Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Mr Fied]

I have a feeling that whomever discovered the body would be the immediate suspect. The Perugia police seem to have a very simple view towards crime.

One thought I have is that it is argued that Amanda was able to get all of teh blood off herself and her clothes. At the same time, there is the argument that she smelled and had not taken a shower. These seem to strongly conflict with each other.

Perugian Police thinking:

If there is no evidence that proves what we know they obviously cleaned it away, as well as cleaning away the evidence of cleaning away the evidence.

If any evidence we have is disproven we will just wait 46 days and make up evidence to replace it.

 

[Mr Fied]

Mignini and Machiavelli want people to believe that A & R are so clever that they stage a break-in and clean up all DNA traces of themselves while leaving Rudi's DNA, shoe prints, etc, (and then wipe away all swirl evidence of their cleanup), yet in the morning Amanda walks through the town past residences and shops carrying a mop and bucket for everyone to see. Fantasy world!

And hang around the following morning for the shops to open to buy cleaning supplies.

 

[sept79]

.
.
.
4) . . . putting all of the above together, it's manifestly obvious that no sane court should ever have found Knox or Sollecito guilty. Fortunately for them (and for justice), the Italian Supreme Court has ultimately come to its senses and come to the same (entirely correct and just) decision.
.
.
.

What was it/what is it with Matteini, Micheli, Massei, Cheffi, and Nencini that they were so willing to convict in spite of the obviously bogus scientific 'evidence', the lack of evidence of presence, and the lack of a motive?

 

[Grinder]

I have a feeling that whomever discovered the body would be the immediate suspect. The Perugia police seem to have a very simple view towards crime.

One thought I have is that it is argued that Amanda was able to get all of teh blood off herself and her clothes. At the same time, there is the argument that she smelled and had not taken a shower. These seem to strongly conflict with each other.

I think that all police look at the first reporters as possible suspects. Not only was she able to get rid of all the blood but also keep it out of Raf's flat and car. The mysterious 37 shoe print doesn't match any shoe manufactured or any shoe missing from Amanda's possession.

And hang around the following morning for the shops to open to buy cleaning supplies.

The PGP had to change their tune when the bleach receipt rumor turned out to be false. They then converted it to stealing mop heads. Where they disposed of the one they used to mop up isn't spoken of.

On we have the claim that the mop was positive for blood or DNA but I've yet to see any credible source for that. I will say that the mop use at that time was an unfortunate coincidence.

It remains that the PGP would be well served to drop AC, Nara, Q and even AM as witnesses. They make it impossible to fit the kids into a timeline. As an example, they must say that Curatolo was wrong that he saw them every time he looked up but that he wasn't wrong about them or the night he saw them.

 

[Desert Fox]

What was it/what is it with Matteini, Micheli, Massei, Cheffi, and Nencini that they were so willing to convict in spite of the obviously bogus scientific 'evidence', the lack of evidence of presence, and the lack of a motive?

Why was the state so willing to convict the Norfolk Four, West Memphis Three, Russ Faria, Jim Barton, Ryan Furgeson, Nyki Kish, Kirstin Blaise Lobato, David camm, etc?

 

[Desert Fox]

The PGP had to change their tune when the bleach receipt rumor turned out to be false. They then converted it to stealing mop heads. Where they disposed of the one they used to mop up isn't spoken of.

I have still heard those on the pro guilt side bring up a bleach receipt?

 

[Bill Williams]

I have still heard those on the pro guilt side bring up a bleach receipt?

Michael on .NET claims to have a pic of it. The one he once produced said, "pizza".

 

[Mr Fied]

I think that all police look at the first reporters as possible suspects. Not only was she able to get rid of all the blood but also keep it out of Raf's flat and car. The mysterious 37 shoe print doesn't match any shoe manufactured or any shoe missing from Amanda's possession.




The PGP had to change their tune when the bleach receipt rumor turned out to be false. They then converted it to stealing mop heads. Where they disposed of the one they used to mop up isn't spoken of. On we have the claim that the mop was positive for blood or DNA but I've yet to see any credible source for that. I will say that the mop use at that time was an unfortunate coincidence.
It remains that the PGP would be well served to drop AC, Nara, Q and even AM as witnesses. They make it impossible to fit the kids into a timeline. As an example, they must say that Curatolo was wrong that he saw them every time he looked up but that he wasn't wrong about them or the night he saw them.

Surely if the mop had proved positive for blood, as Mach has stated, they would have made a bit more of this in court.

I doubt they thought the case was so clear cut that they didn't need evidence like this.

 

[Grinder]

Surely if the mop had proved positive for blood, as Mach has stated, they would have made a bit more of this in court.

I doubt they thought the case was so clear cut that they didn't need evidence like this.

Btw is your name mystified

The PGP claim that Massei was being nice to the kids and left out evidence as part of the kindness.

 

[Mr Fied]

Btw is your name mystified

The PGP claim that Massei was being nice to the kids and left out evidence as part of the kindness.

Yes. It seemed appropriate after Massei.

I would love to see the evidence that was left out.

If the evidence that was presented was the best they had, the stuff that was left out must be hilarious.

 

[RWVBWL]

HELP!!!
or
AHHHH!!!

I don't believe a sane person could ever write this post.

I'm enjoying the debate, folks.


Machiavelli,
if you have a moment,
please have a read here from ol' Nara's testimony while conversing with the presiding judge in The Massei Trial, ok?


GCM:
Excuse me, this prolonged (scream), can you describe it better?

NC:
Well, it wasn't like a scream for help, it didn't sound like “Help!”
no, it was a cry .. how can I describe it ... aaahhhh, a long scream.


This link works:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...timony_(English)#Nara_Capezzali.27s_Testimony

 

[Ken Dine]

Mr. Dine,

Could you give the link to Rudi's blood being found. I know his palm print in blood was found and DNA I didn't know his blood was found.

Thanks

I did leave the link – here it is again:

To be clear, Guede's DNA on Meredith's purse was NOT touch DNA, but rather, Guede's DNA on both Meredith's purse and sweatshirt were extracted from samples of Guede's blood found on those items.

I.e., in the process of stabbing Meredith to death, Guede had cut his own hand and subsequently had bled on those items. The pictures of Guede's hands taken by the German police proves that Guede had cut his own hands.

Of course, Guede claims that Raffaele had cut his hand as Raffaele fled the cottage after murdering Meredith, but that doesn't explain why Guede then went and touched Meredith's purse and sweatshirt leaving his blood behind on those items after Raffaele had supposedly fled.

As for stealing Meredith's rent money, there's only strong circumstantial evidence for that:

1 - Meredith's rent money was missing.

2 - Guede had money to go dancing and drinking later that night, and Guede also had money to buy tickets to flee to Germany the next day.

3 - Guede left his blood, along with Meredith's blood, on her purse, as well as in other places in her bedroom.

4 - the garage's CCTV had captured Guede fleeing the cottage after the murder (as well as walking towards the cottage before the murder), but no CCTV security cameras had captured Amanda or Raffaele out and about that night.





Guede had left his blood behind on Meredith's purse, but how does that fact further your 'Guilter' delusions?

There's a BIG difference between finding a few cells (LCN-DNA) of Raffaele's on a bra-clasp (which likely was from contamination), compared to finding massive amounts of Guede's DNA in the form of his own blood on Meredith's purse!

The Investigation of Rudy Guede’s DNA Trail:

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/guede-dna-investigation/

BTW - do you have a citation to support your claim that her purse was taken into evidence 46 days later?

Meredith's bra-clasp and jacket were both indeed clearly bagged 46 days late, but even so, Guede's dried blood was on the jacket (which doesn't sound like contamination), as well as Guede's blood found on Meredith's purse, which again couldn't be from contamination.

 

[RWVBWL]

Wow!

Rudy Guede perhaps bled on Miss Kercher's purse???

In Batch 5 (29 December 2007-early January 2008, not attended by defense observers), the lab isolated two blood-positive samples bearing Guede’s profile. These new samples were from Kercher’s purse and sweatshirt, indicating that Guede had handled, and perhaps bled on these items at the time of the murder.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/guede-dna-investigation/

Wow!

I wonder why I've never heard a Pro-Guilt-oid make mention of this!!!



I wonder if any of that blood from the knife imprint
seen up above next to Miss Kercher's purse is from "poor Rudy"?

 

[RWVBWL]

"Yes, dry leaves, it was getting on to winter then."

Not exactly. The rock would be thrown from the area of the fence, where there is gravel. Grass and mud cover the slope below Filomena's window, it's not everywhere.

A curious detail: muddy shoeprints of Guede were found, but in his apartment. While he was at the cottage, his shoes were clean (except for the half of his right sole that got dirty with blood on his walking out).

Hiya Machiavelli,
So ah, Rudy had mud on his shoe(s) when he got home?
Interesting tidbit of info, thanks.

Makes me wonder how he got mud on his shoe.
Didn't Hekuran Kokomani say that it was raining that night?
Or was that the night before, on Halloween?
It musta sucked if revelers got their costumes wet, right?


Let me ask ya a question, ok?

Ol' Nara says that she heard running amongst the dry leaves
not from down below here apartment,
but from across the highway, down in the driveway of Miss Kercher's cottage, that is.

Still not followin' what I'm talkin' about?

From The Massei Trial:
Mignini:
Did you hear any noises? ?

Nara:
Then while I was going back to go to bed, I still hadn't done that, I heard noises, running on the metal stairway and running on the gravel, among the leaves, because it was in winter still, among the leaves and the gravel path of the apartment, of the cottage that is.

Mignini:
That’s to say the yard??

Nara:
Of the yard which is there beyond the cottage, the driveway of the cottage that is.

Mignini:
Of via della Pergola.

Nara:
I heard running.?

<snip>

Mignini:
Then you heard the scuffling?

Nara:
The same, in the meantime I heard running on the stairs, from the other direction they were running in the driveway.

Mignini:
This the precise question I ask you, because you said it, but I want it to be clear. So the noise of the scuffling in the gravel and in the leaves, you said in the yard ...

Bongiorno:
Well, I did not hear leaves.

Mignini:
Well, I did.

Judge Massei:
Yes, yes, she said leaves and gravel.

Nara:
Yes, dry leaves, it was getting on to winter then.

Link:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...timony_(English)#Nara_Capezzali.27s_Testimony

* * *

How are the leaves dry if it rained that night, per Kokomani?
Did high on heroin Antonio Curatolo read his newspaper in the rain?

How come Rudy would have mud on his Nikes if the leaves were still dry?
"Yes, dry leaves, it was getting on to winter then"...

 

[RWVBWL]

Greetings ya'll!

So ah,
by now some of you folks have figured out what I'm doin',
right?

Take a guess?

Nope,
wrong guess!

I'm not just taking surfpix of near shore waves
as they curl over + tube here at The Beaches of Los Angeles,
like I just did earlier this mornin', a coupla hours ago:

For the last few days I've been doin'
exactly what "Super Witnesses" ol' Nara, "Toto", Marco, and Koko
should have been doing.

I've told the police what I saw and heard,
to help them solve a crime.

And afterwards,
I've been telling all you,
my ISF friends in debate, and alotta my close friends what I saw and heard regarding a crime.

And it wasn't even a rape and murder!

Why the heck did ol' Nara, "Toto", Marco, and Koko
not immediately come forward to help solve the rape and murder
of Miss Meredith Kercher???



By the way,
a Happy B-Day shout out to davefoc!
I've enjoyed reading your posts, keep on keepin' on,
Have a Great B-Day!

RW

 

[acbytesla]

This reminds me of a joke I once heard about a JFK conspiracy theorist. He spent his entire life arguing that JFK was murdered in a conspiracy and that the truth was ruthlessly covered up by elements of the US government. Finally, he died and at the Pearly Gates was greeted by God, who said "Before you enter the Kingdom Of Heaven, you can ask me a question about absolutely anything you like, and I will tell you the truth".

So the conspiracy theorist asks: "Who really murdered JFK?".

God answers: "It was Lee Harvey Oswald and he did it all by himself".

To which the conspiracy theorist responds: "Looks like this thing goes higher than I thought."

Very funny Matthew. I had not heard that one.

 

[Ken Dine]

Greetings ya'll!

So ah,
by now some of you folks have figured out what I'm doin',
right?

Take a guess?

I don't know what you're doing, but I know what you should be doing (exercising and socializing):

http://www.ciclavia.org/ciclavia_culver_venice

I should be there around 1:00 pm - 3:00 pm. Here's my ride, a gold 1971 Steyr (w/ black fenders):

http://1drv.ms/1N1n2Q8

If you should see my bike say 'HI'.

I ride every day, but the occasional CicLaVias are a real hoot.

 

[davefoc]

...

By the way,
a Happy B-Day shout out to davefoc!
I enjoy reading your posts, keep on keepin' on,
and have a great Birthday!

RW

Thank you, I'm 66 today. I thought your picture was great, well done.

My age is a tad relevant to this thread. ACbytesla was making the point that young guys often have athletic skills that older guys don't when he was talking about the ease that Guede could have climbed up and through Filomena's window.

My wife and I were at the Monterey Fisherman's wharf recently and a young boy was crying because he had dropped his shoe over the wall along the harbor. I decided to climb over the wall and retrieve the shoe for him. I had no trouble getting down but all of a sudden when it came time to pull myself up the five foot cement wall and the three foot railing I wondered if I was still strong enough to do something like this. In my youth I could have accomplished it without a second thought. It was about to be quite embarrassing for me to find out that I couldn't do it anymore. Alas I managed it but with only with a considerable effort. Of course, in my youth I wasn't carrying a useless forty pounds of fat around with me every place I went either.

 

[acbytesla]

Nah but I think you can read something into the way Guede left the murder scene. I said in a previous post that if Amanda was guilty the crime scene would look very different (Guede wouldn't be involved at all for starters, but I digress) and one example of that is the blanket over the body.

A thrill killing narcissistic Amanda has no reason to cover her work. Instead she ought to be proud of it. The first thing the shocked police see when they open the door is her perfectly staged sex crime victim spread on the floor in full display. Now that's theatrical. The blanket serves no use to Amanda at all.

But for Guede it makes sense. He's a more simple minded imbecile that's criminal profile is more animal-like, instinctual. After breaking in and being in one of his altered fugue states he's confronted by a defenseless female, possibly in a state of undress. On impulse he decides to quickly take what he wants in the moment, and he uses the weapon we know he likes to arm himself with during his crimes, a knife, to subdue his victim. When he's finished, the true realization of his horrible actions take hold, and in an act of child-like logic he attempts to sweep his mess under the rug, literally, by covering what he did with the blanket. When he leaves, he closes and locks the door, along similar lines as a child that places the lid back on the cookie jar, so nobody sees what happened.

Amanda certainly wouldn't elaborately close all the doors, lock Meredith's door, and then leave the front door wide open, but Guede doesn't know that closing the front door wont prevent it from blowing open, because he doesn't live there or know about the broken latch. The crime is actually very simple and straight forward for anyone clearheaded enough to look at what happened. I'd say a reasonable person can solve it in about 10 minutes skimming over the basic facts.

I'm not sure I believe we can get into the heads of other human beings and disect their actions. There is no proof that Amanda covered Meredith's body.

All I think we do is review the evidence we do have. Rudy was there for certain during the murder. We are 100 percent sure of that by the evidence he left, his statements and his actions. Rudy has a history that points to him participating in at least 2 to 5 burglaries in the preceding 2 months. There is evidence of a burglary. (There is no actual evidence that this burglary was staged only claims that it was staged) There is no connection between Amanda/Raffaele and Rudy. There is no credible evidence tying either Amanda or Raffaele to the murder. There is also no evidence of a motive.

The rest is just speculation.

 

[Antony]

I have a feeling that whomever discovered the body would be the immediate suspect. The Perugia police seem to have a very simple view towards crime.
One thought I have is that it is argued that Amanda was able to get all of teh blood off herself and her clothes. At the same time, there is the argument that she smelled and had not taken a shower. These seem to strongly conflict with each other.

This (highlighted) is a recurring feature of miscarriages of justice. It's one of the things that straight off led me to see this case for what it was. (The other was the "confession/accusation" resulting from an illegal all-night interrogation.)