Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Antony]

Perugian Police thinking:

If there is no evidence that proves what we know they obviously cleaned it away, as well as cleaning away the evidence of cleaning away the evidence.

If any evidence we have is disproven we will just wait 46 days and make up evidence to replace it.

Don't forget the bit which says, "if there is evidence of break-in then they staged it."

 

[Desert Fox]

This (highlighted) is a recurring feature of miscarriages of justice. It's one of the things that straight off led me to see this case for what it was. (The other was the "confession/accusation" resulting from an illegal all-night interrogation.)

I am sure that if I was interrogated the way which many of these defenanats have, I would confess myself. I have trouble with people who argue taht they will never confess.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Guede took clothes off hangers and threw them on the floor in the lawyer's office he broke into, coincidentally also by smashing the glass with a large rock and climbing up from the floor below. The lawyer speculated it was to cover the glass so he wouldn't inadvertently walk on it, but maybe it's just one of Guede's weird tics.

Or maybe he's a theatrical kind of guy.

 

[Strozzi]

I'm enjoying the debate, folks.


Machiavelli,
if you have a moment,
please have a read here from ol' Nara's testimony while conversing with the presiding judge in The Massei Trial, ok?


GCM:
Excuse me, this prolonged (scream), can you describe it better?

NC:
Well, it wasn't like a scream for help, it didn't sound like “Help!” no, it was a cry .. how can I describe it ... aaahhhh, a long scream.

This link works:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...timony_(English)#Nara_Capezzali.27s_Testimony

Yep, it figures. The sound Nara described at trial a year later sounds like squeaky brakes.

I wonder how often Nara is awoken by cars, trucks, or buses making loud noise as they break or accelerate as they pass her building at night.

 

[Grinder]

To be clear, Guede's DNA on Meredith's purse was NOT touch DNA, but rather, Guede's DNA on both Meredith's purse and sweatshirt were extracted from samples of Guede's blood found on those items.

That's not what the link says and I've never seen or heard of Rudi's blood being found at the crime scene or his apartment.

In Batch 5 (29 December 2007-early January 2008, not attended by defense observers), the lab isolated two blood-positive samples bearing Guede’s profile. These new samples were from Kercher’s purse and sweatshirt, indicating that Guede had handled, and perhaps bled on these items at the time of the murder.​

If the PGP make the same claim about Amanda's blood mixed with Meredith's based on the same findings, it would be rejected here.

I very much doubt he was bleeding or they would have found it at his apartment if no where else. Maybe I forgot about them finding it at his apartment.

The thing is that I paid attention to this because of the healing cuts found in Germany. I believe they were self inflicted to conform with the "blond Italian" attacker and his fight with him.

The source is hardly neutral on the subject yet even there it is only a "perhaps" as for Rudi bleeding. It certainly isn't surprising that there would be blood on those item, but almost for sure Meredith's.

 

[Grinder]

Yep, it figures. The sound Nara described at trial a year later sounds like squeaky brakes.

I wonder how often Nara is awoken by cars, trucks, or buses making loud noise as they break or accelerate as they pass her building at night.

She wasn't awoken in our case. She got up to pee and then heard the scream.

It is such a stupid issue as she didn't witness or hear anything specific. A scream that wasn't significant enough to call the police. Footsteps on the stairs and leaves. At maybe 11 pm. Her testimony has no probative value even if totally accurate.

 

[Strozzi]

Don't forget the bit which says, "if there is evidence of break-in then they staged it."

Don't forget that if a large knife seized at random from a witness' kitchen drawer does not match the blade length or width of a bloody knifeprint on the victim's bed sheet, then ... wait, wait, let me think, ah . . . I got it. There must be two knives.
Idiot accusers! Italy deserves better.

 

[acbytesla]

That's not what the link says and I've never seen or heard of Rudi's blood being found at the crime scene or his apartment.

In Batch 5 (29 December 2007-early January 2008, not attended by defense observers), the lab isolated two blood-positive samples bearing Guede’s profile. These new samples were from Kercher’s purse and sweatshirt, indicating that Guede had handled, and perhaps bled on these items at the time of the murder.​

If the PGP make the same claim about Amanda's blood mixed with Meredith's based on the same findings, it would be rejected here.

I very much doubt he was bleeding or they would have found it at his apartment if no where else. Maybe I forgot about them finding it at his apartment.

The thing is that I paid attention to this because of the healing cuts found in Germany. I believe they were self inflicted to conform with the "blond Italian" attacker and his fight with him.

The source is hardly neutral on the subject yet even there it is only a "perhaps" as for Rudi bleeding. It certainly isn't surprising that there would be blood on those item, but almost for sure Meredith's.

I agree. I think there is plenty of evidence of Rudy without having to use questionable evidence.

 

[Strozzi]

That's not what the link says and I've never seen or heard of Rudi's blood being found at the crime scene or his apartment.

In Batch 5 (29 December 2007-early January 2008, not attended by defense observers), the lab isolated two blood-positive samples bearing Guede’s profile. These new samples were from Kercher’s purse and sweatshirt, indicating that Guede had handled, and perhaps bled on these items at the time of the murder.​

If the PGP make the same claim about Amanda's blood mixed with Meredith's based on the same findings, it would be rejected here.

I very much doubt he was bleeding or they would have found it at his apartment if no where else. Maybe I forgot about them finding it at his apartment.

The thing is that I paid attention to this because of the healing cuts found in Germany. I believe they were self inflicted to conform with the "blond Italian" attacker and his fight with him.
The source is hardly neutral on the subject yet even there it is only a "perhaps" as for Rudi bleeding. It certainly isn't surprising that there would be blood on those item, but almost for sure Meredith's.

Grinder, this is the first I have heard of this theory. I understood the cut was across the underside of the fingers of his right hand, where a slice would be if his grip slipped down the knife blade. That does not seem a reasonable place for someone self-inflicting a knife wound on himself in order to make it appear he was cut fighting an attacker. Did anyone who saw him dancing late that night report seeing Rudi with a hand wound? Would such a wound be readily observable?

 

[Grinder]

I agree. I think there is plenty of evidence of Rudy without having to use questionable evidence.

Thanks Tesla but I'm ancious to get any new facts that are now coming available. As I said upstream, I've thought that Rudi cut his own hands to go with the Italian intruder fable. If he did bleed, that would change.

Much seems to be coming out now. I had never heard that Nara was deposed on Nov. 27th meaning she went public before that. For years I and other have thought she only was found by the TV station months later. While her testimony remains worthless I wished we would have corrected years ago.

 

[Vixen]

You're trying to take limited information and reconstruct from a very stochastic past a perfect linear order of events. It's impossible, unless you have a video camera. There's all sorts of different object interactions at different times that will leave the same or similar results after the fact. Rudy places the pillow down, then drags Meredith onto it, and steps on it in the process. Or the pillow was grabbed or knocked around during the struggle and falls to the ground where it is stepped on. Or some other sequence of events. Same for the footprint gap. Maybe Rudy stepped on something else in that spot that was later inadvertently moved, I seem to remember a lot of junk in the Hallway. Or maybe the police missed it before it was cleaned, or maybe something else. Or maybe the unexplained footprint gap means the American girl you hate did it.

So did Rudy read the same manga comics as Raff?

 

[Grinder]

Grinder, this is the first I have heard of this theory. I understood the cut was across the underside of the fingers of his right hand, where a slice would be if his grip slipped down the knife blade. That does not seem a reasonable place for someone self-inflicting a knife wound on himself in order to make it appear he was cut fighting an attacker. Did anyone who saw him dancing late that night report seeing Rudi with a hand wound? Would such a wound be readily observable?

I believe the cuts would have been consistent with his fighting with the "true" killer. Putting up his hands to grab the knife.

No reports were made AFAIK that he had bandaged hands and it isn't credible to me that he would go out with cuts all over his hands. There reports IIRC that he smelled badly.

 

[Grinder]

So did Rudy read the same manga comics as Raff?

Perhaps you might ask Catnip over at .org as he/she seems to be an expert in the field even to the extent of knowing that Raf's wasn't a collectors edition.

Manga sales are over 100 million a year. How many manga murders?

 

[acbytesla]

Thanks Tesla but I'm ancious to get any new facts that are now coming available. As I said upstream, I've thought that Rudi cut his own hands to go with the Italian intruder fable. If he did bleed, that would change.

Much seems to be coming out now. I had never heard that Nara was deposed on Nov. 27th meaning she went public before that. For years I and other have thought she only was found by the TV station months later. While her testimony remains worthless I wished we would have corrected years ago.

I'm interested too.its amazing at the new things we are learning. I agree with what you said about Nara in your earlier post in that she didn't offer anything probative.

 

[Diocletus]

That's not what the link says and I've never seen or heard of Rudi's blood being found at the crime scene or his apartment.

In Batch 5 (29 December 2007-early January 2008, not attended by defense observers), the lab isolated two blood-positive samples bearing Guede’s profile. These new samples were from Kercher’s purse and sweatshirt, indicating that Guede had handled, and perhaps bled on these items at the time of the murder.​

If the PGP make the same claim about Amanda's blood mixed with Meredith's based on the same findings, it would be rejected here.

I very much doubt he was bleeding or they would have found it at his apartment if no where else. Maybe I forgot about them finding it at his apartment.

The thing is that I paid attention to this because of the healing cuts found in Germany. I believe they were self inflicted to conform with the "blond Italian" attacker and his fight with him.

The source is hardly neutral on the subject yet even there it is only a "perhaps" as for Rudi bleeding. It certainly isn't surprising that there would be blood on those item, but almost for sure Meredith's.

There are lots of places where Rudy's blood might be found. For starters, the knife handle. Also, the palm print on the pillow. In Kerchers vagina. On the door handle. In the purse.

Luminol was used in guedes apartment, but we don't know the results.

The only reason we can't prove guedes blood is because CSI was incompetent.

 

[bagels]

I'm not sure I believe we can get into the heads of other human beings and disect their actions. There is no proof that Amanda covered Meredith's body.


The rest is just speculation.

I know but Mach tries to and he does a poor and inconsistent job of it. Amanda stages theatrics but then covers the body. Amanda closes everything up so it's all hidden, but then leaves the front door open. Amanda stages a break-in through a window but then tells the police the killer walked in through the front door.

There's no inconsistencies with Rudy's actions from the day of the murder to his rambling tall tales after, it's all simple, straight forward, and unsurprising.

 

[acbytesla]

I know but Mach tries to and he does a poor and inconsistent job of it. Amanda stages theatrics but then covers the body. Amanda closes everything up so it's all hidden, but then leaves the front door open. Amanda stages a break-in through a window but then tells the police the killer walked in through the front door.

There's no inconsistencies with Rudy's actions from the day of the murder to his rambling tall tales after, it's all simple, straight forward, and unsurprising.

That's Mach and the guilters. It all based on their imaginstion. Not on the evidence. I think we can maybe imagine what happened that evening to some degree, but I hate to see us put any stock in suggesting we actually know.

For example, I have always believed that Rudy broke in through Filomena's window and then after looking around he went into the john and then Meredith entered. But you know, it might not have happened anything like that. Maybe Rudy through the rock through the window and waited in the bushes looking to see if anyone was alerted by the breaking glass. And then Meredith came home and he just followed her into the cottage and attacked her.

I guess my point is we really don't know and the evidence only tells us so much. I think it's dangerous to think we can actually fill in the holes.

 

[Grinder]

There are lots of places where Rudy's blood might be found. For starters, the knife handle. Also, the palm print on the pillow. In Kerchers vagina. On the door handle. In the purse.

Luminol was used in guedes apartment, but we don't know the results.

The only reason we can't prove guedes blood is because CSI was incompetent.

Would that also be true for Amanda? The point is that no blood of Rudi was identified as stated in the earlier post.

I don't believe he was cut, but OMO.

But anyway Rudi's blood wasn't found and that was the question or the assertion depending on which post.

 

[acbytesla]

I just read a very interesting article in the Daily Beast .. (of all places) about misogyny and the Anne Hathaway haters. I couldn't help but think that same type of cultural phenomenon is driving the crazies that have persecuted Amanda on the Internet.I highly recommend it
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ay-and-our-culture-of-celebrity-misogyny.html

Hathahate is apparently being used as a bonding mechanism, bringing together lonely, anonymous Internet avatars by the almighty power of aggressive cyberbullying. The New York Times quoted Dr. P.M. Forni on the Hathahate phenomenon: “The sensation of belonging to a group of like-minded people activates the pleasure centers of the brain,” Forni said. “So at a certain point, something like what has happened to Ms. Hathaway acquired momentum, and people were willing and eager to be part of that momentum.” Dr. Jack Goncalo added that Hathahate is just another example of mob mentality, saying, “people don’t want to think.”

 

[Diocletus]

Would that also be true for Amanda? The point is that no blood of Rudi was identified as stated in the earlier post.

I don't believe he was cut, but OMO.

But anyway Rudi's blood wasn't found and that was the question or the assertion depending on which post.

He said he was cut. And there's a picture, curtesy of the German cops, of the cuts. And common sense tells us that this aggressor would likely have suffered such cuts due to the nature if the stabbing. And there are numerous places where he may well have bled, we just can't be sure because the investigators were incompetent. Not sure what else you require, or what you base your opinion on, but investigatory incompetence doesn't negate the other facts.

The same is not true for Amanda because she had no open wounds, didnt say she was cut, and was not at the scene of the crime.