South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[RandFan]

More proof liberals are like ISIS in trying to erase history.

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Democrats-drop-Thomas-Jefferson-and-Andrew-6400544.php

Oh my god! How will our children learn of Jefferson and Jackson? Truly sad news. Is it okay to even speak their names anymore and how much will it cost to destroy all of those history books?

 

[NoahFence]

Oh my god! How will our children learn of Jefferson and Jackson? Truly sad news. Is it okay to even speak their names anymore and how much will it cost to destroy all of those history books?

Every time I see a post from certain folks I can only think of King Arthur turning to his friends saying "what an eccentric performance"

 

[Giordano]

Oh my god! How will our children learn of Jefferson and Jackson? Truly sad news. Is it okay to even speak their names anymore and how much will it cost to destroy all of those history books?

And their faces on the money! Oh my god! And Mount Rushmore! There is so much obliteration to do! Mark my words: the addition of a women to the $10 bill is only a beginning of the insidious destruction of our (and I mean white males of course) heritage!

 

[Craig B]

And their faces on the money! Oh my god! And Mount Rushmore! There is so much obliteration to do! Mark my words: the addition of a women to the $10 bill is only a beginning of the insidious destruction of our (and I mean white males of course) heritage!

There's been a woman on UK coins since 1952. That's the least of our problems.

 

[Giordano]

There's been a woman on UK coins since 1952. That's the least of our problems.

Ha ha- and the British empire has considerably diminished since then! Now, if you had left Jefferson and Jackson on your coinage.. umm... wait a second...

I'll be back after I think this through a bit more.

 

[dudalb]

IMHO a dumb butt PC move on the Dems part,but not proof of some Orwellian eraser of History like logger claims.
And when it comes to Orwellian distortion of history,the Right Wing is much,much,worse with what it going on with the new Texas Circulum of History, which tries to erase Slavery as a cause of the Civil War among other things.....

 

[lobosrul]

Ha ha- and the British empire has considerably diminished since then! Now, if you had left Jefferson and Jackson on your coinage.. umm... wait a second...

I'll be back after I think this through a bit more.

You know they also had a woman on their coinage from 1837 to 1901 when the Empire massively expanded, right?

WW2 effectively brought an end to the British Empire. Yeah they hung on to some possesions well after 1952 but the writing was on the wall before then.

 

[Walter Ego]

Your post was misleading. I got the impression that the monument was a plaque. Yes, it's off to the side, but I wouldn't say it was "tucked away". It's hard to tuck away something that big. There's only so much room in front of the statehouse. To fit a monument of that size in front would require a total rework of the plaza in front of the building. It wouldn't work.

Your post was reinforced by articles I read during the South Carolina debate. Some legislators were proposing amendments to remove all monuments or just the African American History Monument (AAHM from now on), and made the same point you did. The Confederate flag was front and center, in full view, AAHM was shoved off to the back. It was part of a compromise in 2001 and it was suggested that they did as little as possible to honor the commitment to an AAHM. I pictured a very small historical marker.

When I saw the picture on the petition, I realized that that was not correct. Your photos and the various articles had created a false impression.

I was in Columbia. If you were walking or driving by the front of the building, the Confederate memorial and flag dominated the view (the Confederate memorial still does at street level). The AAHM was hardly noticeable unless you went looking for it or knew it was there.

 

[bruto]

So it seems one person was there physically and another spiritually. A standoff!

 

[Meadmaker]

IMHO a dumb butt PC move on the Dems part,but not proof of some Orwellian eraser of History like logger claims.
And when it comes to Orwellian distortion of history,the Right Wing is much,much,worse with what it going on with the new Texas Circulum of History, which tries to erase Slavery as a cause of the Civil War among other things.....

I'm taking that with a grain of salt just because of an article that was linked earlier in the thread.

That article noted what the Texas school board was doing, but it also mentioned the name of textbook that was an example. That textbook, "American Pageant" happened to be my high school text book, and I know that that textbook emphasized slavery as the cause of the Civil War, but not only that, it emphasized slavery as the dominant political issue in every significant rivalry from the time of the Constitution to the time of the Civil War. It was from that book that I learned about Dredd Scott, Nat Turner, John Brown, the Missouri compromise, the Kansas-Nebraska act and every other major political development up to the Civil War and beyond. So, if that book wasn't good enough for the critics, I just don't know what the real complaint is.

I don't know what the Texas school board is actually doing with respect to rewriting history, I just know that in the only article I read on the subject, something leapt out at me as being inconsistent with the theme of the article.

 

[Meadmaker]

I was in Columbia. If you were walking or driving by the front of the building, the Confederate memorial and flag dominated the view (the Confederate memorial still does at street level). The AAHM was hardly noticeable unless you went looking for it or knew it was there.

I don't want to accuse you of being part of some conspiracy to misrepresent the situation. If it seems that I was doing that, I apologize.

Nevertheless, I know that I was misled by your post, and the message of your post was echoed in media articles on the same subject.

Yes of course, the AAHM is at the side. Where else would they have put it? There was already a big freakin' obelisk in the front. Yes, they could redesign the area around the capitol building, and maybe they will someday, but would you put the AAHM next to the stairs front stairs?

More importantly, it shouldn't be about dueling monuments. The worst thing about the petition is the thing that Giordanno pointed out. It shows that they are thinking that there is one monument for them, and one monument for us. (Fill in appropriate values for "us" and "them") and that somehow it's important for there to be parity, and that if one side loses something the other side loses something. That's dumb.

 

[SezMe]

That article noted what the Texas school board was doing, but it also mentioned the name of textbook that was an example. That textbook, "American Pageant" happened to be my high school text book, and I know that that textbook emphasized slavery as the cause of the Civil War, but not only that, it emphasized slavery as the dominant political issue in every significant rivalry from the time of the Constitution to the time of the Civil War.

How long ago were you in high school? Things change, you know.

 

[Foolmewunz]

How long ago were you in high school? Things change, you know.

It wouldn't matter with American Pageant. It comes down forcefully on slavery as THE cause of the Civil War. I'd be curious as to what sort of nit-picking is being done to claim that it's even remotely being apologetic for slavery.

 

[bruto]

I don't want to accuse you of being part of some conspiracy to misrepresent the situation. If it seems that I was doing that, I apologize.

Nevertheless, I know that I was misled by your post, and the message of your post was echoed in media articles on the same subject.

Yes of course, the AAHM is at the side. Where else would they have put it? There was already a big freakin' obelisk in the front. Yes, they could redesign the area around the capitol building, and maybe they will someday, but would you put the AAHM next to the stairs front stairs?

More importantly, it shouldn't be about dueling monuments. The worst thing about the petition is the thing that Giordanno pointed out. It shows that they are thinking that there is one monument for them, and one monument for us. (Fill in appropriate values for "us" and "them") and that somehow it's important for there to be parity, and that if one side loses something the other side loses something. That's dumb.

I'm with you most of the way, except for that damned flag. I still think they should have gotten rid of it instead of just moving it to another prominent location, and that things are better now that they have done what they should have done long ago.

It's been omigod it's been 50 years since I had to read The American Pageant, but I'm betting the basic information has not changed all that much. I certainly got the impression then that slavery was the hot button issue not only in the Civil War, but in the expansion of the country and the formation of territories, and so forth (as you recall too). I don't much trust Texas to do anything right, but they'll have to apply some pretty serious spin to get that book to say something else, I think.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Slavery was why Taylor sent troops to go March back and forth across the Mexican border until Santa Anna got PO'd enough to attack - because the balance of slave and free state numbers in congress was at risk with new states in the west (ie, Kansas). Manifest destiny was a easy sell buzzword but the goal was increasing the number of free states. The U.S. could have demanded Mexico, but settled terms with just the "southwest" terrain, north of the natural river boundary. We didn't even get Baja California.

 

[Craig B]

You know they also had a woman on their coinage from 1837 to 1901 when the Empire massively expanded, right?

WW2 effectively brought an end to the British Empire. Yeah they hung on to some possesions well after 1952 but the writing was on the wall before then.

The final words were written on that wall by US President Eisenhower.

The three allies had attained a number of their military objectives, but the [Suez] Canal was now useless and heavy pressure from the United States and the USSR forced them to withdraw. U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower had strongly warned Britain not to invade; he now threatened serious damage to the British financial system. Historians conclude the crisis "signified the end of Great Britain's role as one of the world's major powers".

 

[Aepervius]

I don't want to accuse you of being part of some conspiracy to misrepresent the situation. If it seems that I was doing that, I apologize.

Nevertheless, I know that I was misled by your post, and the message of your post was echoed in media articles on the same subject.

Yes of course, the AAHM is at the side. Where else would they have put it? There was already a big freakin' obelisk in the front. Yes, they could redesign the area around the capitol building, and maybe they will someday, but would you put the AAHM next to the stairs front stairs?

More importantly, it shouldn't be about dueling monuments. The worst thing about the petition is the thing that Giordanno pointed out. It shows that they are thinking that there is one monument for them, and one monument for us. (Fill in appropriate values for "us" and "them") and that somehow it's important for there to be parity, and that if one side loses something the other side loses something. That's dumb.

They could have moved the flag in a museum back in 2000, they could have moved it to the side, the other side, they could have done a lot of thing. Instead they put the flag full-face buckacke in full-frontal right before the building.

I think this is an important point you keep missing.

 

[Craig B]

Civilians acting as unofficial guards have appeared outside some centres since five service personnel were shot dead last week in Tennessee ... One group appeared in Cleburne, Texas, armed with assault rifles and calling themselves Operation Hero Guard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33662891.

Isn't that rather insulting to the U.S. Army, which is presumably capable of defending its own premises?

No, I think these gun-toting militia men would be better employed defending Black churchgoers, who have also recently been attacked, and who are in the nature of things are more vulnerable than soldiers.

 

[Meadmaker]

I'm with you most of the way, except for that damned flag.

I think you are with me on the flag, too. I didn't say anything good about the flag.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Of course they did and they got it wrong anyway, they are called chips.

Trying to erase all record of the concept of freedom from human history, eh?