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US Earnings discrepancy between men and women - is it a problem?

pharphis

Master Poster
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Feb 15, 2014
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2,169
Ok, I'm sure this has been covered many times in many different ways. What I'd like to do is narrow the discussion to one specific question (or few).

My understand is that the "pay gap" of 78/100 is worthless because it doesn't take into account things like hours worked, job, etc. and that a much smaller figure (5-7% difference?) takes into account MOST of the most obvious variables for any earnings discrepancy. I'm not sure just how small the figure gets but I'd also be interested in this for anyone who knows.

I know that there are other factors that can be in play such as negotiating for a starting salary and ofc the factor that we SHOULD look at each industry individually, but it's just easier talking in aggregate for the most part.

So my question is: IF there is some small discrepancy that is unaccounted for to date (say ~1-5%), IS it a problem and WHY?

I know people will assume sexism for the unknown but I think it's fair to say that it's an argument from ignorance to do so, so I hope we can avoid that.

I've also heard that women have higher job satisfaction, are hired preferably in STEM fields, and other issues that are typically ignored in these conversations. I've had a few conversations recently and although I try to keep it polite and as simple as "please explain WHY it's a problem" it boils down to calling me a misogynist with virginity-induced fury, neither of which is true.

One other thing I've heard is that women have higher job satisfaction, as well, which makes me wonder if women just tend to value enjoyable jobs more than money (I know I would, as a male).

Thanks
 
Maybe it's nothing to do with sex, just height. OK, height can't take all the credit but maybe some of it. Women are several inches shorter than men on average and it has been proven in numerous studies that the taller a man is, on average and all things being equal, the more he earns. A 2003 report by Timothy Judge in the US concluded an increase in 6 inches for a short man would raise his annual pay by $5.25K. None of this explains the French presidents but maybe they just don't earn that much.
 
Oh dear...not this again. Just merge it with the other thread and put it out of it's misery.

Which thread? I'm only aware of the feminism+gaming one.

I will say that I recall Kevin (lowe?) stating his position but not quit ting providing justification (imo) for why this discrepancy is a problem a few months ago and I'm just thinking about it again and am hoping someone will provide some sort of satisfactory answer or at least something I can understand even if I disagree with it.
 
Which thread? I'm only aware of the feminism+gaming one.

I will say that I recall Kevin (lowe?) stating his position but not quit ting providing justification (imo) for why this discrepancy is a problem a few months ago and I'm just thinking about it again and am hoping someone will provide some sort of satisfactory answer or at least something I can understand even if I disagree with it.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292005

If you want peer reviewed analysis, open up google scholar and try some search terms. The wage gap varies widely across time, country, and cultures and has been analyzed to within an inch of it's life.
 
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292005

If you want peer reviewed analysis, open up google scholar and try some search terms. The wage gap varies widely across time, country, and cultures and has been analyzed to within an inch of it's life.

I don't have the time to skim the entire thread and feel like it is probably not focused on the problem I'm interested in answering, but just to save some time. . . do you remember my question being brought up and addressed?

(it also seems I commented a little bit in that thread towards the end but only regarding a number)
 
I must be missing some aspect of the opening post because, if someone shorted my salary by 5% and said "well, we cannot precisely account for the shortage, it may have something to do with your being very satisfied with your job. The only thing we are sure of is that from now on you will always be making less", it sure as **** would be a problem!


ETA
but then again, I am like the Capuchin monkey in the grape/cucumber experiment, fairness is a very, very important value in my life.
 
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I must be missing some aspect of the opening post because, if someone shorted my salary by 5% and said "well, we cannot precisely account for the shortage, it may have something to do with your being very satisfied with your job. The only thing we are sure of is that from now on you will always be making less", it sure as **** would be a problem!


ETA
but then again, I am like the Capuchin monkey in the grape/cucumber experiment, fairness is a very, very important value in my life.

That suggests that the disparity is due to conscious decisions made by employers and recognized by them. I highly doubt that it is the case in more than a small handful of sexist employers
 
That suggests that the disparity is due to conscious decisions made by employers and recognized by them. I highly doubt that it is the case in more than a small handful of sexist employers


And if it was done on that basis it would be illegal.
 
I must be missing some aspect of the opening post because, if someone shorted my salary by 5% and said "well, we cannot precisely account for the shortage, it may have something to do with your being very satisfied with your job. The only thing we are sure of is that from now on you will always be making less", it sure as **** would be a problem!


ETA
but then again, I am like the Capuchin monkey in the grape/cucumber experiment, fairness is a very, very important value in my life.

The OP was suggesting something more like this: two employers each offer you a job. One has a salary which is 5% higher than the other, but the one offering a lower salary is offering you a job that you would enjoy more.

He's suggesting that men are more likely to go for the higher paying job whereas women are more likely to go for the job with greater overall satisfaction.
 
I don't write very well so that might be the problem. And just to be clear, I'm not saying I think this is THE answer to what leads to the discrepancy but I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of many factors. It is one reason why I ask myself the question highlighted in the OP, though, since while there may be an unaccounted-for economic discrepancy there are discrepancies in other areas between the sexes that I never hear anyone talking about or wanting to "fix" and ofc which may ultimately not be worthwhile trying to fix in the first place.

That last point comes from my belief that at least some of our cultural norms arise through biology (women as caregivers, for example)
 
Ok, I'm sure this has been covered many times in many different ways. What I'd like to do is narrow the discussion to one specific question (or few). <snip>
Too many "I heard" or "I understand" to reply. Needs some links.

but then again, I am like the Capuchin monkey in the grape/cucumber experiment, fairness is a very, very important value in my life.
:confused:
 

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