South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Meadmaker]

Don't we also all agree that for First Amendment reasons (at least) no government should ban the display of the Confederate flag by private individuals? That is how I feel, and I can't recall any post that states the opposite.

So we can stop here. Frankly I would like to do so, because I think we have all stated our positions and our rationale for them.

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.


Or.....is there anything else?

 

[pgwenthold]

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.

I think that is fair.

 

[Aepervius]

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.


Or.....is there anything else?

Pretty much.

Although... I would add you should get ride of that horseman rider statue with laser eyes and scary grin scream. Or make a redo of his head. Now that's a crime against art. Either that or it is a silent eternal scream.

 

[RandFan]

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.


Or.....is there anything else?

 

[RandFan]

Yes. More love all around.

I do want to thank Meadmaker for his contributions. Sometimes I think I learn more when I just shut up and lurk. This has been a very thought provoking thread for me.

Seriously, thanks.

 

[Rare Truth]

War of Secession seems appropriate.

However, I wonder what they called it at the time? I know that Lincoln called it a civil war in the Gettysburg Address, and yesterday I read Nathan Bedford Forrest's farewell address to his troops, and he said "civil war" in that address.

When I was a kid, I always heard "Civil War", but southerners would say "war between the States". Somewhere along the line I started hearing "War of Northern Aggression".


Of course, in terms of communication, it doesn't matter one whit. It's all about identifying what team you are on, isn't it? "Our side" calls it XXXXX, "their side" calls it YYYYY. It almost becomes a sort of loyalty oath.

They called it the Civil War then, too.

In my archives, I once had a huge book, newspaper size (called "folio") -- which was published December 1861. It was the original, First Edition, 1861 printing.

The title was "History of the Civil War."

Little did they know then, they had much more history to write.

 

[Giordano]

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.


Or.....is there anything else?

I'm on board.

 

[paulhutch]

Yes. More love all around.

So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.

Or.....is there anything else?

I agree with all that too.

 

[DavidJames]

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.


Or.....is there anything else?

My only comment would be I would have no problems should any government body decide to eliminate flying the flag where it currently is flying and preventing flying it in the future.

 

[bruto]

Yes. More love all around.


So, if everyone agrees that

1. South Carolina should have taken down that flag. and
2. Private individuals can display it wherever they want and
3. What those private people are thinking is their own business, but they have to understand that they might have to deal with the enmity of others, and that those others may even question their sincerity about what they claim to believe and
4. Government doesn't really need to do anything else.

If we all agree on those things, then we all ought to agree that this has been very productive and we all agree on all those positions.


Or.....is there anything else?

As the old saying goes, close enough for Government work.

 

[Checkmite]

Interesting method of counter-protest

 

[NoahFence]

Interesting method of counter-protest

Blocked at work - can you describe it?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Blocked at work - can you describe it?

I believe that is likely giving them a soundtrack by a Sousaphone.

 

[Belz...]

It’s so easy to sit in our air conditioned 21st century homes and pass judgment on those who have gone before us. What is it that makes us superior to those slave owners, and those who supported that evil regime?

Objectively ? Nothing.

But we don't own people anymore. That's good enough for me.

 

[Belz...]

BALEETED.

 

[Mike!]

Blocked at work - can you describe it?

Imagine a KKK march with a goofy bumbly cartoon soundtrack. A single sousaphone can even make 'Ride of the Valkyries' sound silly.

 

[Belz...]

Not much difference between liberals and ISIS

Are you trying to out-conservative Elf Grinder 3000 ?

"States' Rights" was a horrible concept.

I guess States are considered individual countries within a larger federation.

Just because some racists murderous jerk bigots hijacks a symbol doesn't mean that all who use that symbol agree with those sentiments

"Hijack" ? Rewriting history much ?

Yeah, it was a "rebel flag" in the sense that the south rebelled over slavery.

 

[Belz...]

And there you go putting thoughts in my head that aren't there.

Well, you did say that some owners treated their human property like beloved pets. That's still horrible, right ?

Photograph from a currently-ongoing heritage rally taking place outside the SC state house.

[qimg]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c159/jk_mellifera/CKOD_QBWUAAIUeu_zpsegxnydrx.jpg[/qimg]

Well, all that's missing is an ISIS flag and we're good to go.

I can't read their minds and neither can you.

I can read their minds just fine, since they are communicating their thoughts with words and symbols and actions.

Quite obviously I was referring to the GAR as a philanthropic organization not the KKK.

That's the way I understood your post.

Maybe in your mind.

Not to most of us.

Have you taken a poll ?

 

[pgwenthold]

Have you taken a poll ?

We don't have to, because it's nonsense.

Very obviously, the most apparent meaning of the flag is one of hate. When folks are using the confederate flag to protest the President as he arrives, they don't have to clarify to make sure everyone understands that they are using it to express their dislike of him.

Meanwhile, those who are claiming that it means something else are the ones who have to plead "Heritage, not hate" to try to convince everyone that they really aren't racist, see. They work so hard that they have to make flags that have the "Heritage, no hate" written on them.

Those who are using the flag as a symbol of hatred don't need to do that. Why not? Because that's the default position of it, as a symbol of hatred. Everyone recognizes that, including those who want to insist it means something else. That's why they work so hard to make sure everyone knows that, to them, it doesn't mean that.

 

[paulhutch]

Here's a petition that made me laugh, they think a petition with 50K internet users will influence the SC legislature to tear down a monument.
Petitioning South Carolina State Legislature, Remove The African American Monument

This other petition, that the previous petition is supporting, is also funny.
Petitioning The Governments of the United States of American and The State South Carolina, Ordinance of Secession