Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Strozzi]

Italian police keep a database of non-national residents' fingerprints which was how they managed to identify fingerprints found at the scene with Rudy's. They crossed matched the DNA with that found on his toothbrush, whilst he was on the lam.

Italy have had biometric ID Cards and passports since 2006.

Britain ran a pilot scheme but dropped it.

When I got my Finnish passport and ID card (optional) I went to my local police station in my region and gave my index finger fingerprint (the biometric part embedded in the documents).

I think it's great. It'll be far harder for individuals to steal my Finnish ID than my British one. These two passports are the most powerful in the world. With the Finnish one, I don't need a visa to visit Vietnam.

Most of the supposed short hairs found at the scene turned out to be fibres.

The witness who said a black guy ran into her said it was not Rudy.

The witness provided two items of information apparently many days apart.
Item 1: On the night of the murder at about 10:30 pm a black man running up the steps a few hundred feet from the cottage almost collided with her. That information was provided to the police within a day or two of the discovery of the murder (correct me if I am wrong). That information should have been regarded as important, and should have been noted in the context of what males visited the cottage. The guys downstairs listed Rudi among those they knew who had been around, and in fact reported an incident involving Rudi in unorthodox behavior with a toilet. At that point with two items of information the police should have been trying to speak with this guy, Rudi, aka The Barron.

Item 2 is the witness' later statement saying Rudi is not the man running up the steps at 10:30 pm. When did the police show the witness a photo of Rudi? Was it many days later (possibly 2 weeks or more later)?

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings ya'all,
Even though it seems that Bruce Fischer would like me, and you too,
to spend lots of our free time diggin' into other cases involving horrible rapes, murders,
err make that mis-carriages of justice,
well I just don't feel like it,
ok?

I kinda like it here at The ISF,
its pretty easy to navigate, research,
and read of many other topics of possible interest to me
when I have some free time,
beside just reading of this horrible murder.

And I enjoy pullin' up a chair to the table,
eatin' a well done Hawaiian burger + fries from Islands,
or a Pancho's king taco, some of El Abejeno's carnitas taco's, or a coupla insane Tito's taco's,
or a well done In-N-Out dbl/dbl, or any pasta dish + salad from Fritto Misto
and then readin' of your thoughts on this particular case that we still like to discuss
as I try to not spill any of my grub on my computer's keyboard!

So with that said,
I've been wonderin' if it is common for foreigners in Italy
to have to give up their palm print when gettin' an ID residency card?

Reading a personal story titled
Getting an Italian ID Card - not for the feint of heart
here:
http://burntbythetuscansun.blogspot.com/2012/07/getting-italian-id-card-not-for-feint.html
it sure seems to be a hassle gettin' that Italian ID card.

But there's not a mention of givin' up the palm print.
Esh, even Vixen seems to have not had to give up the palm print.

I wonder why "poor Rudy" had his palm print taken?
Might he a been in some trouble with the law
as that early newspaper article that Ken Dine reported.
We know that not everything they reported early was incorrect, ok?

Heck,
doesn't ol' Vixen write to us that she gives great weight to those early newspaper reports,
ya know the ones, written before folks were tryin' to re-write history,
or whatever the **** she said it was?
Hmmmm.


I've finished eatin' now,
and now it's time to drink, + go mingle.
I'm out, the floor is yours, share some thoughts,
and have your self a great rest of the day!
RW

 

[Vixen]

Greetings ya'all,
Even though it seems that Bruce Fischer would like me, and you too,
to spend lots of our free time diggin' into other cases involving horrible rapes, murders,
err make that mis-carriages of justice,
well I just don't feel like it,
ok?

I kinda like it here at The ISF,
its pretty easy to navigate, research,
and read of many other topics of possible interest to me
when I have some free time,
beside just reading of this horrible murder.

And I enjoy pullin' up a chair to the table,
eatin' a well done Hawaiian burger + fries from Islands,
or a Pancho's king taco, some of El Abejeno's carnitas taco's, or a coupla insane Tito's taco's,
or a well done In-N-Out dbl/dbl, or any pasta dish + salad from Fritto Misto
and then readin' of your thoughts on this particular case that we still like to discuss
as I try to not spill any of my grub on my computer's keyboard!

So with that said,
I've been wonderin' if it is common for foreigners in Italy
to have to give up their palm print when gettin' an ID residency card?

Reading a personal story titled
Getting an Italian ID Card - not for the feint of heart
here:
http://burntbythetuscansun.blogspot.com/2012/07/getting-italian-id-card-not-for-feint.html
it sure seems to be a hassle gettin' that Italian ID card.

But there's not a mention of givin' up the palm print.
Esh, even Vixen seems to have not had to give up the palm print.

I wonder why "poor Rudy" had his palm print taken?
Might he a been in some trouble with the law
as that early newspaper article that Ken Dine reported.
We know that not everything they reported early was incorrect, ok?

Heck,
doesn't ol' Vixen write to us that she gives great weight to those early newspaper reports,
ya know the ones, written before folks were tryin' to re-write history,
or whatever the **** she said it was?
Hmmmm.


I've finished eatin' now,
and now it's time to drink, + go mingle.
I'm out, the floor is yours, share some thoughts,
and have your self a great rest of the day!
RW

I love Mexican/Texan/Cajun. When I was in Tennessee I had the most amazing catfish meal, and another cajun jambalaya concoction mmm, mmm. I even liked that restaurant chain (forget the name) of the type that we in England love to look down on. Local residents petitioned against having a MacDonalds in Hampstead, for example. Today I are be eating a Waitrose ten beans (after already having soaked and bolied them) with rice, peppers, spring onion, tomatoes and sauce, with mozarella grating.

Brits were very resistant to ID passes because of some paranoia about privacy. Biometric ID is largely voluntary in most EU countries and I can see people are resistant to fingerprinting because of the association with criminal records. But hey, it was only your index finger. As I know I will never commit a crime and being proud of my nationality, it was no problem for me. It's the same size as a credit card and my plastic drivers licence, so easier to carry around than a passport.

I would imagine police compared the palm print of several suspects. If Rudy's was already on file, I am not sure why that would be.

I expect it would be more of a "good likeness" as blood would smear any ridge points, as with the footprint on the bathmat.

I give weight to early newspaper reports as they are often folks reporting from the frontline, ground zero, before all the PR guys and lawyers come along to add "spin". It's the human fly on the wall angle. In this case, we get to see police thinking and why they were especially suspicious of Raff, who no way could claim police racism.

 

[Kauffer]

I love Mexican/Texan/Cajun. When I was in Tennessee I had the most amazing catfish meal, and another cajun jambalaya concoction mmm, mmm. I even liked that restaurant chain (forget the name) of the type that we in England love to look down on. Local residents petitioned against having a MacDonalds in Hampstead, for example. Today I are be eating a Waitrose ten beans (after already having soaked and bolied them) with rice, peppers, spring onion, tomatoes and sauce, with mozarella grating.

Brits were very resistant to ID passes because of some paranoia about privacy. Biometric ID is largely voluntary in most EU countries and I can see people are resistant to fingerprinting because of the association with criminal records. But hey, it was only your index finger. As I know I will never commit a crime and being proud of my nationality, it was no problem for me. It's the same size as a credit card and my plastic drivers licence, so easier to carry around than a passport.

I would imagine police compared the palm print of several suspects. If Rudy's was already on file, I am not sure why that would be.

I expect it would be more of a "good likeness" as blood would smear any ridge points, as with the footprint on the bathmat.

I give weight to early newspaper reports as they are often folks reporting from the frontline, ground zero, before all the PR guys and lawyers come along to add "spin". It's the human fly on the wall angle. In this case, we get to see police thinking and why they were especially suspicious of Raff, who no way could claim police racism.

This has been your problem. You have cited many old newspaper reports of claims made about evidence in the case before it came to trial. These reports were substantially wrong. The evidence did not exist. For example, that the washing machine was either on or warm when the police arrived, that Raffaele's bloody shoe prints were found anywhere or Amanda's in Kercher's room, or matched hair samples, etc etc

 

[Vixen]

This has been your problem. You have cited many old newspaper reports of claims made about evidence in the case before it came to trial. These reports were substantially wrong. The evidence did not exist. For example, that the washing machine was either on or warm when the police arrived, that Raffaele's bloody shoe prints were found anywhere or Amanda's in Kercher's room, or matched hair samples, etc etc

Kauffer, the warm washing machine was Filomena's testimony. As she lived there, is a person of excellent character and had no motive to lie, then why not give it weight?

It is a matter of forensic records that various strands of blond and brown hair were found, together with long black hair (presumed Mez') as well as short African type hair.

So, not newspaper hacks "making it all up".

 

[RoseMontague]

Kauffer, the warm washing machine was Filomena's testimony. As she lived there, is a person of excellent character and had no motive to lie, then why not give it weight?

No. It's not part of her testimony.

 

[Kauffer]

Kauffer, the warm washing machine was Filomena's testimony. As she lived there, is a person of excellent character and had no motive to lie, then why not give it weight?

It is a matter of forensic records that various strands of blond and brown hair were found, together with long black hair (presumed Mez') as well as short African type hair.

So, not newspaper hacks "making it all up".

Can you cite Romanelli's testimony? No? Again, this highlights your problems - you believe stories and hearsay and don't bother to check the facts.

And, again, I said matched hair samples. No matched sample = no evidence.

 

[bagels]

Amanda washed her bloody clothes in the magic blood destroying washing machine. The police didn't get to it until it finished the "blood cleansing cycle" so all the blood was permanently erased. Tough break.

 

[Vixen]

No. It's not part of her testimony.

Yes, it was.

 

[RoseMontague]

Yes, it was.

Then quote her testimony from the official transcripts.

 

[Bill Williams]

Kauffer, the warm washing machine was Filomena's testimony. As she lived there, is a person of excellent character and had no motive to lie, then why not give it weight?

It is a matter of forensic records that various strands of blond and brown hair were found, together with long black hair (presumed Mez') as well as short African type hair.

So, not newspaper hacks "making it all up".

Whether or not Filomena did lie is one thing, but she certainly had motive to lie. Hers was a budding legal career at the time and everyone in the cottage was involved with marijuana. Even Meredith was watering the boys pot plants downstairs as most were away for the weekend.

Filomena at trial admited to all this, admitting that she herself, "had sinned". Amanda agreed with Laura to downplay the pot use.

But it shows your bias, Vixen. Filomena was no more or no less believable than anyone else. She was older than the rest, that's all.

She also took her own laptop from behind the crime scene markets.

 

[Vixen]

Then quote her testimony from the official transcripts.

We have been there, the washing machine, done it and got the t-shirt. Do the washing machine search and you'll find the testimony.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda washed her bloody clothes in the magic blood destroying washing machine. The police didn't get to it until it finished the "blood cleansing cycle" so all the blood was permanently erased. Tough break.

What happened to the bag Amanda and Raff said she took round for clothes?

For the umpty-ninth time, please, please, please can someone give me the answer?

 

[RoseMontague]

We have been there, the washing machine, done it and got the t-shirt. Do the washing machine search and you'll find the testimony.

I quoted her testimony regarding the washing machine the last time this came up. Not there. I also quoted the police testimony regarding the washing machine the last time this came up. Not there. I have read her testimony and this washing machine warm when they arrived is not there. Your claim. Prove it.

 

[Bill Williams]

I give weight to early newspaper reports as they are often folks reporting from the frontline, ground zero, before all the PR guys and lawyers come along to add "spin". It's the human fly on the wall angle. In this case, we get to see police thinking and why they were especially suspicious of Raff, who no way could claim police racism.

This has been your problem. You have cited many old newspaper reports of claims made about evidence in the case before it came to trial. These reports were substantially wrong. The evidence did not exist. For example, that the washing machine was either on or warm when the police arrived, that Raffaele's bloody shoe prints were found anywhere or Amanda's in Kercher's room, or matched hair samples, etc etc

Presumably, Vixen now believes that all the trials were all about were, "spin." It's a startling suggestion to make.

As RoseMontague has suggested, the washing machine thing quoted in the early press was not part of Filomena's testimony at trial. So which is "spin"?

As Tim Egan of the NYTimes wrote, when he got to Perugia, he found a gaggle of stringers on site competing with each other for the filing of lurid stories to the British Tabloids. Doing piecework, they all knew they had to spice up their piece just enough to get picked up so that they'd be paid.

A theme of Winterbottom's failed film is how the Nick Pisa's and Barbie Nadeau's of the world simply skewed the story out of all proportion, so that (in W.'s view) perhaps the truth may never be known. (And that was neither Sollecito's nor Knox's fault.)

It's telling that someone who herself participated in writing about this calls the later attempts at writing "spin".

 

[Vixen]

Whether or not Filomena did lie is one thing, but she certainly had motive to lie. Hers was a budding legal career at the time and everyone in the cottage was involved with marijuana. Even Meredith was watering the boys pot plants downstairs as most were away for the weekend.

Filomena at trial admited to all this, admitting that she herself, "had sinned". Amanda agreed with Laura to downplay the pot use.

But it shows your bias, Vixen. Filomena was no more or no less believable than anyone else. She was older than the rest, that's all.

She also took her own laptop from behind the crime scene markets.

Do you really imagine the police in a murder investigation give a darn about pot-smoking students? Even Bill Clinton admitted to it (except he didn't inhale [or so he claims]).

 

[Grinder]

We have been there, the washing machine, done it and got the t-shirt. Do the washing machine search and you'll find the testimony.

If the washing machine had been warm when the police and Filomena arrived, would that be of any significance? What would it mean?

 

[Grinder]

Do you really imagine the police in a murder investigation give a darn about pot-smoking students? Even Bill Clinton admitted to it (except he didn't inhale [or so he claims]).

Well, I do recall Laura was concerned. Perhaps it would be bad for a young legal student.

 

[Bill Williams]

Do you really imagine the police in a murder investigation give a darn about pot-smoking students? Even Bill Clinton admitted to it (except he didn't inhale [or so he claims]).

You're losing the plot, Vixen. Please try to concentrate on one subject at a time.

You said,

As she lived there, is a person of excellent character and had no motive to lie, then why not give it weight?​

Turns out she DID have reason to lie. This is not to say that she did, but someone pursuing a legal career, caught up in a murder case, and having her pot-use exposed.... for pete's sake, Vixen, grab a brain. Laura and Amanda both fibbed about the pot use, esp. Meredith's pot use. Heck, Meredith was watering pot plants for the boys downstairs.

Now, you've wandered into the police interest in this. Filomena had no more ore less character than anyone else in the cottage.

But the issue is as Rose Montague puts it - nowhere in Filomena's testimony does she talk about the washing machine - in contrast to the early tabloid which were making up stuff as thy went along, and reporting every rumour as if it were true.

Sometimes I believe your responses are on a random-post generator. You simply surf from issue to issue blindly.

 

[Kauffer]

We have been there, the washing machine, done it and got the t-shirt. Do the washing machine search and you'll find the testimony.

No testimony found. Where is it?