Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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I honestly haven't thought the downstairs was significant in Meredith's murder (in that it played a part in her murder). The bloody image in the film capture is interesting but I don't think it can be tied to the bloody image on Meredith's bed. For theory if it was made by the same object wouldn't the blood have been less on that object by the time it laid on the downstairs bed?

I also don't think there are missing test results, however, I know there are others who do not agree with me. I am willing to read what you have linked and will let you know if any of it changes my opinion.

See: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/lab-data-suppression/

Documents disclosed in the midst of the trial reveal that the prosecution engaged in a massive suppression of DNA evidence relevant to the case. Indeed, the prosecution suppressed in excess of 100 out of 173 genetic profiles that the laboratory processed in just the first month of the investigation. The suppressed results are for batch controls and evidentiary samples, including rape kit evidence and evidence of an additional crime scene in the downstairs apartment. Most critically, there has been a suppression of almost all evidence relating to the time period and batch in which the controversial Rep. 36b (allegedly the murder weapon) was processed, with the available data (and missing data) strongly suggesting that there was a serious problem in the processing of this trace. The prosecution’s suppression of this data deprived the defendants of a full and fair opportunity to investigate laboratory contamination and to examine potentially exculpatory genetic evidence. The concealed records prove a pattern of contamination and improper laboratory practice that eviscerate the prosecution’s key evidence against the defendants.

The analysis shows:

The prosecution hid the results of early and decisive DNA tests excluding Raffaele Sollecito as the sexual assailant, securing on improper grounds the pre-trial incarceration of Sollecito and Knox (and Lumumba) to the severe prejudice of the defense;
The prosecution concealed the initial results for tests performed on the two key items of evidence, i.e., the kitchen knife (Rep. 36b) and the bra clasp (Rep. 165b), and instead, produced only the results of suspicious “do over” tests (re-runs), without disclosing the data from the initial tests or even the fact that the subsequent tests were “do overs”;
The prosecution concealed that the kitchen knife profile was generated within a set of tests for which 90% of the results have been suppressed, strongly suggesting the occurrence of a severe contamination event that the prosecution continues to hide;
The prosecution claimed that contamination of the bra clasp was impossible, even though the bra clasp profile was produced during a set of tests for which there is documented proof of contamination;
The prosecution falsely portrayed the DNA laboratory as pristine and perfectly maintained, even though the lab’s own documents demonstrate that it was plagued with repeated contamination events and machine malfunctions that were known to the lab;
The prosecution has withheld the results from a massive number of DNA tests (well over 100), including probably exculpatory profiles relating to the sexual assault and a secondary crime scene downstairs;
The prosecution has hidden all of the records of the DNA amplification process—the most likely place for laboratory contamination to have occurred—including all of the contamination-control tests for this process.
 
Another random factoid:
Patrick Lumumba's pad was searched.
There is a police report dated 9:35am on Nov. 6, 2007.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/lumumba-police-search.pdf

I think there is a misunderstanding. The police document shows only that a cell phone (Nokia brand, with ID numbers) and "TIM" (SIM?) card was taken by the police from Lumumba. I don't believe this was from a search of Lumumba's flat, but was given to the police by Lumumba at the request of the police. He signed at the lower left of the form.

No other items are listed on the form.

The Italian procedural law referenced, CPP Article 354, allows the search and seizure of items from persons caught "in flagrante delicto" or attempting to escape, or ordered into precautionary detention. This law allows for a search of the person's body and/or premises.

ETA: One might think if police had really believed Amanda's coerced false statement that they would have seized knives from Lumumba's flat to look for a murder weapon. But they apparently were only interested in his phone, while they seized two knives, IIRC, one the random kitchen knife, from Raffaele's apartment. Incompetence or working toward the goal of generating certain false "evidence"?
 
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I'm busy as the one armed paper hanger so only scanning here but have a few questions.

Were they tapping 80+ people and 5 places before the fifth?

Why would the police suppress the downstairs info to help Rudi when they produced so much info upstairs to convict him?

RW the shoe print on wet semen picture I haven't looked at but have no doubt you are correct still leaves me wondering why Guede was so adamant in his Skype that the semen wasn't his. Why he didn't make up a story to cover that as he did with most everything else remains unanswered for me.

Has Vixen come up with one other case where the murder knife tested negative for blood and yet produced the DNA of the victim? I must add that the knife can't have been the victims and the DNA must be found on the blade not just the handle. To me this is much stronger evidence that the kids weren't involved than history or motive.

Off for the dog walk and another day of painting to beat the carpet guys. :)

ETA: IIRC Patrick's places weren't searched and non of his knives were tested from either location and his wife was allowed to remain in their place
 
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Another random factoid:
Patrick Lumumba's pad was searched.
There is a police report dated 9:35am on Nov. 6, 2007.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/lumumba-police-search.pdf

The filename is a little misleading :( This is the "Sequestration Note" concerning only Lumumba's mobile phone and SIM Card.
The text reads:
QUESTURA DI PERUGIA
DIVISIONE SQUADRA MOBILE
5^ Sez. Antidroga

OGGETTO: VERBALE DI SEQUESTRO redatto ai sensi dell'articolo 354 del Codice di Procedura Penale a carico di: DIYA Lumumba, nato a Kindu (Zaire) il 05.05.69, residente a Perugia in via Raffaello 16, di fatto domiciliato in via Eugubina n. 77. Identificato a mezzo C.I. nr. 1191437AA, rilasciata dal Comune di Perugia il 22.12.7006

Il 06.11.2007, alle ore 09.35 negli Uffici della Squadra Mobile della Questura di Perugia.
I sottoscritti, Ufficiali ed Agenti di Polizia Giudiziaria Isp.C. FICARRA Rita e RAGNI Sergio in servizio presso la Squadra Mobile della Questura di Perugia danno atto che nelle medesime circostanze di tempo e di luogo sopra indicate, hanno proceduto al sequestro di:
  • telefonino marca Nokia modello 6070 di colore grigio, riportante codice IMEI: 354548014727987;
  • Scheda TIM avente utenza 3387195723 e codice IMSI : 222015300304251.
Essendoci il pericolo che le cose o le tracce di cui sopra si alterassero o si disperdessero e non potendo intervenire il Pubblico Ministero si procedeva al SEQUESTRO ai sensi dell'art. 354 del Codice di Procedura Penale.

Precedentemente all'esecuzione dell'atto l'interessato veniva reventivamente avvisato della facoltà di farsi assistere da un difensore o da altra persona di fiducia durante la Sua esecuzione senza che ciò comportasse ritardo:

La stessa dichiarava di rinunciare a tale facoltà.

Fatto, riletto, confermato e sottoscritto dai verbalizzanti e dall'interessato che ne riceve copia.
google:
POLICE HEADQUARTERS OF PERUGIA
MOBILE DIVISION TEAM
5th Sec. drug​

SUBJECT: REPORT OF SEIZURE drawn up under Article 354 of the Code of Criminal Procedure against: DIYA Lumumba born in Kindu (Zaire) on 05.05.69, based in Perugia in Via Raffaello 16, in fact domiciled in via Eugubina n . 77. Identified by C.I. nr. 1191437AA, issued by the city of Perugia on 22.12.7006

On 06.11.2007, at 09:35 in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Police of Perugia.

The undersigned, officers and agents of the Judicial Police Isp.C. FICARRA Rita and Sergio RAGNI employed by the Flying Squad of the Police of Perugia acknowledge that in the same circumstances of time and place indicated above, they proceeded to the seizure of:
  • mobile phone brand Nokia model 6070 gray, showing IMEI: 354548014727987;
  • Card TIM having users 3387195723 and IMSI code: 222015300304251.
Since there is a danger that things or traces referred to above are way disturbed or unable to intervene and disperse the prosecutor they proceeded to the seizure pursuant to art. 354 of the Code of Criminal Procedure.

Prior to the execution of the act the person concerned was previously notified of the right to be assisted by counsel or a person of trust during his execution without thereby delay:

It informed to renounce that option.

Indeed, re-read, confirmed and signed by reporting officers and by the person concerned who receives a copy .
 
The filename is a little misleading :( This is the "Sequestration Note" concerning only Lumumba's mobile phone and SIM Card.
The text reads:
google:

Okay. These grey quotes still aren't cooperating but one can read above my post to see what I am referencing.

There was a search of Patrick's home and business. The documents can be located on The Meredith Wiki under 2007 Investigations/Arrests (may also be at The Amanda Wiki but that I do not know). A number of items were taken from his home, mostly clothing and shoes. Not sure about knives or other items tested but remember a sponge and receipt records from the bar.
 
I'm busy as the one armed paper hanger so only scanning here but have a few questions.

Were they tapping 80+ people and 5 places before the fifth?

Why would the police suppress the downstairs info to help Rudi when they produced so much info upstairs to convict him?

RW the shoe print on wet semen picture I haven't looked at but have no doubt you are correct still leaves me wondering why Guede was so adamant in his Skype that the semen wasn't his. Why he didn't make up a story to cover that as he did with most everything else remains unanswered for me.

Has Vixen come up with one other case where the murder knife tested negative for blood and yet produced the DNA of the victim? I must add that the knife can't have been the victims and the DNA must be found on the blade not just the handle. To me this is much stronger evidence that the kids weren't involved than history or motive.

Off for the dog walk and another day of painting to beat the carpet guys. :)

ETA: IIRC Patrick's places weren't searched and non of his knives were tested from either location and his wife was allowed to remain in their place

its a shame the prosecution/investigative lead didnt spend more time with Rudy and given up interest in him so easily...instead focusing on other non-associated issues.

you should have gone tile instead of carpet...my tile is like new 20yrs later, the carpet needs replaced again (3rd time, 4th time?$$$$$$)
 
Okay. These grey quotes still aren't cooperating but one can read above my post to see what I am referencing.
Try this:

  1. Place the cursor at the location in your post where you want to place the "quote".
  2. Copy and paste the text you want to show up as a "quote" into the message editor.
  3. Mark the text of the quote
  4. Click on the little "speech bubble" icon in the menu above the message editor, the result looks like this in the submitted message:

There was a search of Patrick's home and business. The documents can be located on The Meredith Wiki under 2007 Investigations/Arrests (may also be at The Amanda Wiki but that I do not know). A number of items were taken from his home, mostly clothing and shoes. Not sure about knives or other items tested but remember a sponge and receipt records from the bar.
I'm not so sure about the search of his home. This document mentions his laptop and cash register taken from the bar. The test results index only mentions two items related to Lumumba:
Exhibits acquired in the course of technical investigation carried out near the location “LE CHIC” operated by DIYA LUMUMBA, site in Via Alessi nr. 66, Perugia, on date 11/14/2007 (report of Initial Technical Verifications (tests) 11/14/2007)
Rep.196 – Nr.1 Yellow sponge with green abrasive side (sample A) – page 355 A.F./237 R.;
Rep.197 – Nr. 1 Blue and white dust cloth of quadrangle shape (sample B) – page 358 A.F./238 R.;
It looks like neither Wiki has the document related to that search on Nov 14th. :( and if there had been an additional search of his home the related document is also missing.
ETA: I was wrong about the search of Lumumba's home here's the document.:o
 
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Try this:

  1. Place the cursor at the location in your post where you want to place the "quote".
  2. Copy and paste the text you want to show up as a "quote" into the message editor.
  3. Mark the text of the quote
  4. Click on the little "speech bubble" icon in the menu above the message editor, the result looks like this in the submitted message:


I'm not so sure about the search of his home. This document mentions his laptop and cash register taken from the bar. The test results index only mentions two items related to Lumumba:
It looks like neither Wiki has the document related to that search on Nov 14th. :( and if there had been an additional search of his home the related document is also missing.

His home was searched on November 6. Items seized look to be mainly clothing/shoes. Any additional searches to his home I don't know.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...e-notice-home-search-Via-Eugubina-Lumumba.pdf

I thought I had seen the notice to search his business and items seized but maybe I am remembering the items from the test results or news articles. If there is a document and I locate it I will bring it back here.

Thank you for the tip on the quotes. I will try to implement its use in a future post. I do like the spoiler tag.
 
His home was searched on November 6. Items seized look to be mainly clothing/shoes. Any additional searches to his home I don't know.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...e-notice-home-search-Via-Eugubina-Lumumba.pdf

I thought I had seen the notice to search his business and items seized but maybe I am remembering the items from the test results or news articles. If there is a document and I locate it I will bring it back here.

Thank you for the tip on the quotes. I will try to implement its use in a future post. I do like the spoiler tag.
I missed that document :o It's located under "Arrests" and not under "police work" like the others...
 
I'm busy as the one armed paper hanger so only scanning here but have a few questions.

Were they tapping 80+ people and 5 places before the fifth?

Why would the police suppress the downstairs info to help Rudi when they produced so much info upstairs to convict him? RW the shoe print on wet semen picture I haven't looked at but have no doubt you are correct still leaves me wondering why Guede was so adamant in his Skype that the semen wasn't his. Why he didn't make up a story to cover that as he did with most everything else remains unanswered for me.

Has Vixen come up with one other case where the murder knife tested negative for blood and yet produced the DNA of the victim? I must add that the knife can't have been the victims and the DNA must be found on the blade not just the handle. To me this is much stronger evidence that the kids weren't involved than history or motive.

Off for the dog walk and another day of painting to beat the carpet guys. :)

ETA: IIRC Patrick's places weren't searched and non of his knives were tested from either location and his wife was allowed to remain in their place

Your question which I highlighted above contains some of the answer within. 1) The police and prosecutors were not trying to help Rudi, per se, and 2) they had plenty of evidence upstairs to convict Rudi of murder.

Beyond that, they were preparing for a bigger, more prominent murder trial against an American vixen/manipulator of men and the Manga-collecting son of a wealthy Italian family. The trial of Knox and Soloecito was going to be contested, in contrast to Rudi's fast-track trial wherein Rudi acquiesced to the evidence already developed against him. Any additional perverted behavior by Rudi that the police or prosecutor could document (such as the semen evidence which Stefanoni avoided analyzing) would put more focus on Rudi, and weaken the claims that Mignini and Commodi were going to make against Knox and Sollecito.

The same goes for the evidence that Rudi took refuge downstairs where he apparently cleaned up again, and may have taken clothes. Showing Rudi's post-murder activities downstairs would allow the defense to better defend the two defendants. So Stefanoni shut down the downstairs evidence examination and ascribed it in court to the cat. Stefanoni and the prosecutors suppressed the evidence of Rudi, precisely because it is exculpatory.

Mignini is very adept at exploiting the legal process to skew a case. Laws concerning exculpatory evidence be damned. But we should not be surprised. We saw how he portrayed himself as a notary to exploit Knox's status. Stefanoni is adept at cooking evidence and suppressing evidence.
 
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His home was searched on November 6. Items seized look to be mainly clothing/shoes. Any additional searches to his home I don't know.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...e-notice-home-search-Via-Eugubina-Lumumba.pdf

I thought I had seen the notice to search his business and items seized but maybe I am remembering the items from the test results or news articles. If there is a document and I locate it I will bring it back here.

Thank you for the tip on the quotes. I will try to implement its use in a future post. I do like the spoiler tag.

christianahannah,
Thanks for point out the seizure notice for the Lumumba's clothing from his flat!
 
"Why would the police suppress the downstairs info to help Rudi when they produced so much info upstairs to convict him?"

Because at that point Rudy was already nailed. The only explanation for how Rudy got in downstairs without breaking in was Meredith's keys. The person that stole Meredith's keys was most likely her murderer. Remember Rudy was also bleeding at that time. The downstairs crime scene could have totally exploded the prosecution's theory. But the defense lawyers did not pursue this line of attack after the Massei conviction.

"RW the shoe print on wet semen picture I haven't looked at but have no doubt you are correct still leaves me wondering why Guede was so adamant in his Skype that the semen wasn't his. Why he didn't make up a story to cover that as he did with most everything else remains unanswered for me."

He was probably very intoxicated during the attack. Maybe he just forgot about it.
 
It is interesting how often the police and prosecution have a hard time with discovery. They seem to often like not revealing to the defense all of the evidence related to a case.


So true. A case similar to Amanda's has surfaced here in the USA. Melisa, 22, went to work at a daycare center and one morning a toddler in her charge became unresponsive and died.

Two detectives pounded away on Melissa until she confessed. They told Melissa that the Medical Examiner (ME) had determined the toddler's head injury (skull fracture) had happened AFTER his parents had dropped the child off that morning.

At trial, the ME's testimony, along with Melissa's recorded confession, sealed her fate. After she was sent to prison, Melissa's dad convinced a new ME to review the autopsy report, and this new ME was shocked to discover that the autopsy evidence pointed to the child having died from an old head injury.

Several months before Melissa starting working at the daycare center there was an incident report that the staff had discovered a large bump on the child's head. The child's mother promptly took him to their doctor to be checked out, and the doctor said there was nothing seriously wrong and to just watch the child for any symptoms. As it turned out, there were minor symptoms (the child slept a lot), but not enough to raise any red flags by the parents or daycare workers.

The new ME said this old injury was a time-bomb that could have killed the child with no need of any improper actions by Melissa to set it off. Melissa was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, with an unethical ME (this case's Stefanoni), or maybe the ME was just an idiot?

The old ME who conducted the autopsy even admitted in writing that he had screwed up his autopsy findings, which were largely used to convict Melissa.

Without her taped confession the prosecution had zero actual evidence to convict Melissa, but they did have exculpatory evidence, which had been withheld from the defense.

In the past few months Melissa's father received an anonymous phone call telling him that autopsy X-rays had been withheld. The new ME searched and found the withheld X-rays, which clearly showed the child hadn't suffered a skull fracture.

Instead, the withheld X-rays showed the child's head was shaped like a lightbulb, since apparently the pressure within his skull caused by the old injury had been causing his skull to grow in an odd shape.

Melissa is still in prison, but she has a hearing scheduled for December in front of the trial judge to ask for a new trial.

Even when improprieties emerge, getting a conviction reversed in the USA is not an easy feat!

There's a video on this page about Melissa's forced confession. She obviously should have asked for a lawyer, or tried walking away from her police tormentors, but as with many young people, she wasn't sophisticated enough to know her rights:

Is a caregiver in prison for a murder that never happened?

By ERIN MORIARTY CBS NEWS July 16, 2015

[ ]
This case began in January 2009, when Melissa Calusinski, just 22 at the time, was charged with first-degree murder of 16-month-old toddler Ben Kingan. The charge of murder followed a finding by the pathologist Dr. Eupil Choi that the toddler had a skull fracture that occurred the day of his death. Melissa also confessed to assaulting the child after an unrelenting nine-hour interrogation.


In November, 2011, Melissa was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to 31 years in prison. Shortly afterwards, her father, convinced she was innocent, asked Dr. Rudd, the newly elected county coroner, to review her case. Dr. Rudd did, and what he discovered raised the first serious questions about Melissa's conviction.

Dr. Rudd found evidence of an earlier brain injury that the pathologist at autopsy, Dr. Choi, overlooked. After being confronted with the discrepancy, Dr. Choi admitted in an affidavit that he made an error, but later said it would not have changed his testimony at trial.

And then last month, a true bombshell! An anonymous caller told Melissa's father that X-rays existed that had never been seen at trial. Dr. Rudd asked his office to scour the files and to his shock, the X-rays were there.


Those images, taken at the child's autopsy more than six years ago and before Dr. Rudd became the county coroner, appear to show no skull fracture at all. Instead, according to Dr. Rudd, the "new" evidence confirms that Ben Kingan suffered a head injury weeks before Melissa came to work at the daycare center.

These X-rays, says Dr. Rudd, now make it impossible for him to be sure that the child's death was intentional. So, last week, he took the highly unusual step of changing the manner of Ben Kingan's death from "homicide" to "undetermined."

MORE:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-a-caregiver-in-prison-for-a-murder-that-never-happened/
 
I think there is a misunderstanding. The police document shows only that a cell phone (Nokia brand, with ID numbers) and "TIM" (SIM?) card was taken by the police from Lumumba. I don't believe this was from a search of Lumumba's flat, but was given to the police by Lumumba at the request of the police. He signed at the lower left of the form.

No other items are listed on the form.

The Italian procedural law referenced, CPP Article 354, allows the search and seizure of items from persons caught "in flagrante delicto" or attempting to escape, or ordered into precautionary detention. This law allows for a search of the person's body and/or premises.

ETA: One might think if police had really believed Amanda's coerced false statement that they would have seized knives from Lumumba's flat to look for a murder weapon. But they apparently were only interested in his phone, while they seized two knives, IIRC, one the random kitchen knife, from Raffaele's apartment. Incompetence or working toward the goal of generating certain false "evidence"?


I don't think we'll ever know when the police actually started going thru Lumumba's phone records, but it may have started before they seized his phone (on or about Nov 6th).

After all, the police had Amanda's phone records as early as Nov 3rd, so the police would have known she had been in contact with Lumumba, so the police may have already reviewed Lumumba's calls before Nov 6th?

Since Stefanoni testified that they had found 5 African hairs in Meredith's bedroom, and since Lumumba was African, he had to be on their radars fairly early on.

La Stampa reported on Nov 10th that the police had proof Lumumba was lying based upon his cell-tower pings, so when did the police start investigating Lumumba's whereabouts thru cell-tower pings if they told La Stampa (likely on or around Nov 9th), that based upon cell-tower pings, Lumumba was lying?

As they did with Amanda, the police would need to go out into the field and walk around with equipment to verify where each relevant cell-tower's signal could be detected, and that sounds like it could take several days to do PROPERLY. Of course, as we now know about police claims concerning Amanda's whereabouts based upon cell-tower pings, the Italian police were incompetent in determining that.

Of course, the police may have made up the cell-tower evidence out of whole cloth on Nov 9th under the belief that Lumumba was guilty, and that the evidence would eventually corroborate Lumumba's guilt?

The UK Guardian's story about the La Stampa story:

Sunday 11 November 2007

La Stampa reported yesterday [Nov 10th] that traces made of Lumumba's mobile phone placed him at 8.38pm in an area that does not cover his bar, but does include Kercher's house.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/nov/12/italy.ukcrime
 
I'm busy as the one armed paper hanger so only scanning here but have a few questions.

Were they tapping 80+ people and 5 places before the fifth?
Why would the police suppress the downstairs info to help Rudi when they produced so much info upstairs to convict him?

RW the shoe print on wet semen picture I haven't looked at but have no doubt you are correct still leaves me wondering why Guede was so adamant in his Skype that the semen wasn't his. Why he didn't make up a story to cover that as he did with most everything else remains unanswered for me.

Has Vixen come up with one other case where the murder knife tested negative for blood and yet produced the DNA of the victim? I must add that the knife can't have been the victims and the DNA must be found on the blade not just the handle. To me this is much stronger evidence that the kids weren't involved than history or motive.

Off for the dog walk and another day of painting to beat the carpet guys. :)

ETA: IIRC Patrick's places weren't searched and non of his knives were tested from either location and his wife was allowed to remain in their place

From the response I posted before, the answer in testimony was 78 users. A user may have had more than one phone and I assume would add to the count of the number of taps for each. It would be interesting to get an idea from the rest of the testimony if there is any more detail about who was listened to. There were clearly a lot.

"ANSWER – They are pretty much, if I’m not mistaken 83 wiretaps, which are called ‘Rit’, so any wiretap corresponds to a user or to an environment, 83, 5 of them are environmental, of those, three in prison, one in the police station and the other was at Lumumba’s Pub"

ETA: What is the weird symbol in the title bar? I'm sure I didn't put it there. Or maybe I did unwittingly.
 
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I'm busy as the one armed paper hanger so only scanning here but have a few questions.

Were they tapping 80+ people and 5 places before the fifth?

Why would the police suppress the downstairs info to help Rudi when they produced so much info upstairs to convict him?

RW the shoe print on wet semen picture I haven't looked at but have no doubt you are correct still leaves me wondering why Guede was so adamant in his Skype that the semen wasn't his. Why he didn't make up a story to cover that as he did with most everything else remains unanswered for me.

Has Vixen come up with one other case where the murder knife tested negative for blood and yet produced the DNA of the victim? I must add that the knife can't have been the victims and the DNA must be found on the blade not just the handle. To me this is much stronger evidence that the kids weren't involved than history or motive.

Off for the dog walk and another day of painting to beat the carpet guys. :)

ETA: IIRC Patrick's places weren't searched and non of his knives were tested from either location and his wife was allowed to remain in their place
The NZ police got a conviction for Mark Lundy. In a very bloody murder, they found his wife's brain on his shirt but no blood.
This detail didn't fool the jury, found guilty twice. :(
 
The NZ police got a conviction for Mark Lundy. In a very bloody murder, they found his wife's brain on his shirt but no blood.
This detail didn't fool the jury, found guilty twice. :(


The Lundy case seems rather sketchy to use as proof that body cells can be found without blood cells being present:


Lundy murders
[ ]
In October 2013 the Privy Council unanimously allowed his appeal, quashed the convictions and ordered a re-trial.[4]

[ ]
Prosecution case


The prosecution's case was also based on a speck of body tissue found on one of Lundy's polo shirts; the shirt was found along with other clothes and miscellaneous items on the back seat of his car. Although New Zealand pathologists could not identify it as Christine's brain tissue, a pathologist from Texas did. The prosecution argued the only way this brain tissue could have got on the shirt was if Lundy himself was the murderer. Later reports and tests by other experts cast doubt upon the identification of the material as brain tissue.[15]

Defence case

The defence called three witnesses including Lundy himself, who emphatically denied killing his wife and daughter. A key defence argument was that Lundy could not possibly have made the round trip from Wellington to Palmerston North and back in three hours,[18] pointing out that Lundy's phone records prove that his phone was in Petone at 5:43 pm and at 8:48 pm.

Regarding the brain tissue evidence, the defence noted that there was blood and tissue splattered everywhere including on the walls, the bed and the floor around the bodies but "his car, glasses, wedding ring, shoes and other clothes were all tested for blood or other tissue and absolutely nothing was found";[14] they said contamination could account for the tissue found on Lundy's shirt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lundy_murders


Lundy was recently re-tried and again found guilty, but the forensics doesn't seem to have been controlling in the jurors' minds:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11426661
 
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From the response I posted before, the answer in testimony was 78 users. A user may have had more than one phone and I assume would add to the count of the number of taps for each. It would be interesting to get an idea from the rest of the testimony if there is any more detail about who was listened to. There were clearly a lot.

"ANSWER – They are pretty much, if I’m not mistaken 83 wiretaps, which are called ‘Rit’, so any wiretap corresponds to a user or to an environment, 83, 5 of them are environmental, of those, three in prison, one in the police station and the other was at Lumumba’s Pub"

ETA: What is the weird symbol in the title bar? I'm sure I didn't put it there. Or maybe I did unwittingly.


It's a classic failure of the inquisitorial system that it is almost always heavily reliant on confessions and witness statements. It's a throwback to the days before forensic science and decent medico-legal standards. And it's incredibly prone to errors, incompetence and malpractice.

It seems that when a serious crime is committed in Italy, almost the first instinct of the investigators is to start tapping phones of anyone with the faintest link to the victim. By doing so, they hope to catch the perpetrator discussing his/her actions, or someone else discussing the crime (either because that person was an eyewitness, or because that person talked with the perpetrator about it). And once they've got that sort of evidence, well: case closed! No need for that sciencey forensics stuff or messy autopsies/wound analysis. We have a tape recording of the perpetrator confessing, or a witness describing exactly who did what to whom, or a person stating that Mr X did it. Guilty!

The industrial level of phone tapping going on in Italy (and I think the Kercher case was totally in line with "standard practice") is astonishing and deeply worrying from both a civil-liberties and justice point of view. Perhaps the ECHR will address this factor as it applied to this case. Certainly, the ECHR should have an ongoing interest in this, as the right to privacy is a fundamental tenet of the European Convention on Human Rights. What needs to happen, of course, is proper legislation from the muppets in the Italian government, in order to prosecute those who order and implement unlawful phone taps, and to make it very clear what the limitations are on the use of phone tap evidence (in England/Wales, for example, such evidence cannot be used in court - it can only be used to direct an investigation).
 
The Lundy case seems rather sketchy to use as proof that body cells can be found without blood cells being present:




Lundy was recently re-tried and again found guilty, but the forensics doesn't seem to have been controlling in the jurors' minds:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11426661
No they were not. The jury ignored all evidence, because there was none. I was suggesting the fatal flaw in the forensics was the notion brain with no blood and no neurons is likely. The material was undoubtedly spinal tissue from cooking.
Mark Lundy is innocent just like Amanda and co. A shameful case for New Zealand, but most people think he is guilty, so his prospects are bleak. One more chance at appeal, then he will be forgotten.
 
No they were not. The jury ignored all evidence, because there was none. I was suggesting the fatal flaw in the forensics was the notion brain with no blood and no neurons is likely. The material was undoubtedly spinal tissue from cooking.
Mark Lundy is innocent just like Amanda and co. A shameful case for New Zealand, but most people think he is guilty, so his prospects are bleak. One more chance at appeal, then he will be forgotten.


Thanks for clarifying. My quick review of the Lundy case likewise revealed glaring problems as to Lundy's guilt.

It seems like the 2nd jury was more interested in reading tea leaves by watching Lundy's reactions in court, than they were with the actual sketchy evidence.

Last year my own daughter, a fairly well educated nurse, shocked me by saying that she could tell Amanda was guilty by watching her reactions in interviews.

Where did I go wrong?
:)
 
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