Heaven Makes No Sense

[AdamSK]

Is the work saving us poor heathens?

I wouldn't put it quite that way, but certainly sharing the Gospel is part of the work, yes.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Yup. See also the "Is Heaven Supposed to be Literally in the Sky?" thread, where I basically commented why this question was ridiculous in the first place, considering that the whole concept of Heaven makes no sense, and each person gives it a completely different and subjective meaning. And yet, some atheists disagreed with me on this, as if the concept of Heaven (or pretty much any Religious concept) was actually consistent.

 

[CJW]

Heaven is exactly like where you are right now, only much, much better.

So you're saying my spreadsheets won't be full of circular references any more? Sign me up!

 

[PartSkeptic]

Heaven. Don't knock it until you have visited. Like any other place.

No body. No pain. No hunger. No taxes. No fear. No illness. No need for money. It is the absence of the negatives that makes it so great. Serenity and bliss. Spirits floating like billowing clouds in the sky.

Hell. That I have to imagine is the opposite. Pain. Hunger. Fear. Creepy Crawlies.

But it is not either one or the other. Rather like an upmarket suburb that transitions into the squalor of urban decay.

Hint: Buying your staircase to Heaven is done not with dollars or gold.

 

[tsig]

Heaven. Don't knock it until you have visited. Like any other place.

No body. No pain. No hunger. No taxes. No fear. No illness. No need for money. It is the absence of the negatives that makes it so great. Serenity and bliss. Spirits floating like billowing clouds in the sky. Hell. That I have to imagine is the opposite. Pain. Hunger. Fear. Creepy Crawlies.

But it is not either one or the other. Rather like an upmarket suburb that transitions into the squalor of urban decay.

Hint: Buying your staircase to Heaven is done not with dollars or gold.

Sounds like Heroin or a real good acid trip.

 

[Leumas]

Heaven. Don't knock it until you have visited. Like any other place.

No body. No pain. No hunger. No taxes. No fear. No illness. No need for money. It is the absence of the negatives that makes it so great. Serenity and bliss. Spirits floating like billowing clouds in the sky.

Hell. That I have to imagine is the opposite. Pain. Hunger. Fear. Creepy Crawlies.

But it is not either one or the other. Rather like an upmarket suburb that transitions into the squalor of urban decay.

Hint: Buying your staircase to Heaven is done not with dollars or gold.

Sounds like Heroin or a real good acid trip.

[IMGw=350]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Escher%27s_Relativity.jpg[/IMGw]

[IMGw=350]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg[/IMGw]

 

[GT/CS]

Heaven. Don't knock it until you have visited. Like any other place.

No body. No pain. No hunger. No taxes. No fear. No illness. No need for money. It is the absence of the negatives that makes it so great. Serenity and bliss. Spirits floating like billowing clouds in the sky.

Hell. That I have to imagine is the opposite. Pain. Hunger. Fear. Creepy Crawlies.

But it is not either one or the other. Rather like an upmarket suburb that transitions into the squalor of urban decay.

Hint: Buying your staircase to Heaven is done not with dollars or gold.

Holy crap Heaven sounds boring!!

Hint: Mormons buy their way into Heaven with dollars and gold. Are you saying the Mormons are wrong??!!!

 

[CJW]

Heaven. Don't knock it until you have visited. Like any other place.

No body. No pain. No hunger. No taxes. No fear. No illness. No need for money. It is the absence of the negatives that makes it so great. Serenity and bliss. Spirits floating like billowing clouds in the sky.
Hell. That I have to imagine is the opposite. Pain. Hunger. Fear. Creepy Crawlies.

But it is not either one or the other. Rather like an upmarket suburb that transitions into the squalor of urban decay.

Hint: Buying your staircase to Heaven is done not with dollars or gold.

So no sense of the individual you've worked your entire life to create - what happens to that person?

 

[Rincewind]

Heaven. Don't knock it until you have visited. Like any other place.

No body. No pain. No hunger. No taxes. No fear. No illness. No need for money. It is the absence of the negatives that makes it so great. Serenity and bliss. Spirits floating like billowing clouds in the sky.

Hell. That I have to imagine is the opposite. Pain. Hunger. Fear. Creepy Crawlies.

But it is not either one or the other. Rather like an upmarket suburb that transitions into the squalor of urban decay.

Hint: Buying your staircase to Heaven is done not with dollars or gold.

So you've been there then?

Just visiting?

 

[Fellow Traveler]

Maybe Heaven is just a good five cent cigar.

 

[nota]

nobody is in heaven yet

well three guys who's name begins with E got in
but that is it for now
the 3 who god took up alive in the old ''T'' are the only occupants currently

the followers of JC doNOT gain admittance until the TRUMP
so heaven is empty except for the 3 E guys now
and the dead are on a long dirt nap waiting on the trump

sorry believers but that is the rule according to your book

so I guess the eternal life promised has a catch to it
and it does not begin at death but only at some unknown future date

anyway the sinners are much more fun
but I am unsure if they are in hell yet ether
as judgement day is also a future event tied to the trump or even later events
and I donot think the dirt nappers are having a lot of fun currently

funny believe system anyway

 

[Craig B]

In the Garden of Eden humans were gardeners and since in heaven humans will be returned to pre-Fall conditions it looks like an eternity toiling in the hot sun.

The very opposite. They became gardeners in the sense of "horticultural workers" only in consequence of the Fall. Before that they plucked food without the need for toil.

 

[nota]

maybe donalds election will be the TRUMP ?

IF THERE WAS NO GARDEN NO ADAM OR EVE
OR TALKING SNAKE
SO NO ORIGINAL SIN

WHY DO WE NEED JC ?

BTW where is the angel with a flaming sword guarding the entrance
I bet that would be a major tourist attraction

 

[nota]

heaven is nearly empty
so is hell
what are the dirt nappers doing for fun ?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

heaven is nearly empty
so is hell
what are the dirt nappers doing for fun ?

Holding parties underground or in some nearby mountain cave, if the norse icelandic sagas are to be trusted

Kinda puts a literal spin on going to an underground party, innit?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Holy crap Heaven sounds boring!!

Hint: Mormons buy their way into Heaven with dollars and gold. Are you saying the Mormons are wrong??!!!

Well, it probably won't come as news that nearly every Xian sect believes that even the other 2000 or so Xian sects aren't reading the book just right. Something like mormonism? Hell, most wouldn't even consider it to be proper Xianity, much less right about anything

 

[Fellow Traveler]

If Christ saved us, why is it we are supposed to seek salvation?

 

[Robin]

As usual, I can't see the point being made.

Is it that the Bible says some funny things, especially when you read it even more literally than a fundie would?

Or is it that a maximally intelligent powerful being, if such a thing existed, could not possibly manage to see to it that there is a non temporal context in which intelligent empathetic beings can interact and be fulfilled?

Is time the only context in which intelligent empathetic interactions are possible?

Maybe, but saying "it sounds boring" or "you would long for death" do not make sense as criticisms of the idea, given that a maximally intelligent being might also have thought of those considerations.

And the dirt nappers, according to Christian beliefs, are dead. They are not conscious and so they don't need to do anything for fun.

If this were true (which it is not) then you would die and the next thing you would know you would be heading for the judgement, so it is not really a problem for Christians that the afterlife does not start straight away because it would, in terms of your own experience, start straight away - just as during general anasthesia there is no wait between the nurse putting a needle in your arm and counting backwards and then saying "How are you feeling?"

 

[Robin]

Suppose there was a maximally intelligent, maximally good being, creator of all things except for herself and mathematics.

So she takes a look at the International Skeptics Forum and reads that heaven would be a boring place where people would long for death.

She slaps her forehead and says "He's right, you know - I never thought of that!".

Well, no, I don't think so. You have got to consider that if there were a maximally intelligent, maximally good being that she might be maximally intelligent and maximally good.

 

[PartSkeptic]

So you've been there then?

Just visiting?

It felt like it. It seemed like I was with my late wife who had just passed away at that time.

The strange thing is that I thought it would be boring also, but it was not. Time is not the same anyhow.

Having never had heroin I cannot cannot comment on the comparison.

As for losing ones personality, that is actually what one keeps. The essence of who one is. The rest is just dross that falls away. The memories fade.

And then at some time one is reborn into a new physical embryo to guide its development, and to learn and evolve even more.

You guys don't think that simple molecules can form the incredible complexity of intelligent life without guidance do you? Spirits evolve - basic logic. If Earth had primitive primates then those primitive primates had primitive souls. All designs evolve.