Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Bill Williams]

"Evidence" of sheer personality kind cannot be presented in court as evidence of guilt.



No Mignini has nothing to do with this.
And nothing of that was ever "rejected" by any court (not even examined actually; courts don't deal with these things).
Those are simply aspects of personalities that are apparent to those who observe.
People look like something, objective details in their actions communicate things to other humans, whether you accept it or not.
It makes little sense for you to try link my opinion stemming from direct observation, with alleged "arguments" and "findings" of judges.

LOL!

I'm getting the notion why this content is never printed in italian on an Italian-language service.

LOl!

 

[Machiavelli]

What an amazing morass of half truths and out and out lies. Yes, Amanda "met" Rudy a few days before she met Raffaele. So technically that is true. But they did not exchange phone numbers and there is no evidence, NONE that other than while he was with the boys downstairs or when he went into Le Chic that the ever corresponded in any way. There is also no evidence, NONE, that Amanda ever purchased drugs anywhere. You see Mach, that is the difference between you and me. I need verifiable and credible evidence not nonsensical lies to convict someone of murder.

This really is sorrowful, sad and disgusting.

I don't need any of those findings to convict someone of murder.
They are all unnecessary.

But they are good enough to dismiss a defensive argument that consists in the assumption that Guede and Knox were foreign to each other didn't attend each other.
It only shows there is no such defensive argument.

 

[Mr Fied]

No. Knox and Guede had been knowing each other for longer than Knox was dating Sollecito.
It is proven that Knox knew both of them.
Witnesses testifies that Guede and Knox were talking "very friendly" at the downstairs apartment.
Guede was also linked to the house, since he was a friend of the guys downstairs and he was a guest at their house.

Amanda Knox also attended drug dealers of Piazza Grimana and used to have sexual encounters with them. She attended closely the very same tiny environment where Guede belonged to.

In addition to that, Knox wrote in her MySpace account that she had met a beautiful black man in the via Garibaldi area, but she omitted to talk about him in her book and never revealed hs name.

The testimonies of Sollecito himself also were that Knox left his apartment that evening, just as they had decided to spend a previous evening on their own (it looks like Sollecito was a little "fed up" with attending Knox over the last days, so in his book).
Also, AK made a curious reference to the "basketball court" where she placed her her "memories" of Lumumba.
She also placed a memory of blood on Sollecito's hands.
Sollecito instead placed a memory of himself holding a knife and pricking Meredith, and a fear that "rags" would retain DNA (in fact the rag was only TMB positive).

The thre are not three sociopaths.
Only Knox is in fact manifestly affected by a narcissistic personality disorder.
Sollecito instead is a weak charachter, a dependent personality of the passive-aggressive type. Both Sollecito and Knox have problems with their sexual identity: Knox has a lesbian orientation and Sollecito has also peculiar kind of attractions.

Guede instead is drug dealed and a person with low self-estem and lack of self control, and a tendency to alcohol excess. But Guede also had a peculiar sexual interest in Amanda Knox, a witness described him as fixated with "American student girls".

In fact, Guede, Knox and Sollecito had the same age, lived almost in the same road, and Knox and Guede in particular attended the same bars, exactly the same students environment, the same bars, Knox lived 60 meters away from the basketball court where Guede used to spend most of his days and she crossed tha court every day to enter her school in front of the court, they attended even very same houses, and the very same people, and they knew each other. One had a crush for her, the other used to have casual sex with drug dealers.

Can someone call the Guiness Book of Records.

What is the record for the most lies published in one forum post?

 

[Planigale]

I missed that item and would appreciate if you can provide another link to it.
Of note, just a couple of months ago I purchased a 500 GB SSD and I was able to transfer my old hard drive to the SSD on my laptop with no issues.

from previous post

'As an aside on this I note a comment on IIP site about another case
http://www.ansa.it/english/news/gene...ae9364893.html

"A similar case is likely to Stasi. He was acquitted in the first degree and sentenced by the court of appeal. The author of the judgment of appeal wrote a judgment in-depth and very good style, but looks more like a novel than a judgment. In fact it is just a house of cards, well built, but still fragile, as every building is not based on accurate data but only on probable according to the conviction of the judges. A fact supports the other, but if one falls, they all fall. If Stasi was never identified a motive; the judges came up with that because the accused occasionally watched porn photos on the Internet (to me last week've had to work to remove a virus from my computer that I opened continuously porn pages!), this obviously meant he demanded from girlfriend porn performance and that since it refused killed her. Good thinking that only proves that the judges believe that you can kill every friend who refuses oral sex! It is no longer normal to think that if that were the case, the accused would have sought a girlfriend longer available?
The process then is vitiated by an irremediable fundamental error. The accused has been declared to have a solid alibi for the time of the murder had been working at the computer. Investigators took the computer and have destroyed the contents and so the alibi of the accused is blown! Now all those who are not suffering from orchitis brain, understand that the court can not shrug and say "patience, we do it!". In any judicial system seriously evidence deduced a suspect and destroyed by the prosecution to be considered as existing."

Sady it seems frying hard drives does not appear to be limited to Perugia. My guess is that there was an error in the way that Italian police were trained to clone hard drives. '

 

[Mr Fied]

I don't need any of those findings to convict someone of murder. They are all unnecessary. But they are good enough to dismiss a defensive argument that consists in the assumption that Guede and Knox were foreign to each other didn't attend each other.
It only shows there is no such defensive argument.

But in a court of law you do need corroborated evidence to convict of murder.

Not unverified DNA tests, drug addled witnesses, lying forensic officers, forever changing motives, name calling and hearsay.

 

[Machiavelli]

Can someone call the Guiness Book of Records.

What is the record for the most lies published in one forum post?

To be fair, there is no evidence Guede was a drug dealer.

 

[Machiavelli]

But in a court of law you do need corroborated evidence to convict of murder.

I was talking about something else.
I was only showing that a defensive argument was unfounded.

Not unverified DNA tests, drug addled witnesses, lying forensic officers, forever changing motives, name calling and hearsay.

Motive is no evidence.
Autopsy report, a set of luminol prints and stains, bathmat prints, physical evidence of staging a burglary, physical evidence of multiple perpetrators, multiple instances of DNA evidence, multiple witnesses, a never ending series of countess lies on the part of the suspects, obstruction of justice by placing evidence against an innocent man (for which all courts convicted her), physical evidence of more than one modus operandi on the scene, double DNA traces in bathroom, double DNA traces in Filomena's room, and so on.... all this is called evidence. And I like Massei and Nencini (and Hellmann for calunnia) say there was evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Planigale]

from previous post

'As an aside on this I note a comment on IIP site about another case
http://www.ansa.it/english/news/gene...ae9364893.html

"A similar case is likely to Stasi. He was acquitted in the first degree and sentenced by the court of appeal. The author of the judgment of appeal wrote a judgment in-depth and very good style, but looks more like a novel than a judgment. In fact it is just a house of cards, well built, but still fragile, as every building is not based on accurate data but only on probable according to the conviction of the judges. A fact supports the other, but if one falls, they all fall. If Stasi was never identified a motive; the judges came up with that because the accused occasionally watched porn photos on the Internet (to me last week've had to work to remove a virus from my computer that I opened continuously porn pages!), this obviously meant he demanded from girlfriend porn performance and that since it refused killed her. Good thinking that only proves that the judges believe that you can kill every friend who refuses oral sex! It is no longer normal to think that if that were the case, the accused would have sought a girlfriend longer available?
The process then is vitiated by an irremediable fundamental error. The accused has been declared to have a solid alibi for the time of the murder had been working at the computer. Investigators took the computer and have destroyed the contents and so the alibi of the accused is blown! Now all those who are not suffering from orchitis brain, understand that the court can not shrug and say "patience, we do it!". In any judicial system seriously evidence deduced a suspect and destroyed by the prosecution to be considered as existing."

Sady it seems frying hard drives does not appear to be limited to Perugia. My guess is that there was an error in the way that Italian police were trained to clone hard drives. '

Having looked up the case not exactly the same the best explanation I can find is here.
http://www.corriere.it/International/english/articoli/2009/08/31/stasi.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

 

[Mr Fied]

I was talking about something else.
I was only showing that a defensive argument was unfounded.



Motive is no evidence.
Autopsy report, a set of luminol prints and stains, bathmat prints, physical evidence of staging a burglary, physical evidence of multiple perpetrators, multiple instances of DNA evidence, multiple witnesses, a never ending series of countess lies on the part of the suspects, obstruction of justice by placing evidence against an innocent man (for which all courts convicted her), physical evidence of more than one modus operandi on the scene, double DNA traces in bathroom, double DNA traces in Filomena's room, and so on.... all this is called evidence. And I like Massei and Nencini (and Hellmann for calunnia) say there was evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

Was there any physical evidence to place Amanda or Raff at the crime scene at the time of the murder?

 

[analemma]

The pro-Knoxes ara a mass of deluded and liars, prejudicial and ignorant xenophobes who protect murderers and push vicious campaigns against innocents.
The English speaking media that were charlatans on the Kercher case are in no position to lecture sovereign systems.

Hey Mach, let us refrain from racist remarks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your xenophobia is showing, right thru your Italian swagger

 

[RWVBWL]

What an amazing morass of half truths and out and out lies. Yes, Amanda "met" Rudy a few days before she met Raffaele. So technically that is true. But they did not exchange phone numbers and there is no evidence, NONE that other than while he was with the boys downstairs or when he went into Le Chic that the ever corresponded in any way. There is also no evidence, NONE, that Amanda ever purchased drugs anywhere. You see Mach, that is the difference between you and me. I need verifiable and credible evidence not nonsensical lies to convict someone of murder.

<snip>

Gosh AC,
I seem to recall that Miss Knox went out alllll alone on Halloween night.
Her new boyfriend of a week wanted to work on his thesis,
for as I seem to recall, as he was due to graduate from College in a coupla weeks.

Odd how Rudy Guede did not try and hook up immediately with Foxy Knoxy,
who was flying solo that night, or make an appointment later that same night as Harry Potter studied. Nor did Rudy try and make an appointment with Amanda for the next night.
At least Amanda would have been ready for she, not Rudy, had condoms.

Rudy was interested in Meredith though.
Heck I've posted the passages here before, read all of the sweet gushings of Meredith's beauty that Rudy Guede uses as he describes Mez in his German Prison Diary, written before PM Mignini got his hands on The Guede.


Odd how Rudy called Carlos to go and hang out with ALL the Spanish kids on Halloween.

But not a text or a phone call to Foxy Knoxy,
which Rudy,
(what with Machiavelli claiming them to be soooo tight after smoking 1 spinello),
must have knew was her nickname, + had her phone # too.
Pffft.

 

[bagels]

I was talking about something else.
I was only showing that a defensive argument was unfounded.

Timeline of Knox's life:

|------------typical american girl suburbanite----|wild out of control drug crazed psycho extrapolated from a myspace post and being within proximity of a drug dealer in a town full of drug dealers|-----typical american girl suburbanite---

 

[Bill Williams]

To be fair, there is no evidence Guede was a drug dealer.

Why do you defend Rudy Guede but utter all manner of lunacy about Knox?

Oh right.... you are the only two who now claim she was involved, except he says it in Italy in italian.

 

[Planigale]

I was talking about something else.
I was only showing that a defensive argument was unfounded.



Motive is no evidence.
Autopsy report, a set of luminol prints and stains, bathmat prints, physical evidence of staging a burglary, physical evidence of multiple perpetrators, multiple instances of DNA evidence, multiple witnesses, a never ending series of countess lies on the part of the suspects, obstruction of justice by placing evidence against an innocent man (for which all courts convicted her), physical evidence of more than one modus operandi on the scene, double DNA traces in bathroom, double DNA traces in Filomena's room, and so on.... all this is called evidence. And I like Massei and Nencini (and Hellmann for calunnia) say there was evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

For most of what you say I can understand where you come from, if you choose the opinion you like and ignore others on the basis that 'defence experts always lie'.

But exactly what is the physical evidence of staging a burglary? Physical evidence does not mean 'it is illogical to break in window X', or nothing was stolen (since this assumes 1) the burglary was not interrupted and 2) that if staging a burglary the stagers would not bother to steal anything - which happens in most staged burglaries).

 

[analemma]

Well, just to start, basically in both the Narducci investigations lead by Mignini.
Because you know there were two Narducci investigation files: the first was for the murder of Narducci, it was started after the unburial of Narducci's body. The second was on the side trackings, the corpses exchange.

The first investigation was the most complex one, ended as Mignini asked for the archiviation without indicting anyone. He slated some formal suspects (Calamandrei, Spezi, others) and asked the preliminary judge to not indict anyone because elements were not sufficient to indict specific people. However, that research made great findings about the truth, there were sufficient elements to conclude that the body picked at the lake was not Narducci's, that F.Narducci was killed, and also that Narducci was involved with the MoF murders.
Mignini submitted a 64-page document with the summary of such investigation.
The preliminary judge De Roberti accepted wholly Mignini's conclusions, and she issued a 12-page motivations order of archiviation which is now judicial truth. Calamandrei and Spezi appealed at the Supreme Court to have this document annulled, but the SC rejected their appeal.

Subsequently, in the second investigation Mignini asked to indict 20 people. Micheli rejected the requests and dropped all charges. Mignini appealed at the Supreme Court. This time the SC accepted Mignini's appeal, and annulled almost all of Micheli's dropping of charges; it only accepted the dropping of "criminal association" (mafia) charge, but re-instated all the other 21 charges. The "criminal association" charge was dismissed in point of law, because it's a charge with very peculiar legal elements, while the charges about the single crimes committed by the conspirators were all re-instated. Several of those charges however meanwhile had expired, the Cassazione noted recent expiration for some of them (thanks to Micheli's 1-year delay before depositing the motivations), other expired shortly afterwards.
The last of Spezi's charge was dropped on request of prosecutor Duchini as it expired as well. Brizioli's charge instead still stands, and now he is under trial.
The poin it SC anyway accepted Mignini's investigation was valuable and correct, although, being a Cassazione rulling, it did not get so much into the merits of body swaps and evidence assessment as the De Roberti ruling did.

Another trial which confirmed Mignini's theory was the Ticchioni case, which was a defamation case where the judge found out that a testimony by a fisherman who witnessed the body "placing" was authentic.

There was another case in Milan, this one a calunnia case against Spezi, that ended with the court of Milan acknowledging that Mignini's investigation was correct and the body swap actually occurred and called that a "fact".



See above.



The investigation on the "masterminds" is now opened and focused on deceased Reinecke, a resident of Villa La Sfacciata, he is the man who found the two young men in the van. Mario Vanni before dying also accused a black man, an American citizen and a homosexual, who used to live together with Reinecke, naming him as the man who physically shot some victims. The man has also died of AIDS meanwhile.
Reinecke owned a motor boat at the Trasimeno lake and he was caught with a series of illegally detained firearms. He used to be a fanatic of exhoterism, used to dress in black and wear gold medallions portraying the devile, his second wife claimed she detected the minivan murders thanks to her paranormal powers.



Indeed everything talked about a "political" verdict, but the Porta a Porta show included Roberta Bruzzone who pointed out that Knox was certainly guilty. And was not about "sympathy" for Amanda, it was instead about the "separation of evidence" between Sollecito and Knox.



Roberta Bruzzone is a criminologist and a criminal profiler, not a forensic expert. I have no clue whether she is a fraud. Anyway defence experts are all liars, they get paid for that.

Mach
Whew,
This is some really significant Mignini butt kissing
There is, of course, no way to authenticate any of this sycophantic BS
Are you the brother or sister of this psycho?

 

[Kauffer]

To be fair, there is no evidence Guede was a drug dealer.

There is no evidence of Amanda or Raffaele having any contact with him apart from Amanda's couple of random brief encounters.

Nor is there any evidence of her ever buying any drugs from anybody.

It's nice, in a way, you are still around. You're utterly defeated by the verdict, totally confused and bewildered by developments, but you're still game. Fab!

Do stick around for the motivazione and the ECHR ruling. I'm going to love it.

 

[acbytesla]

I was talking about something else.
I was only showing that a defensive argument was unfounded.



Motive is no evidence.
Autopsy report, a set of luminol prints and stains, bathmat prints, physical evidence of staging a burglary, physical evidence of multiple perpetrators, multiple instances of DNA evidence, multiple witnesses, a never ending series of countess lies on the part of the suspects, obstruction of justice by placing evidence against an innocent man (for which all courts convicted her), physical evidence of more than one modus operandi on the scene, double DNA traces in bathroom, double DNA traces in Filomena's room, and so on.... all this is called evidence. And I like Massei and Nencini (and Hellmann for calunnia) say there was evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

LMAO.

Luminol that tested negative for blood that can not be attributed to anyone.
Bath mat print that can't be attributed to anyone.
Absolutely no evidence of multiple perpetrators. In fact almost all of the experts said they could not rule out a single perpetrator.
DNA of Amanda in her own home. LMAO.

Beyond a reasonable doubt? Easily.

 

[analemma]

For most of what you say I can understand where you come from, if you choose the opinion you like and ignore others on the basis that 'defence experts always lie'.

But exactly what is the physical evidence of staging a burglary? Physical evidence does not mean 'it is illogical to break in window X', or nothing was stolen (since this assumes 1) the burglary was not interrupted and 2) that if staging a burglary the stagers would not bother to steal anything - which happens in most staged burglaries).

You will wait until hell freezes over for an answer to that question.
This whole "staged burglery" thing is a "judicial truth" made up from nothing in a trial that AK and RS did not even participate and had no chance to refute.
The "staged burglery" and "other participants" "judicial truth" were the most scandalous fabrications of this whole travesty of justice.
Everyone is concentrating upon the fact that stef lied and hid data and fabricated results and the serial drug addicted witnesses were couched endlessly and the prosecutors lied for a year about Amanda before they brought her to court, but the real Galileo touch was the fabrication of these "judicial truths" out of nothing, not even an argument to support them: It was just stated by the ISC that these imaginings were the infallible truth and no proof was necessary.
Saving face is really important today in Italy, just as it was in the days of Galelio, and proclaiming "judicial truths" to save face is a centuries old tradition.
This is what really convinced me that the whole system was corrupt and that the show trials were really no more than witch hunts started by bumbling idiots.

 

[carbonjam72]

from previous post

'As an aside on this I note a comment on IIP site about another case
http://www.ansa.it/english/news/gene...ae9364893.html

"A similar case is likely to Stasi. He was acquitted in the first degree and sentenced by the court of appeal. The author of the judgment of appeal wrote a judgment in-depth and very good style, but looks more like a novel than a judgment. In fact it is just a house of cards, well built, but still fragile, as every building is not based on accurate data but only on probable according to the conviction of the judges. A fact supports the other, but if one falls, they all fall. If Stasi was never identified a motive; the judges came up with that because the accused occasionally watched porn photos on the Internet (to me last week've had to work to remove a virus from my computer that I opened continuously porn pages!), this obviously meant he demanded from girlfriend porn performance and that since it refused killed her. Good thinking that only proves that the judges believe that you can kill every friend who refuses oral sex! It is no longer normal to think that if that were the case, the accused would have sought a girlfriend longer available?
The process then is vitiated by an irremediable fundamental error. The accused has been declared to have a solid alibi for the time of the murder had been working at the computer. Investigators took the computer and have destroyed the contents and so the alibi of the accused is blown! Now all those who are not suffering from orchitis brain, understand that the court can not shrug and say "patience, we do it!". In any judicial system seriously evidence deduced a suspect and destroyed by the prosecution to be considered as existing."

Sady it seems frying hard drives does not appear to be limited to Perugia. My guess is that there was an error in the way that Italian police were trained to clone hard drives. '

Or there was no error in the way they were trained to destroy them.

 

[Machiavelli]

"Possible" in your dreams; and in the minds of Italian prosecutors.
Nutcase prosecutors did not test it because they knew it was from Rudy and would make it clear to everyone that Rudy was the only rapist-murderer.
Only fanatical witch hunters would refuse to test a semen stain in a rape murder case, and only because they wanted to avoid the truth that they were prosecuting innocents.
This failure by ITALIAN prosecutors/witch hunters to test the semen stain shows that they were not interested in the Truth: Ever.

Let's recall once again that the defence remained silent about the semen stain through almost the whole Massei trial.
We may question why the defence knew about it but didn't want to mention such evidence and didn't request to test it, over a long early stage, while the evidence was about to be discussed.
But I do not really "question" the defence: instead, I recognize an authority of the defence. They are the ones who can say whether a piece of evidence can be of defensive value or not, they have a responsability about this, and the long silence of Vinci tells us they assessed it was not exculpatory evidence, they had their reasons for not requesting to test it.

Not the prosecutors, but the judges refused to test the semen stain. And not only the judges who ruled for guilt, but also those who ruled favourably to the defendants made the choice of not testing the semen stain (a choice inconsstent with their conclusion in favour of defendants).