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My Ghost Story

PartSkeptic said:
I have heard one person say that the cupboard door in the bathroom banged open and closed in the haunted house they lived in.

The reason I say that a ghost might be capable of interacting slightly with physical matter is that for 6 weeks on an organic farm I had problem after problem, Every day something went wrong. The electronics on the solar system and the watering system failed, one piece each time on different days.

Birds, bees, hornets, bats, scorpions, spiders, ants and so on hassled me. It was when the Cape cobra slid past me towards the bedroom that I felt I had to take action.

Turned out a guy had committed suicide outside the house recently. A jilted lover. Once I went to his friend who found him dead, and the ex-girl-friend (she was being haunted) to sort things out most of this stopped.

A strange run of bad luck. It is what I thought it was at first. And that may indeed be the explanation. And just coincidence that it stopped when it did.

But given my other experiences, I am not so sure it was not a ghost.
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There's no justification nor actual rationale for thinking that ghosts can interact (slightly) with physical matter in your post, at all.
Only apparent irrational belief.

Can you do better?
 
I must admit to a certain curiosity as to how PartSkeptic "sorted things out" to the ghost's apparent satisfaction.
 
PartSkeptic said:
...
The sounds stopped when a siren sounded. A man had been killed at the intersection....
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Hilite by Daylightstar
A man killed in the intersection is something you did not know at the time, that has been added to the 'experience' by you at a later time to construct the anecdote.

You do understand that, don't you?
 
It's interesting to note in passing that coincidences never happening, which would be far harder to explain in terms of the laws of nature and probability than the sort of coincidences PartSkeptic describes, would be the one piece of genuine evidence for the supernatural we would be unlikely to notice, because our pattern seeking brains consider it the norm.
 
Pixel42 said:
I must admit to a certain curiosity as to how PartSkeptic "sorted things out" to the ghost's apparent satisfaction.
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It is the usual non-specificity with respect to certain details of an anecdote which causes such curiosity.
Perfectly normal :thumbsup: :cool:

In this case may, might, possibly be intended as such by the story teller.


Perhaps.
 
Pixel42 said:
It's interesting to note in passing that coincidences never happening, which would be far harder to explain in terms of the laws of nature and probability than the sort of coincidences PartSkeptic describes, would be the one piece of genuine evidence for the supernatural we would be unlikely to notice, because our pattern seeking brains consider it the norm.
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Very non-specific things usually are 'less easily' noticed, and less susceptible to investigation.

Very convenient :D
 
Pixel42 said:
It's interesting to note in passing that coincidences never happening, which would be far harder to explain in terms of the laws of nature and probability than the sort of coincidences PartSkeptic describes, would be the one piece of genuine evidence for the supernatural we would be unlikely to notice, because our pattern seeking brains consider it the norm.
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When the footsteps stopped, a leaf was blown across the pavement revealing a cricket which went silent under the moonlight loosed by parting clouds. Where these too actors in the night's play? Who could engineer that leaf moving on the very fell quiet of ghostly feet?

Oh, too, the world turned a fraction; millions died and were born. Millions more clutched their breaths as ghosts Interspooked. A clockwork play that is right twice a day.
 
PartSkeptic said:
I have heard one person say that the cupboard door in the bathroom banged open and closed in the haunted house they lived in.

The reason I say that a ghost might be capable of interacting slightly with physical matter is that for 6 weeks on an organic farm I had problem after problem, Every day something went wrong. The electronics on the solar system and the watering system failed, one piece each time on different days.

Birds, bees, hornets, bats, scorpions, spiders, ants and so on hassled me. It was when the Cape cobra slid past me towards the bedroom that I felt I had to take action.

Turned out a guy had committed suicide outside the house recently. A jilted lover. Once I went to his friend who found him dead, and the ex-girl-friend (she was being haunted) to sort things out most of this stopped.

A strange run of bad luck. It is what I thought it was at first. And that may indeed be the explanation. And just coincidence that it stopped when it did.

But given my other experiences, I am not so sure it was not a ghost.
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Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
 
PartSkeptic said:
But I never saw or heard something that was not there.
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How do you know?
Maybe, but one does not easily forget the basic facts.
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Actually, yes you do. There's all kinds of studies which show this.

Given the fact that video and sound recorders do not pick up sounds or visuals it seems such perceptions are generated inside the brain.
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Is that a fact? There are plenty of believers in the paranormal who would say that opposite.
 
PartSkeptic said:
I don't disagree. Perfectly reasonable. When I was a child with an over-active imagination, I also had a fear of the dark and what might be lurking there. But I never saw or heard something that was not there.
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Oh, I'll bet you did.
When I was a teenager reading in bed after everyone else had gone to bed, I heard footsteps from the front door walking down the passage on the wooden floors. No creaking, and positively the footsteps of a man. Can only be a ghost I thought. Then I got scared and hoped it would walk past my bedroom.

When it got to the cement and carpeted dining room floor I could not hear the footsteps. When the footsteps came into my room with its bare wooden floor, there was no mistake.

The sounds stopped when a siren sounded. A man had been killed at the intersection.

Not so easy to explain, except to say it was long ago and my memory is faulty. Maybe, but one does not easily forget the basic facts.
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But I bet you have. I don't know how old you are, but as you get older, you'll find out exactly how much you forget, as you're S/Os will gladly point out. You'll also find you invent details, and even entire memories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases
 
Pixel42 said:
Still determined to keep looking for that volcano god then PartSkeptic?
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Just because our ancestors looked for explanations for the universe in which we live, and got it wrong sometimes, it does not mean that one can throw out all supernatural explanations. Not too long ago, the Creation of the Universe at a finite time from nothing was thought to be preposterous.

The Hindus had cyclical universes on an immense time scale, and guess what. They may be close to the truth if the current cyclic theories are correct.

Now here is another scientific theory which is taken seriously.

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

A technologically mature “posthuman” civilization would have enormous computing power. Based on this empirical fact, the simulation argument shows that at least one of the following propositions is true:

(1) The fraction of human-level civilizations that reach a posthuman stage is very close to zero;
(2) The fraction of posthuman civilizations that are interested in running ancestor-simulations is very close to zero;
(3) The fraction of all people with our kind of experiences that are living in a simulation is very close to one.

If (1) is true, then we will almost certainly go extinct before reaching posthumanity.
If (2) is true, then there must be a strong convergence among the courses of advanced civilizations so that virtually none contains any relatively wealthy individuals who desire to run ancestor-simulations and are free to do so.
If (3) is true, then we almost certainly live in a simulation. In the dark forest of our current ignorance, it seems sensible to apportion one’s credence roughly evenly between (1), (2), and (3).

Unless we are now living in a simulation, our descendants will almost certainly never run an ancestor-simulation.
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2015/07/are-we-living-in...

Can physics offer any insight here? English cosmologist John D. Barrow addressed this question in a 2007 essay published in the book “Universe or Multiverse?,” in which he argued that the simulations might have limits. Even if posthuman simulators “have a very advanced knowledge of the laws of Nature, it’s likely they would still have an incomplete knowledge of them,” wrote Barrow. Any flaws or gaps in this knowledge “would of course be subtle and far from obvious, otherwise our ‘advanced’ civilization wouldn’t be too advanced.”

If these gaps exist, as Barrow reasons, the result would be either glitches in the working of reality, or update “patches” to fix a glitch before it causes a problem. (Recall that in “The Matrix,” local changes to the Matrix caused déjà vu.) These patches could result in changes, over time, to the laws of nature. Barrow concludes:

…if we live in a simulated reality we should expect occasional sudden glitches, small drifts in the supposed constants and laws of Nature over time, and a dawning realization that the flaws of Nature are as important as the laws of Nature for our understanding of true reality.
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If we live in a simulation then there are indeed "outside" or "supernatural" intelligences that exist, and can affect what we think of as "reality".

In the past ten years there have been three distinct occasions that I have experienced a glitch in reality. Not supernatural - just seemed physically impossible to me. When added to my other experiences, I conclude that there is indeed the possibility that we live in a simulation, or in the mind of a super-intelligence.

If so, then ghosts and spirits are also possible, and humankind can figure out if there is indeed some sort of logic behind what can and cannot happen.

You guys just need to keep up with the latest scientific theories. How many theories were at first scoffed out and then proven true! Einsteins cosmological constant is one even he did not want to believe in?
 
PartSkeptic said:
Just because our ancestors looked for explanations for the universe in which we live, and got it wrong sometimes, it does not mean that one can throw out all supernatural explanations. Not too long ago, the Creation of the Universe at a finite time from nothing was thought to be preposterous.
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Supernatural is a word without employment. Preposterous is blue collar — at least it holds the dirty universe by the scruff. After some time and a step-wise algorithm we call science, the preposterous gives way to cohesive explanation.

If your ghosts and glitches can be shown, above the level of noise, they will be taken-up into the process of science.

Until then you are flying the flag for a flat line.
 
Resume said:
Oh, I'll bet you did.

But I bet you have. I don't know how old you are, but as you get older, you'll find out exactly how much you forget, as you're S/Os will gladly point out. You'll also find you invent details, and even entire memories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases
Click to expand...


I am talking about everyday things. Like a car in the street that others say is not there. When a shadow or sudden movement occurs, there is an immediate thought that it might be a person. This is over in an instant. I am talking about things that are not fleeting.

I am 66 years old. I forget little things related to short term memory. Until I was 45 years old it bothered me that I remembered all sorts of minutia, and found myself happy to finally begin forgetting trivia.

I find my long term memory, and my memory on key events, to be quite accurate. I recently looked up old letters and diaries about some things and am happy to say that I think you are generalizing far too much. I know many people who describe an event we both experienced and their version gets more elaborate with time.

Nice try, but only slightly applicable. Now we get to argue about how long a piece of string is - such as if I forget how much I forget.

What was your point again? :rolleyes:
 
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