That theory makes no sense at all. For the impact and the shot to have been misconstrued as two shots, there would have to have been a significant and discernible delay between the two noises. But there was none. The 130 or more, decibel shock wave arrived with the bullet, so the sound of the impact would have been perfectly simultaneous with that shock wave.
Another day, another straw man argument from Robert. I mentioned the shock wave not at all. Why he invokes it as part of his rebuttal is beyond my ken. Or even my barbie.
The sound of the impact of the bullet on the skull would make a noise separate and distinct from the sound of the weapon being fired. I'm talking about the sound of the bullet being fired, which travels at the speed of sound, and the speed of the bullet, which travels about three times as fast, give or take a few hundred feet per second. When the bullet travelled the 88 yards from the weapon to JFK's skull between frames 312 and 313, the sound of the weapon had only travelled one-third as far.
Let's do the math together, Robert.
Frame 312 is the last frame that shows JFK's head undamaged. Frame 313 shows the massive head explosion, after the bullet has already passed through the head. So the bullet actually struck between those two frames. Let's call it 312.5 for convenience.
Let's work backward to determine when the bullet was fired. The bullet had to traverse about 88 yards or 264 feet to get to JFK's head. At 2100 fps, that's 264 / 2100 or .125 seconds to travel those 88 yards. That's the equivalent of roughly 2.3 Zapruder frames since Zapruder's Bell and Howell camera exposed film at the rate of 18.3 frames per second.
That means the shot that impacted JFK in the head was fired at roughly frame 310.2 (312.5 minus 2.3 frames), if it came from the sniper's nest, which is my scenario.
Are you with me so far?
The passengers in the limo (and Clint Hill, who was rushing to the limo), were the closest to the impact on JFK's head, and the sound of the impact did not have far to travel to be heard by them... only a few feet in the case of Connally, Greer and Kellerman, and maybe a dozen feet in the case of Clint Hill. Let's ignore the delay here, which would amount to at best maybe 1/100th of a second. So those people would hear the sound of the impact of the bullet on the head at just about Z312.5, the same instance as the head shot.
Still with me?
Now, when would they hear the sound of the rifle shot?
Let's do the math together again. The sound of the bullet being fired from Oswald's rifle would be travelling at about 700 fps, and it was fired at, as we previously determined, frame 310.2. It actually had to travel further than 88 yards because the car was moving away from the weapon, but let's ignore that consideration and assume the car was stationary for the duration of this problem-solving exercise. The sound would take 264 / 700 of a second to travel those 88 yards - or roughly .377 seconds to travel from the rifle to the limo. It's more than a third of a second later. That equates to 6.9 Zapruder frames (or more, as the limo was moving away, but we're ignoring that).
The rifle was fired at Zapruder frame 310.2, which means the sound would reach the limo passengers at Zapruder frame 317.1 (frame 310.2 + 6.9 frames). The difference between when the impact was heard (312.5) and when the sound was heard (317.1) is 4.6 frames; or almost exactly a quarter of a second later... close enough to be called almost simultaneous by Clint Hill or bang-bang by Roy Kellerman and Bill Greer.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, what is your best estimate on the timespan between the first firecracker-type noise you heard and the second shot which you have described?
Mr. HILL. Approximately 5 seconds.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did the impact on the President's head occur simultaneously, before, or after the second noise which you have described?
Mr. HILL. Almost simultaneously.
That sounds more like a quarter second apart than 1.5 seconds apart.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to say how many you heard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.
That sounds more like a quarter second apart than 1.5 seconds apart.
Mr. GREER. To the best of my recollection, Congressman, was that the last two were closer together than the first one. It seemed like the first one, and then there was, you know, bang, bang, just right behind it almost. The two seemed, the last two seemed, closer to me than the other.
That sounds more like a quarter second apart than 1.5 seconds apart.
And of course, three witnesses mentioned the impact on the skull separate from the sound of the shot (Connally, Hill, and Greer):
Mr. GREER. The second one didn't sound any different much than the first one but I kind of got, by turning around, I don't know whether I got a little concussion of it, maybe when it hit something or not, I may have gotten a little concussion that made me think there was something different to it.
Governor CONNALLY. ...and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.
Mr. HILL. ...it had a different sound, first of all, than the first sound that I heard. The second one had almost a double sound--as though you were standing against something metal and firing into it, and you hear both the sound of a gun going off and the sound of the cartridge hitting the metal place, which could have been caused probably by the hard surface of the head. But I am not sure that that is what caused it.
Of course, for other witnesses, like Sam Holland or Jean Hill, the numbers for the speed of sound or the bullet don't change but the math does as their distance to the limo increases. A person close to the TSBD at the corner of Elm and Houston would hear the rifle shot after it travelled only maybe 120 feet, but the bullet would have to travel to JFK's skull and the sound of that impact would then have to travel back to the witness at the speed of sound. It might be an interesting exercise to map the location of the witnesses and the delay between the last two shots they reported.
Clint Hill confirmed that fact when he stated that the the sound was like one bullet hitting something hard, which is exactly what it was. He never stated or implied that it sounded like two separate shots.
Another straw man argument. I'm not claiming Hill thought he heard two separate shots at the end of the shooting - and I've explained that before. I'm claiming he heard both the sound of the rifle being fired and the sound of the bullet striking the skull. Ignore the testimony at your peril. He did attest to two separate sounds, both the sound of the impact and the sound of the rifle being fired. I am claiming that some of your other witnesses to two shots at the end of the shooting heard those same two sounds, and thought they were two gunshots.
Here you go, for your reading displeasure once more:
Mr. HILL. It was right, but I cannot say for sure that it was rear, because when I mounted the car it was--it had a different sound, first of all, than the first sound that I heard. The second one had almost a double sound--as though you were standing against something metal and firing into it, and you hear both the sound of a gun going off and the sound of the cartridge hitting the metal place, which could have been caused probably by the hard surface of the head. But I am not sure that that is what caused it.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you describing this double sound with respect to what you heard on the occasion of the second shot?
Mr. HILL. The second shot that I heard; yes, sir.
Please cease and desist with the straw men arguments, Robert.
And you still have not dealt with the fact that the reactions we are discussing here, which followed the 285 shot, all occurred PRIOR to 313, so they couldn't possibly have been the result of those people being confused by the sound of the head shot.
We are, for the moment, focusing on the double-sound that some witnesses reported that you claim is the result of shots at Z285 and Z313. I suggest some of the witnesses heard the sound of the impact of the bullet on the skull, and the sound of the bullet being fired as two separate sounds, and thought they were two separate shots. I think my scenario, as it invokes nothing more than an understanding of physics, is simpler, more understandable, and conforms better to what the witnesses actually reported than your scenario, which invokes multiple unseen gunmen that leave no trace, some bullets that are heard, while others are not heard, and five or more shots taking ten or more seconds from three or more locations. It also conforms far better, of course, to the physical evidence of one weapon found, three shells recovered, and two large fragments and one nearly whole bullet recovered traceable to that one weapon.
It was in 1965, that I learned about this, by studying Mrs. Connally, in the Zapruder film - a copy of which I had hijacked from the old, Medio, JFK CD.
Reading her testimony, I was thinking to myself, that she and many other witnesses were indeed, hopelessly confused about the shots. But as I watched her in the film, a light suddenly came on.
She testified that she heard a single shot and then turned to look back at JFK, seeing him with his hands raised up to roughly the level of his face. It is easy to see that this happened at about frame 258, well after the 223 shot.
Mrs. CONNALLY. ..I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was - he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down. Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John.
She then testified about what she did next,
I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him.
So when did that happen?
In this brief Zapruder segment, it is quite easy to see when she finally turned back to her husband and pulled him back to her.
http://jfkhistory.com/nellie3.gif
When did that happen, Hank?
We can argue all day about the reliability of what witnesses say, but there is no argument about what they did and when they did it, when those reactions are clearly visible in the Zapruder film.
So, when did she turn back to her husband, as she described, following the
"second shot"?
You just tried to bail on the witness testimony by saying "We can argue all day about the reliability of what witnesses say" - and then you quote a witness (Nellie Connally) and *assume* she's reliable.
Can't have it both ways, Robert.
Which way do you want to have it? The witnesses are reliable, in which case they confirm my scenario of two shots and a head impact in 4.9 seconds far more so than your scenario of four or five or more shots in 9 seconds or more, or the witnesses are unreliable, in which case we can disregard the testimony of Nellie Connally.
But you can't throw out my witnesses because they might be unreliable, and retain the statements you want to keep by claiming your witnesses aren't subject to the same unreliability as mine.
Well, you can, and that appears to be exactly what you're doing above. But I think most people would see right through that attempt to manipulate the data in your favor.
All the best,
Hank
