Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Strozzi]

We established the Mez' DNA at your purported "1/500" of a grain of salt weighing 5.82 g /cubic gram, was 29200 picograms, which meets your self-reported criterion of being >100 picograms.

Being low copy number, Stef's lab were only able to perform one DNA test on it, and it was a definitively strong DNA profile of Mez, which the prosecution, defense and judges all agreed on (15 allelles; basic legal minimum being 10).

There is no question it is Mez', was on the knife blade of a kitchen knife that had been scrubbed so clean, only about five traces of organic matter could be found, and which the defense expert DNA scientists witnessed Stef performing, as is their legal right and expectation.

There are no two ways about it, the test was valid, came up with a highly significant result and is absolutely positively Mez' DNA profile beyond any doubt at all.

Vixen, you are fooling few people here when you write (connect) in one sentence "low copy nimber" and "Stef's lab was only able to perform one test on it". Low copy number is LCN. Stef does not have LCN equipment or LCN protocols.

In fact, had the alleged sample existed and been of sufficient quantity to be tested by Stef's lab she should have had adequate matter to repeat the test a second time.

 

[Strozzi]

Oh, I see. A real burglar would have purposely chosen a non-optimal size rock to fool the cops. Perhaps a small one, a pebble, that you need to throw at high speed in order to break the window. This being the master plan to throw off the cop's investigation.

"Look, dumb cops, in case you are not sure it is a staged burglary, here is a rock of pebble size that even a petite girl could throw.

Sorry, don't know what a Kimo sabi is?

American children were raised on the radio program (1933) and then TV show about a fictional American cowboy named The Long Ranger and his Indian sidekick Tonto. Tonto always called the Long Ranger "Kimo Sabi", as in "Yes, Kimo Sabi". It resumably means "friend" in the Comanche language.

Comedians joke that in the final episode as the two were walking across a horse corral Tonto pointed to the ground and warned "Careful, Long Ranger, don't step in the kimo sabi".

 

[Vixen]

Many posters have presented solid evidence supporting each one of the issues I raised. I am sorry that you will not accept them but I don't think you care about the evidence,

The reason why all interrogations should be recorded in their entirety in audio and video formats is to get an idea just what was said. Of course again, you don't care.

If a man walks into a police station and blurts out a confession, can you see the difficulty in the logistics of police being able to wind back time so they can get it on camera?

In law, a simple signature signing a statement which is true to the best of your knowledge is sufficient.

"You don't care" = logical fallacy straw man.

 

[Vixen]

Oh, I see. A real burglar would have purposely chosen a non-optimal size rock to fool the cops. Perhaps a small one, a pebble, that you need to throw at high speed in order to break the window. This being the master plan to throw off the cop's investigation.

"Look, dumb cops, in case you are not sure it is a staged burglary, here is a rock of pebble size that even a petite girl could throw.

Sorry, don't know what a Kimo sabi is?

Even terse js202 came down hard on me saying burglars will use a small implement and small hammer to clear glass, as the last thing they want is noise.

Enter rationalisation # umpty-nine: "Oh, it was deliberately loud and Rudy hid behind a bush after throwing it, as he wanted to test whether anyone was home, and whether any of the neighbours are around."

 

[Diocletus]

In the UK, it is vanishingly rare that persons convicted of a crime are even allowed an appeal.

You were specifically talking about a conviction for murder. I'm not going to bother looking this up, but I seriously doubt that the UK refuses to allow persons convicted of murder to appeal.

 

[Bill Williams]

If a man walks into a police station and blurts out a confession, can you see the difficulty in the logistics of police being able to wind back time so they can get it on camera?
In law, a simple signature signing a statement which is true to the best of your knowledge is sufficient.

"You don't care" = logical fallacy straw man.

Fortunately, this has nothing to do with subject of this thread. And Vixen knows it. Which makes Vixen a liar.

Amanda Knox, while doing homework at the Questura, was ushered into an interrogation room by Rita Ficarra. A video/audio equipped interrogation room. In the middle of the night. Vixen has readily conceded that Anna Doninno, the translator, acted poorly when she dropped her role to become a mediator. She was the one who encouraged Amanda to imagine what could have happened, and why not - Donnino was the only one in he room other than Amanda who spoke English. Mignini himself disagrees with Vixen, himself saying the reason they didn't recod was for budgetary reasons, not the difficulty of getting Knox in front of a camera.

Yet the fallacy continues. Vixen implies Amanda walked in and blurted out a confession. This factoid will be repeated a few weeks from now as if it had never been replied to.

 

[Vixen]

You were specifically talking about a conviction for murder. I'm not going to bother looking this up, but I seriously doubt that the UK refuses to allow persons convicted of murder to appeal.

You can appeal, it's your right, but whether it is allowed is very rare. You have to show a legal error, perversion, new evidence not known of as at the time of the trial, or public interest (eg, miscarriage of justice).

 

[Vixen]

[/HILITE]

American children were raised on the radio program (1933) and then TV show about a fictional American cowboy named The Long Ranger and his Indian sidekick Tonto. Tonto always called the Long Ranger "Kimo Sabi", as in "Yes, Kimo Sabi". It resumably means "friend" in the Comanche language.

Comedians joke that in the final episode as the two were walking across a horse corral Tonto pointed to the ground and warned "Careful, Long Ranger, don't step in the kimo sabi".

For some reason, it struck a great chord with cockneys. I had a cockney friend who used to say, Kimo Sabi? to imply, do you speak English? Do you not understand? For some reason, it stuck.

I thought it good shorthand, rather like "boaty". Insulting someone, without their realising.

Not that I would do such a thing, being as I am, very direct.

 

[Planigale]

Sound of Planigale screaming and hitting head on desk;

At least I don't follow mindless propaganda, which Uncle Joe would have been proud of.

If I say a thing three times, it becomes true. ~ Tweedledee and Tweedledum, Lewis Carroll

Can't you get anything right! The Bellman - Hunting of the Snark.

 

[Vixen]

Oh, I see. A real burglar would have purposely chosen a non-optimal size rock to fool the cops. Perhaps a small one, a pebble, that you need to throw at high speed in order to break the window. This being the master plan to throw off the cop's investigation.

"Look, dumb cops, in case you are not sure it is a staged burglary, here is a rock of pebble size that even a petite girl could throw.

Sorry, don't know what a Kimo sabi is?

Absolutely, spot on.

A real burglar would use a small implement to break the glass and it would be a real burglary and not a staged one.

 

[Diocletus]

You can appeal, it's your right, but whether it is allowed is very rare. You have to show a legal error, perversion, new evidence not known of as at the time of the trial, or public interest (eg, miscarriage of justice).

Um . . . "allowing" an appeal and "winning" an appeal are two different things.

An appeal is "allowed" when the appellate court exercises its discretion to hear an appeal. If your appeal is allowed, you still have to win.

Some appeals are mandatory, meaning that the appellate court has no discretion to disallow the appeal. You simply file the appeal and win or lose.

I would be very surprised in the UK doesn't have mandatory appeals for people convicted of serious crimes like murder. Of course, many people probably lose those appeals, but that's not the same as the appeal not being "allowed."

 

[Planigale]

You can appeal, it's your right, but whether it is allowed is very rare. You have to show a legal error, perversion, new evidence not known of as at the time of the trial, or public interest (eg, miscarriage of justice).

Yes. The inadequacy of the appeals process has been recognised so there is an extra judicial process for England and Wales; the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
"The CCRC started work in April 1997. Between then and 30 June 2015 it has:
Referred 591 cases. Of those 565 have been heard by the appeal courts; 389 appeals were won and 162 lost.
858 cases are currently under review and 566 are awaiting review"
http://www.ccrc.gov.uk/

 

[Diocletus]

Absolutely, spot on.

A real burglar would use a small implement to break the glass and it would be a real burglary and not a staged one.

What about these guys: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...andgrab-burglaries-20150303-story.html#page=1

They must not be real burglars because they used a rather large implement.

 

[Vixen]

Sound of Planigale screaming and hitting head on desk;

Can't you get anything right! The Bellman - Hunting of the Snark.

Do you "scream and hit head on desk" over the slightest thing?

OK, you got me there; it is the Hunting of the Snark which I actually saw performed at the Palladium.

Well done!

 

[Anode]

For some reason, it struck a great chord with cockneys. I had a cockney friend who used to say, Kimo Sabi? to imply, do you speak English? Do you not understand? For some reason, it stuck.

I thought it good shorthand, rather like "boaty". Insulting someone, without their realising.

Not that I would do such a thing, being as I am, very direct.

I see. A condescending tone, as I thought. Well, nice to meet you Vixen. Have a good day.

And I think it's actually "kemosabe", "Kemosahbee", or "kemo sabe". For future reference...

 

[Vixen]

Um . . . "allowing" an appeal and "winning" an appeal are two different things.

An appeal is "allowed" when the appellate court exercises its discretion to hear an appeal. If your appeal is allowed, you still have to win.

Some appeals are mandatory, meaning that the appellate court has no discretion to disallow the appeal. You simply file the appeal and win or lose.

I would be very surprised in the UK doesn't have mandatory appeals for people convicted of serious crimes like murder. Of course, many people probably lose those appeals, but that's not the same as the appeal not being "allowed."

No, it doesn't. English law aims for closure. Judge and Jury's verdict final.

You can apply for any appeal at any level and over any court decision.

Once verdict passed, you can apply for an appeal hearing, to put your case.

Ninety-nine out of a hundred appeal applications are refused by the registrars - normally judges - who do the sifting, without any further hearing.

 

[Vixen]

What about these guys: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...andgrab-burglaries-20150303-story.html#page=1

They must not be real burglars because they used a rather large implement.

Hello? They are smash n grab robbers. As in "smash!!!"

 

[Anode]

Absolutely, spot on.

A real burglar would use a small implement to break the glass and it would be a real burglary and not a staged one.

Well, Grinder has stated on multiple occasions that Rudy was not a real burglar but was more of a "fence". Therefore it is possible and even probable that Rudy threw the "boulder". He was big and strong enough yet not a real burglar.

There we have it folks! Rudy was a fence and threw the rock!

 

[Vixen]

I see. A condescending tone, as I thought. Well, nice to meet you Vixen. Have a good day.

And I think it's actually "kemosabe", "Kemosahbee", or "kemo sabe". For future reference...

Not condescending. Friendly and jocular.

Good day to you, too!

 

[bagels]

Absolutely, spot on.

A real burglar would use a small implement to break the glass and it would be a real burglary and not a staged one.

Luckily for Amanda she happened to choose an accomplice who was connected by criminal evidence to a previous break-in involving a rock smashed window break-in. Here's how one of the victims of this break-in described the rock:

"window was broken with the aid of a piece of porphyry, a big rock that we found there at the spot." ... "persons that entered with the help of this very heavy porphyry"