Canadian Federal Elections

[rustypouch]

Harper officially announced the date for the next election over the weekend. This will be the most expensive, and nearly the longest, campaign in Canadian history.

I'm thinking it will be between the Conservatives and NDP.

 

[Segnosaur]

Harper officially announced the date for the next election over the weekend. This will be the most expensive, and nearly the longest, campaign in Canadian history.

Well, technically the date was already set, since the government had passed a fixed election date law.

It did seem rather early for him to start the campaign. However, I think it may be a byproduct of having the fixed election date. Some 3rd party groups (such as 'Engage Canada', which is run by former NDP and Liberal members and is largely funded by unions) had started ad campaigns targeting the conservatives. By starting the election, Harper limits the ability of that group to advertise.

He may also be hoping that by having a long election campaign, supporters of the Liberals/NDP might burn themselves out. (How long can you keep a rage-a-thon going?)

I'm thinking it will be between the Conservatives and NDP.

I agree. Polls have the NDP leading (some by a little, some by a lot.)

Have to admit, I'm really surprised at what happened to the Liberals. I guess Justin Trudeau was not quite the wonderboy they thought he'd be. I'm also surprised that the conservatives remain contenders... after a couple of terms, parties in charge often see various problems catch up to them.

 

[Corsair 115]

Harper officially announced the date for the next election over the weekend. This will be the most expensive, and nearly the longest, campaign in Canadian history.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why it was thought 11 weeks was a good length for the campaign. The last election campaign was only 7 weeks long, wasn't it?

 

[Corsair 115]

Some 3rd party groups (such as 'Engage Canada', which is run by former NDP and Liberal members and is largely funded by unions) had started ad campaigns targeting the conservatives.

I was seeing some weeks ago ads on YouTube that were attacking the Liberals, and Trudeau specifically, on behalf of the Conservatives. (All those did is remind me how much I hate ALL election ads, regardless of the side they're shilling for.)

 

[Wirelight]

What a waste of money running such an extended election campaign. The Conservatives have more money to play with than all the other party's combined so we're going to get carpet bombed by Con propaganda. Meanwhile, the other guys will just be lucky to make it to the end.

Just yet another Harper ploy.

 

[Segnosaur]

Some 3rd party groups (such as 'Engage Canada', which is run by former NDP and Liberal members and is largely funded by unions) had started ad campaigns targeting the conservatives.

I was seeing some weeks ago ads on YouTube that were attacking the Liberals, and Trudeau specifically, on behalf of the Conservatives. (All those did is remind me how much I hate ALL election ads, regardless of the side they're shilling for.)

Just on Youtube? I don't think I ever stopped seeing conservative ads on TV, and they've been running anti-Trudeau ads on television for weeks/months.

The problem with the Engage Canada ads is that they bypass the spirit of campaign finance laws. Unions and corporations are forbidden from donating large amounts directly to a political party. By creating a 3rd party organization (but ones that are run by political hacks) they can spend money in ways the conservatives can't.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why it was thought 11 weeks was a good length for the campaign.

Well, I've already given a couple of reasons... for example, due to the conservative promise of a fixed election date, starting the election early was about the only way to avoid excessive spending by Liberal/NDP hacks through 3rd party organizations.

The conservatives also have an advantage in fundraising. (Possibly because all the liberal/NDP supporters are dirty smelly hippies who spend all their money on pot rather than donating it to political parties.) A longer campaign might give them an edge because they can outspend the other parties.

The last election campaign was only 7 weeks long, wasn't it?

The last election was called March 26th, and the election held May 2, 2011. So closer to 5-6 weeks.

I think legally a party has to allow 36 days.

 

[Segnosaur]

What a waste of money running such an extended election campaign.

Is it a waste?

It does mean that parties can spend more during the campaign. But, it does limit 3rd party spending (which was being kicked into high gear). Plus, it ends the distribution of all the pre-election goodies that the conservatives were dishing out.

 

[Corsair 115]

Just on Youtube? I don't think I ever stopped seeing conservative ads on TV, and they've been running anti-Trudeau ads on television for weeks/months.

Don't have regular television anymore, so I am mercifully free of election and election-style ads for the most part. But for a couple of days the anti-Trudeau ones were playing frequently before YouTube videos.

Well, I've already given a couple of reasons... for example, due to the conservative promise of a fixed election date, starting the election early was about the only way to avoid excessive spending by Liberal/NDP hacks through 3rd party organizations.

Yes, you've stated reasons. But there is nothing in them that mandates those reasons being accepted as complete justification. The fixed election law has been around for awhile in one form or another, has it not?

The last election was called March 26th, and the election held May 2, 2011. So closer to 5-6 weeks.

Even shorter. Yay!


More generally, for this election I am faced with few palatable choices. Harper has been PM now for almost as long as Chretien was, and that's long enough. It's time for him to go... But I can't stand Justin Trudeau, he's a pretty boy empty suit, and the only reason he is where he is is because of his daddy's name. And Mulcair, not sure I really trust him, plus my politics have moved back towards the centre.

So, basically, my vote would be "none of the above".

 

[rustypouch]

I'm not a fan of the fixed election dates. The ads come earlier and earlier, like in the US where they're around years ahead of time. Plus, I feel that variable election dates keep the parties on their toes, that they always have to behave.

In regards to the Conservative ads, they are ridiculous. I enjoy that they slam Trudeau for not having enough experience, and in the anti-Mulcair ad, they slam him for having too much experience.

I'm probably going to vote NDP, as they're the major party I find least offensive.

 

[Segnosaur]

Yes, you've stated reasons. But there is nothing in them that mandates those reasons being accepted as complete justification.

Well, there's no guarantee those are the exact (or only) reasons. But, even a partial explanation is better than nothing.

And why wouldn't they be valid reasons?

The fixed election law has been around for awhile in one form or another, has it not?

Nope, its a new thing (at least federally), brought in by the conservatives in the past few years. And I think its the only time its been effective. Prior to that, the government had a maximum of 5 years, and could call an election at any time prior to that.

Fixed election dates doesn't really work perfectly in our system of government, where a surprise non-confidence vote can trigger an election at any time.

 

[Segnosaur]

I'm not a fan of the fixed election dates. The ads come earlier and earlier, like in the US where they're around years ahead of time.

There are good points and bad points to fixed elections.

On the negative side, you are right... it does mean parties can campaign for years before the actual election. And, it doesn't mesh perfectly with our parliamentary system and non-confidence votes.

On the other hand, it does help level the playing field. The party in power can't call snap elections to make use of some favorable circumstances (e.g. Chretien calling early elections when the opposition was divided.) Parties can better plan things like expenses, fundraising, and nominations.

In regards to the Conservative ads, they are ridiculous.

Yes they are.

As are the Liberal's anti-conservative ads.

 

[Corsair 115]

Well, there's no guarantee those are the exact (or only) reasons. But, even a partial explanation is better than nothing.

And why wouldn't they be valid reasons?

Didn't say they weren't valid, just that as justifications go it seems slim to me.

Nope, its a new thing (at least federally), brought in by the conservatives in the past few years. And I think its the only time its been effective. Prior to that, the government had a maximum of 5 years, and could call an election at any time prior to that.

Formally? Perhaps. Informally, I thought the fixed date thing was true for the last election call.

 

[Molinaro]

As long as the GOP don't win I don't care who gets in.

 

[deadrose]

As those of us to the south look longingly at your 11-week campaign, contemplating the next 15 months of misery....

 

[Segnosaur]

Didn't say they weren't valid, just that as justifications go it seems slim to me.

Yeah but the question isn't whether there are good reasons for the early election call... the question is whether the reasons (as slim as they are) make more sense than the alternative of waiting.

Informally, I thought the fixed date thing was true for the last election call.

Nope. There has never been any formal or informal attempt to schedule elections on fixed dates. Last election was triggered by a non-confidence motion (i.e. not planned). And remember, before that Chretien called 2 elections early (after roughly 3.5 years, rather than the traditional 4 years). Up until recently, it was a common tactic to call elections to give an advantage to whatever party was in charge.

 

[Corsair 115]

Nope. There has never been any formal or informal attempt to schedule elections on fixed dates. Last election was triggered by a non-confidence motion (i.e. not planned).

Yeah, but had it not been for that, the four-year length would have been observed. Such as I recall was the plan from the Conservatives, at any rate.

 

[Wayward son]

Nope. There has never been any formal or informal attempt to schedule elections on fixed dates. Last election was triggered by a non-confidence motion (i.e. not planned). And remember, before that Chretien called 2 elections early (after roughly 3.5 years, rather than the traditional 4 years). Up until recently, it was a common tactic to call elections to give an advantage to whatever party was in charge.

It is still a common tactic to call elections early to give an advantage to whatever party was in charge. You seem to be forgetting 2 elections ago. The 2008 election was a year early, and was not due to a non-confidence motion. The year before his own government had passed the legislation fixing the date for October 2009. As it suited Harper's agenda and his electoral success chances to call the election early, he did so. The fixed-election date legislation simply changed the maximum length of time between elections from 5 years to 4, but does not affect or restrict early election calls in any way shape or form.

 

[Border Reiver]

I've voted in every election since I could vote (federally since 1988) and this is the year that I feel "meh" about the whole deal.

I dislike many of the Conservative inroads into civil rights (Bill C-51, some of the victims of crime legislation, etc.) and the hypocrisy of the Harper position on the military (which is not so ironically "Nothing is too good for the troops, so that is what they shall get.") and I absolutely hate and despise attack ads focused on people.

that being said, the Liberals do not inspire me with any confidence - I don't see a financial manager like Paul Martin, and while I like Leslie as a soldier and ex-gunner I'm not sure he's the right guy to put in either foreign affairs or defence. That and the basic Liberal policy seems to be "we're not the Conservatives." does not fill me with confidence.

The NDP lack experience as a governing party (which is not surprising since the governance of Canada has flipped between the Liberals and a variation of the Conservatives since Confederation) and have a young MP base. Not sure if they have the experience to balance party lines with the needs of the country, and I'm getting older and less inclined to take risks with my government.

 

[Segnosaur]

It is still a common tactic to call elections early to give an advantage to whatever party was in charge.

Wouldn't say its a "common" tactic, since the fixed election law is less than a decade old, and there have only been a handful of elections called since then.

You seem to be forgetting 2 elections ago. The 2008 election was a year early, and was not due to a non-confidence motion. The year before his own government had passed the legislation fixing the date for October 2009. As it suited Harper's agenda and his electoral success chances to call the election early, he did so.

Nope, didn't forget...

Yes, Harper did call that election early. But keep in mind that at that time it was a minority government, and the opposition parties were repeatedly bringing up non-confidence motions (although one of the parties would abstain from the vote.) Harper's argument (whether you accept it or not) is that Parliament was gridlocked.

The fixed-election date legislation simply changed the maximum length of time between elections from 5 years to 4, but does not affect or restrict early election calls in any way shape or form.

You are right in that it doesn't prevent early elections.

I think the argument is that when there are stable majority governments then a fixed election date can be used (especially after a few election cycles, and the voting public begins to expect it.). It is possible for a government to call an early election, but doing so without a compelling reason (e.g. a minority government, national emergency, etc.) might result in additional scorn from the voters. At least that's my theory.

Like I said, fixed election dates don't really mesh well with our system of government.

 

[Segnosaur]

I dislike many of the Conservative inroads into civil rights (Bill C-51

I'm not happy about bill C51 either. Keep in mind though that the Liberals also supported the bill.

...I absolutely hate and despise attack ads focused on people.

Understandable. I'm not a big fan of them either. If it means anything, it looks like they might actually be backfiring on the tories.

Of course, negative ads are a staple of any election campaign. (Remember: "Zap, you're frozen?") Conservative ads are perhaps the most muck-raking, but they aren't the only ones that are dirty.

The NDP lack experience as a governing party...

Technically that shouldn't be that much of an issue. After all, if "experience" were a deciding factor, we would have had continuous conservative governments since the days of John A. since no other party had experience "first".