or Altieri is lying when Altieri testifies Battisteli entered MK's bedroom and Battisteli testified he did not.

If we believe the 12.35 arrival time for the postal police this means they failed to observe any of the phone calls made or received by Knox / Sollecito, not just one or two but six calls. Neither of the two postal police observed any phone call being made.

We know that the postal police did not scream to a halt in front of Knox and Sollecito. Battistelli arrived on foot because they had difficulties finding the apartment whilst Marzi parked the car.

The car 'screaming to a halt' in front of the apartment just shows how you fantasise about this case; completely making up things.

 

[LondonJohn]

Are you refering to this post by Ergon on PMF.net?

Isn't it interesting that Luca Altieri's phone log:
[qimg]http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Luca-Altieri-phone-log.jpg[/qimg]
shows that Marco Zaroli called Luca Altieri from his landline phone (i.e. Marco was at home at that point) at 12:45:36...?

Ahaha. Just goes to show how easily credulous, partisan, illogical and unintelligent observers can be convinced by bogus "evidence". We see exactly the same phenomenon with things like 9/11 conspiracy theorists and Moon-landing-hoax believers.

A quick glance over at the pro-guilt site where this originated shows the very same thing playing out. It's one of many, many reasons why they are wrong, misguided and improperly biased.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm just so sick of debating with V. She doesn't bring anything new to the table. Just the old repeated errors from the news media which she considers to be more reliable than the actual court documents. I want to read the damn motivation instead of lies like the washing machine was running when Filomena arrived or the calls were made after the police arrived.

Time for the truth. Enough of the lies.

 

[LondonJohn]

Filomena is first rung at 12.08, then at 12.34. Solicito or Knox could not know that Filomena would not ring the police.

Sollecito rings his sister at 12.50, then 112 at 12.51, 12.54.

CCTV shows the postal police cannot arrive before 12.51.

The phone log of Luca Altieri on November 2 proves that both he and Marco Zaroli weren’t at the cottage at 12.46 pm when Zaroli called Altieri from his home phone line.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Luca-Altieri-phone-log.jpg
This shows the problems with memory.

Exactly. This is in fact a fantastic example of the serious fallibility of human memory, and why it should be treated with extreme caution in things like criminal trials (especially if being used to help convict).

On the face of it, there's little motivation for Zaroli or Altieri to either lie or "misremember" these timings, yet the phone records unequivocally show that they were both significantly wrong in their recollections. I suppose one could argue that they might have wanted to believe they got there earlier, since that could make them seem to have been more proactive and helpful. But other than that, there's not much way to explain how they might have got their recollection so wrong - other than the basic fallibility of human memory (especially when two or more people appear to bolster each other's (incorrect) recollections).

 

[Ken Dine]

Are you refering to this post by Ergon on PMF.net?

Isn't it interesting that Luca Altieri's phone log:

shows that Marco Zaroli called Luca Altieri from his landline phone (i.e. Marco was at home at that point) at 12:45:36...?

After Amanda called Filomena to tell her about her broken window, Filomena had just arrived at the fair in Marco's car, so Marco had to call Luca for a ride to the cottage (about a 10 minute trip by car between their homes), so it took about 20 minutes for Luca to pick up Marco and then drive to the cottage, so the guys arrived at the cottage about 1:05, just a few minutes after the Postal Police had arrived. Filomena arrived at the cottage within a minute or two of Luca and Marco.

Even Judge Massei had acknowledged that the Postal Police had arrived at the cottage shortly after 1:00 pm.

If Amanda & Raffaele were surprised about anything, then it was how quickly police had arrived at the cottage after they had called the police, but of course, the Postal Police weren't there in response to Raffaele's emergency call to the police.

When the Postal Police arrived Amanda & Raffaele were sitting outside waiting for the police. If the Postal Police hadn't arrived first, then Amanda & Raffaele would be sitting outside waiting for the police for 20 minutes longer before the regular police had responded to their call.

Even if Amanda & Raffaele were up to no good that morning (e.g., if they had altered the crime scene to conceal their involvement), then clearly by 12:55 pm the two lovers had already finished their skulduggery.

I fail to see what difference it would make in this case if the police arrived at 1:02 pm, or 1:25 pm, since in either case, Amanda & Raffaele had finished all of their phone calls (20+ minutes worth) by 12:55 pm and they were then sitting outside waiting for the police, no matter what time the police would arrive.

Only an insane 'Guilter' could try to make a mountain out of this molehill.

 

[Grinder]

After Amanda called Filomena to tell her about her broken window, Filomena had just arrived at the fair

She didn't call about the window until later. Now my primary source is Amanda so that won't stand up to a Daily Mirror or Mail article I'm sure.

 

[Ken Dine]

BTW

'Guilters' and the idjut Italian police have claimed that someone (i.e., Amanda) had to have let Guede into the cottage since the door was locked and the window was too high for Guede to climb in that way.

Guede probably could have scaled the wall into Filomena's window, but there's another scenario that's never been mentioned.

If you're going to be a professional thief, as apparently Guede was, then learning to pick a lock is easy, especially if you have lock picks, which are cheap.

Even if you don't have professional lock picks, as the below video shows how to do, you can easily fashion lock picks out of paperclips.

Even if a thief had lock picks and knew how to use them, then they probably would still chuck a rock thru a window first to see if anyone was home.

Edited by zooterkin: 

Edited for rule 11 and 1.

 

[Ken Dine]

After Amanda called Filomena to tell her about her broken window, Filomena had just arrived at the fair in Marco's car, so Marco had to call Luca for a ride to the cottage (about a 10 minute trip by car between their homes), so it took about 20 minutes for Luca to pick up Marco and then drive to the cottage, so the guys arrived at the cottage about 1:05, just a few minutes after the Postal Police had arrived. Filomena arrived at the cottage within a minute or two of Luca and Marco.

She [AMANDA] didn't call about the window until later. Now my primary source is Amanda so that won't stand up to a Daily Mirror or Mail article I'm sure.

AS I recall, Filomena had just arrived at the fair when Amanda had called her about the broken window, at which point Filomena called her boyfriend and everyone made a mad dash towards the cottage, with Filomena and her friends arriving at the cottage shortly after 1:00 pm.

Amanda did call Filomena earlier with concerns about spots of blood and Meredith's locked door, but Filomena was still going about her planned activities until Amanda returned to the cottage with Raffaele and noticed Filomena's broken window, and it was that broken-window call which alarmed Filomena enough to make her change her plans and dash back towards the cottage.

In short, Amanda called Filomena about the broken window as Filomena arrived at the fair around 12:40 pm, so how could Amanda have called Filomena about the broken window later than that?

Seriously CONFUSED by your posting???? Can you clarify?

 

[Strozzi]

There are 3 Filomena depositions and I just looked at all of them. There are two that mention the washing machine in reference to being asked again about who the clothes belonged to.

Quote:
A.D.R. In the following days, when I went coli Sotio the Judicial Police at the scene in order to verify if they missed the knives in the house, 110 noted that ne1 bathroom more 'great, where is located the washing machine, within it there were rags not mine. Similarly the iodine ~
I can rule out that they were of Laura, since the latter, being two days before the game
his body was found, he would definitely say something about it or to lay them out or
to wash them. I say this because on Laura prevailed with some sort of agreement finalized mutually to avoid that the clothes remain long in the washing machine in case of absence of a the two. . .

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/

. . .

RoseM, I have highlighted above a (machine?) translation you posted of Filomena's statement. What is Filomena alluding to in the highlighted statement? Did Filomena and Laura have housemate disagreements over one of them leaving clothes for days in the washing machine or dryer? Did one speak to the other about a laundry issue? Was it a complaint?

 

[Grinder]

AS I recall, Filomena had just arrived at the fair when Amanda had called her about the broken window, at which point Filomena called her boyfriend and everyone made a mad dash towards the cottage, with Filomena and her friends arriving at the cottage shortly after 1:00 pm.

Amanda did call Filomena earlier with concerns about spots of blood and Meredith's locked door, but Filomena was still going about her planned activities until Amanda returned to the cottage with Raffaele and noticed Filomena's broken window, and it was that broken-window call which alarmed Filomena enough to make her change her plans and dash back towards the cottage.

In short, Amanda called Filomena about the broken window as Filomena arrived at the fair around 12:40 pm, so how could Amanda have called Filomena about the broken window later than that?

Seriously CONFUSED by your posting???? Can you clarify?

Page 67 WTBH - the first call to F
I'm (Amanda) calling because when I came home form Raffaele's this morning , our front door was open. I found a few drops of blood in one bathroom and **** in the other toilet. Do you know anything about it?...I'm(Filomena) at the fair outside of town


The kids then went back to the cottage and for the FIRST time discovered the broken window.

Page 68.

I don't know what's confusing except your rendition of events.. Amanda didn't know about the window until she went back with Raf.

Go to the book and read it.

 

[Ken Dine]

There are 3 Filomena depositions and I just looked at all of them. There are two that mention the washing machine in reference to being asked again about who the clothes belonged to.

A.D.R. In the following days, when I went coli Sotio the Judicial Police at the scene in order to verify if they missed the knives in the house, 110 noted that ne1 bathroom more 'great, where is located the washing machine, within it there were rags not mine. Similarly the iodine ~
I can rule out that they were of Laura, since the latter, being two days before the game
his body was found, he would definitely say something about it or to lay them out or
to wash them. I say this because on Laura prevailed with some sort of agreement finalized mutually to avoid that the clothes remain long in the washing machine in case of absence of a the two. . .

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/

RoseM, I have highlighted above a (machine?) translation you posted of Filomena's statement. What is Filomena alluding to in the highlighted statement? Did Filomena and Laura have housemate disagreements over cleanliness in the house? Did one speak to the other about a laundry issue? Was it a complaint? Did one of them then regale her girl posse with stories about how the other cavalierly left clothes in the machine?

I can answer that. Both of the older Italian gals thought their younger English-speaking roommates were BOTH slobs, so shortly before the murder the two older Italian gals instituted rules and a cleaning schedule for their younger roomies to follow, complete with a system of fines.

Apparently, one of the new rules was to not leave wet clothing in the washing machine, so that is what Filomena was referring to.

As far as I know, Filomena and Laura got along fine as roomies since they had been doing that for awhile and they were both good friends, but the older Italian gals had to both crack the whip on the two new younger gals since for Amanda & Meredith, this was their first experience living away from their mothers' homes.

Due to Filomena & Laura's nagging, the murder scene had been recently cleaned fairly well before the murder.