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Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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No testimony found. Where is it?
It's in the same place as the evidence of any other case where DNA was found on a weapon with an absence of any blood. It's there with the evidence that Raffaele's finger print in blood was found on the inside of Meredith's door. And the other items that Vixen has brought up that have no evidence to support them.

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Vixen said:
<fx heavy sigh> Here we go again.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...her-trial-knox

If you'll excuse me, I'd rather watch the movie Homeward Bound II, about talking dogs, on tv, instead. They talk more sense :)

That doesn't look like testimony to me. It looks like another error filled news report. Her testimony is available. Read it.

It is a complete mystery why Vixen does not know the difference between tabloid trash and court testimony. Doesn't she know that responses like these make her look bad?
 
<fx heavy sigh> Here we go again.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/08/kercher-trial-knox

If you'll excuse me, I'd rather watch the movie Homeward Bound II, about talking dogs, on tv, instead. They talk more sense :)

No, that's a newspaper article. It's time you knew the difference between a journalist's report and actual testimony, which, in a criminal case is what a witness questioned by an attorney provides in a court.

So, the link please to Romanelli's testimony in which she states what is claimed please, or, alternatively, your confirmation that you rely instead on the report.
 
Kauffer, the warm washing machine was Filomena's testimony. As she lived there, is a person of excellent character and had no motive to lie, then why not give it weight?

It is a matter of forensic records that various strands of blond and brown hair were found, together with long black hair (presumed Mez') as well as short African type hair.

So, not newspaper hacks "making it all up".
I have just read a smartphone translation of Romanelli's testimony on the pro guilt wiki and I couldn't find any reference to a "warm" washing machine. Was I reading the right testimony? (The one where she talks about how she wanted bars on her windows and how she had sinned (by smoking hashish?)

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If the washing machine had been warm when the police and Filomena arrived, would that be of any significance? What would it mean?

Did they takes prints off the washing machine? Maybe Rudy was doing the laundry. I mean, if we are going to throw crazy scenarios out there, lets include Rudy this time around.

Somehow Rudy slithered out of the focus far too much in this "investigation"....if thats what Migninni and Mascara want to call it.

Rudy should be included in every single scenario, including the laundry and washing machine crap. :D
 
[ ]

I've been wonderin' if it is common for foreigners in Italy
to have to give up their palm print when gettin' an ID residency card?

Reading a personal story titled
Getting an Italian ID Card - not for the feint of heart
here:
http://burntbythetuscansun.blogspot.com/2012/07/getting-italian-id-card-not-for-feint.html
it sure seems to be a hassle gettin' that Italian ID card.

But there's not a mention of givin' up the palm print.
Esh, even Vixen seems to have not had to give up the palm print.

I wonder why "poor Rudy" had his palm print taken?

Might he a been in some trouble with the law
as that early newspaper article that Ken Dine reported.
We know that not everything they reported early was incorrect, ok?


There could only be two explanations why they did such a complete documentation of Guede with all those prints taken in 2005:

1 - they do it with all immigrants when they turn 18 y/o since I think Guede turned 18 around 2005?

2 - Or, Guede was either charged or convicted of a crime (such as the reported knife-fight over drugs), and that may have kicked in a higher level of documentation on him.

Even if Guede had never been convicted of any crimes (perhaps protected by his rich adoptive family), I'm sure the local cops were well aware of Guede prior to the murder.

In any event, the quality of the palm print found at the crime scene was probably too poor to use it to locate Guede as a suspect, but once the police had identified Guede as a possible suspect and had his name, then his palm-print in those files may have been enough to allow the police to confirm Guede was their suspect on Nov 16th, and that may have been all that the cops had initially claimed.

A few days after Nov 16th is when the police finally located Guede's apartment and collected their DNA evidence there, which also linked Guede back to the crime.

According to media accounts at the time, the police were zeroing in on Guede by Nov 10th, but I doubt if they knew his actual name that early.

At first blush the below Nov 10th article implies that Guede was already identified (bolded), yet the highlighted portion deeper into the article makes it clear they still didn't have Guede's name on the 10th:

Fourth suspect in Meredith murder identified

By Malcolm Moore in Rome

11/10/2007

A fourth suspect involved in the killing of British student Meredith Kercher has been identified by police, it emerged today.

The manhunt for another possible killer began after forensic scientists identified a fingerprint in blood on a cushion in the house that did not match any of the three current suspects.

The police now think they can identify him from the footage from three car park security cameras which overlook the house where Miss Kercher was killed.
[ ]
http://s2.excoboard.com/Courthouse_Steps_Mavens/122767/1724692


Based upon the African hairs found at the crime scene as well as the CCTV footage, the police obviously knew their 4th suspect was an African man.

The boys downstairs had an African acquaintance that had visited the cottage once or twice (as reported by both the boys and by Amanda), but they didn't know his real name. From that start, good old fashioned police work could have identified Guede in just a few more days.

E.g., the police could have assembled a photo lineup of all African immigrant males and showed that to the 4 boys.

Or, the police went to the basketball courts and found someone there who knew Guede's name (and got lucky)?

Or, one of the local cops who knew Guede suggested Guede as a possible suspect?

While there were clearly many inept cops with tunnel vision who had early on focused in on Amanda, sometime after Nov 6th when the DNA started coming back with zero matches to Amanda, Raffaele & Lumumba, there were likely some experienced cops on Perugia's police force capable of following traditional leads, which quickly led to the identification and arrest of Guede.

That should have been the end of it, but all-too-powerful Mignini had to play his crazy games, and the rest is history.
 
Ken Dine said:
Based upon the African hairs found at the crime scene as well as the CCTV footage, the police obviously knew their 4th suspect was an African man.

The boys downstairs had an African acquaintance that had visited the cottage once or twice (as reported by both the boys and by Amanda), but they didn't know his real name. From that start, good old fashioned police work could have identified Guede in just a few more days.
E.g., the police could have assembled a photo lineup of all African immigrant males and showed that to the 4 boys.

Or, the police went to the basketball courts and found someone there who knew Guede's name (and got lucky)?

Or, one of the local cops who knew Guede suggested Guede as a possible suspect?

While there were clearly many inept cops with tunnel vision who had early on focused in on Amanda, sometime after Nov 6th when the DNA started coming back with zero matches to Amanda, Raffaele & Lumumba, there were likely some experienced cops on Perugia's police force capable of following traditional leads, which quickly led to the identification and arrest of Guede.

That should have been the end of it, but all-too-powerful Mignini had to play his crazy games, and the rest is history.


Remember Stefano's Bonassi?
You might remember him, he lived downstairs,
his bed and duvet had blood on it,
along with a possible bloody knife handle imprint too.

Here is a snippet of his Nov. 4th deposition:
A: The people who frequented our house was [sic] Peppe, a fellow student at the same department as Marco. Peppe, who must be from the south, very sturdy, about 186 centimeters tall. This person often visited our place. Also, another young man visited our place, nicknamed “the baron,” shorter than myself, whose name I do not remember, of South African origin.

A: One evening, I found the latter person at my place as soon as I came back; he was with my friends. That time, the fellow was really drunk and actually fell asleep on the toilet bowl.

A: That young man was physically attracted to Amanda.

A: Peppe certainly knew Meredith but I’m not sure if the South African guy did.

A: Another young man who came to our place once is a tall, lean young man wearing tennis shoes and baggy pants, nicknamed Body Roga.

A: The tennis shoes often worn by the young man are large, of a large size; I don’t know the brand.

* * *

Stefano tried, on Nov. 2nd, 3rd, + 4th
to help the police solve this horrible crime.
By telling them anything and everythin' he knew.
Unlike Nara C.
Unlike Antonio C.
Unlike Hekuran K.
Unlike Marco Q.

Heck,
Stefano, at that Nov. 4th deposition,
even drew a recreation of 1 of the dudes sneakers who visited his pad, ya know, tryin' to help the cops bust whom ever raped and murdered Miss Kercher:
picture.php
 
Remember Stefano's Bonassi?
You might remember him, he lived downstairs,
his bed and duvet had blood on it,
along with a possible bloody knife handle imprint too.

Here is a snippet of his Nov. 4th deposition:
A: The people who frequented our house was [sic] Peppe, a fellow student at the same department as Marco. Peppe, who must be from the south, very sturdy, about 186 centimeters tall. This person often visited our place. Also, another young man visited our place, nicknamed “the baron,” shorter than myself, whose name I do not remember, of South African origin.

A: One evening, I found the latter person at my place as soon as I came back; he was with my friends. That time, the fellow was really drunk and actually fell asleep on the toilet bowl.

A: That young man was physically attracted to Amanda.

A: Peppe certainly knew Meredith but I’m not sure if the South African guy did.

A: Another young man who came to our place once is a tall, lean young man wearing tennis shoes and baggy pants, nicknamed Body Roga.

A: The tennis shoes often worn by the young man are large, of a large size; I don’t know the brand.

* * *

Stefano tried, on Nov. 2nd, 3rd, + 4th
to help the police solve this horrible crime.
By telling them anything and everythin' he knew.
Unlike Nara C.
Unlike Antonio C.
Unlike Hekuran K.
Unlike Marco Q.

Heck,
Stefano, at that Nov. 4th deposition,
even drew a recreation of 1 of the dudes sneakers who visited his pad, ya know, tryin' to help the cops bust whom ever raped and murdered Miss Kercher:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=10063[/qimg]

Did you never think it odd that police identified the footprints in Mez' room as ladies size 37 and men's size 42, yet Guede took size 45?
 
There could only be two explanations why they did such a complete documentation of Guede with all those prints taken in 2005:

1 - they do it with all immigrants when they turn 18 y/o since I think Guede turned 18 around 2005?

2 - Or, Guede was either charged or convicted of a crime (such as the reported knife-fight over drugs), and that may have kicked in a higher level of documentation on him.

Even if Guede had never been convicted of any crimes (perhaps protected by his rich adoptive family), I'm sure the local cops were well aware of Guede prior to the murder.

In any event, the quality of the palm print found at the crime scene was probably too poor to use it to locate Guede as a suspect, but once the police had identified Guede as a possible suspect and had his name, then his palm-print in those files may have been enough to allow the police to confirm Guede was their suspect on Nov 16th, and that may have been all that the cops had initially claimed.

A few days after Nov 16th is when the police finally located Guede's apartment and collected their DNA evidence there, which also linked Guede back to the crime.

According to media accounts at the time, the police were zeroing in on Guede by Nov 10th, but I doubt if they knew his actual name that early.

At first blush the below Nov 10th article implies that Guede was already identified (bolded), yet the highlighted portion deeper into the article makes it clear they still didn't have Guede's name on the 10th:




Based upon the African hairs found at the crime scene as well as the CCTV footage, the police obviously knew their 4th suspect was an African man.

The boys downstairs had an African acquaintance that had visited the cottage once or twice (as reported by both the boys and by Amanda), but they didn't know his real name. From that start, good old fashioned police work could have identified Guede in just a few more days.

E.g., the police could have assembled a photo lineup of all African immigrant males and showed that to the 4 boys.

Or, the police went to the basketball courts and found someone there who knew Guede's name (and got lucky)?

Or, one of the local cops who knew Guede suggested Guede as a possible suspect?

While there were clearly many inept cops with tunnel vision who had early on focused in on Amanda, sometime after Nov 6th when the DNA started coming back with zero matches to Amanda, Raffaele & Lumumba, there were likely some experienced cops on Perugia's police force capable of following traditional leads, which quickly led to the identification and arrest of Guede.

That should have been the end of it, but all-too-powerful Mignini had to play his crazy games, and the rest is history.

It doesn't work like that. To get the guys downstairs to identify Rudy, they would put him in an identity parade.
 
Remember Stefano's Bonassi?
You might remember him, he lived downstairs,
his bed and duvet had blood on it,
along with a possible bloody knife handle imprint too.

Here is a snippet of his Nov. 4th deposition:
A: The people who frequented our house was [sic] Peppe, a fellow student at the same department as Marco. Peppe, who must be from the south, very sturdy, about 186 centimeters tall. This person often visited our place. Also, another young man visited our place, nicknamed “the baron,” shorter than myself, whose name I do not remember, of South African origin.

A: One evening, I found the latter person at my place as soon as I came back; he was with my friends. That time, the fellow was really drunk and actually fell asleep on the toilet bowl.

A: That young man was physically attracted to Amanda.

A: Peppe certainly knew Meredith but I’m not sure if the South African guy did.

A: Another young man who came to our place once is a tall, lean young man wearing tennis shoes and baggy pants, nicknamed Body Roga.

A: The tennis shoes often worn by the young man are large, of a large size; I don’t know the brand.

* * *

Stefano tried, on Nov. 2nd, 3rd, + 4th
to help the police solve this horrible crime.
By telling them anything and everythin' he knew.
Unlike Nara C.
Unlike Antonio C.
Unlike Hekuran K.
Unlike Marco Q.

Heck,
Stefano, at that Nov. 4th deposition,
even drew a recreation of 1 of the dudes sneakers who visited his pad, ya know, tryin' to help the cops bust whom ever raped and murdered Miss Kercher:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=10063[/qimg]


Unfortunately, on Nov 5th Raffaele had worn Nikes to the police station that had similar (but not identical) soles that Guede had worn during the murder (and had tracked around in Meredith's blood), and once the police noticed similar concentric circles on the soles of Raffaele's Nikes, tunnel-vision set in and the next day they announced "CASE CLOSED!"

It took awhile for the defense to prove that the soles on Raffaele's Nikes didn't exactly match the soles on Guede's Nikes, but eventually the truth of that finally sunk into their deluded noggins, which sent the police scrambling back to the cottage 46 days later to find (contrive) more evidence against Raffaele, thus the bra-clasp came into play.

BTW - according to Guede's diary (if you can believe that), Guede actually claimed he was much more attracted to Meredith, but since Meredith was dating one of the 4 boys, Guede probably only asked about Amanda since Guede didn't know if Amanda already had a boyfriend.
 
If the washing machine had been warm when the police and Filomena arrived, would that be of any significance? What would it mean?

As Mez had been up to fifteen hours dead by then, someone else must have started the machine. All the the other roommates were away, except Amanda. Early reports claimed police heard the cycle just coming to a finish as they arrived and assumed the clothes at Mez' feet were due next in the machine.

All the more bizarre, as Amanda had never once used the machine (prior to that night) in all the six weeks she was there.
 

Look before you go ahead I wanted to know this: if she remembers when she arrived there was a washing machine in operation?
FR:
No, the machine does not ... I mean, I may well repeat the question I apologize, in that sense, if when we arrived, we took the house leased or that morning?
GM:
No, that morning, if there were the shoes?
FR:
Yes, it was loaded.
GM:
He recognized them?
FR:
Later the police station asked me to recognize the role that they were inside the washing machine and I recognized them as if I'm not mistaken role of Meredith.
GM:
All of Meredith.
FR:
The good part yes.
GM:
Look what she has remained so to the police station?
FR:
They came around at 14.00, maybe 15.00, between 14.00 and 15.00 and I left at 6am.
GM:
I wanted about this fact cloths, if I'm not mistaken, I think in the report dated November 7, 2007 she says she does not remember if they were Meredith and Amanda.
FR:
There were some clothes that I could not discern.
GM:
Ah here.
FR:
Most were Meredith, I remember that they showed me to the police station also other clothes I said "This is not ...", type some towels, I remember, but I could not say they belonged to, the shirts was simpler.

She also mentions the washing machine when they went back a couple days later to look at the knives, and also when she was asked again about the clothes and who they belonged to. She doesn't say anything about the washing machine being warm.

So do you even bother to read what you list as a cite?
 
As Mez had been up to fifteen hours dead by then, someone else must have started the machine. All the the other roommates were away, except Amanda. Early reports claimed police heard the cycle just coming to a finish as they arrived and assumed the clothes at Mez' feet were due next in the machine.

All the more bizarre, as Amanda had never once used the machine (prior to that night) in all the six weeks she was there.

No, that's false. The testimony indicates she did use the washing machine. The police testimony I quoted previously indicates they didn't even notice the washing machine when they arrived.
 
As Mez had been up to fifteen hours dead by then, someone else must have started the machine. All the the other roommates were away, except Amanda. Early reports claimed police heard the cycle just coming to a finish as they arrived and assumed the clothes at Mez' feet were due next in the machine.

All the more bizarre, as Amanda had never once used the machine (prior to that night) in all the six weeks she was there.

But the point is that such reports are wrong. There is no testimony from any police officer that the machine was running. Nor was there any testimony from Romanelli that the machine was warm.

There was no evidence put before the court about such matters, nor were there pre trial depositions which referred to them. It is a fiction. Moreover, you have singularly failed to provide one iota of evidence from the sources concerned. Instead you have cited a Guardian report and linked, somewhat deceptively to the Italian language text of Romanelli's testimony, which does not contain the content you think exists.

Here is your chance to produce the evidence you say exists - and you blow it yet again. You make false claims, cannot back them up and do not withdraw them. Later you repeat the same false claims - shameful.
 
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All the more bizarre, as Amanda had never once used the machine (prior to that night) in all the six weeks she was there.

I also heard Filomena had to cut Amanda's food for her into small bite sized pieces like a child. This is why there were two hesitation stab wounds in Meredith before the final slash as Amanda was learning to use a knife for the first time that night.
 
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