Continuation Part 17: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

So all the police ever have to do is find someone with no alibi - say, they've spent the evening alone watching TV - and bingo! they've solved the crime!

What do you do if the police arrest your alibi and charge him with jointly committing the crime?

The Italian police have better and more important things to do with their time than try to frame two non-entities.

 

[Bill Williams]

First of all, it is important to realise the rape scence was carefully rearranged.

Mez' jeans were pulled off and yet not inside out, but arranged neatly. Objects were carefully arranged on the bed. The body moved by a sheet, police believe, so it could not be seen from the car park.

As I believe Mez was subjected to a prolonged false imprisonment by the three - police identified the mushroom as coming from a punnet in Raff's flat and Sophie confirmed there were no mushrooms in the meal they ate to watch the DVD 'The Notebook' - perhaps she was made to share in a meal she declined.

CCTV and mobile pings indicate Amanda arrived at the cottage almost the same time as Mez, a figure can be seen following her in, thought to be Rudy.

Kokomani came back from Albania to voluntarily testify to police he had seen Rudy, Raff and Amanda hiding behind the garbage bins outside the house as though waiting for someone, the night before. Rudy aggressively demanded his car. Koko got scared and threw olives and stuff at them as he tried to accelerate away. Amanda was waving a large kitchen knife. Koko knew Rudy from working together on a farm. He explained Amanda was cutting a birthday cake with it. He claimed Raff ran after him, trying to block his exit.

The dark car seen on the murder night could have been Raff's.

AIUI Raff and Amanda started having sex and wanted to force "vampire" Mez to join in. She was teased and hazed by the three in their drugged up aggression and fantasy.

After her death, the scene was staged to look like rape and the arms of her coat could have been pulled inside out, in the same way her other clothes were a mise en scene, together with the burglary.

They had all night.

Raff and Amanda ran to Plaza Grimana, where Curatolo did witness them.

No doubt they were on watch to see whether any of the neighbours had heard the dreadful scream, and the police were on their way.

This is the closest thing to a "theory of the crime" you have come up with, and for that you should be thanked. This has been asked for from you since you joined in Apr 2015.

Yet the attempt shows why any guilter-scenario ultimately fails. It relies on phantom evidence (most of what you claim wasn't even presented in court by any of the prosecutions) or bald-faced assertions with no supporting evidence.

"CCTV and mobile pings indicate Amanda arrived at the cottage almost the same time as Mez" - this is false and completely false. There is no such evidence which indicates this. If there was, it would have been used in court.

You also have them not turning the jeans inside out like geniuses, yet, "the arms of her coat could have been pulled inside out, in the same way her other clothes were a mise en scene, together with the burglary." - in short your assertions need to be one way when it suits you and the other way when it suits you. This is called confirmation bias.​

But you did give it a go.

 

[Bill Williams]

The Italian police have better and more important things to do with their time than try to frame two non-entities.

They do? Why didn't you say so to begin with?

 

[Grinder]

AIUI Raff and Amanda started having sex and wanted to force "vampire" Mez to join in. She was teased and hazed by the three in their drugged up aggression and fantasy.

After her death, the scene was staged to look like rape and the arms of her coat could have been pulled inside out, in the same way her other clothes were a mise en scene, together with the burglary.

They had all night.

Raff and Amanda ran to Plaza Grimana, where Curatolo did witness them.

No doubt they were on watch to see whether any of the neighbours had heard the dreadful scream, and the police were on their way.

Please dear gawd let the motivations come out.

Could you put some times to this fascinating scenario?

They were in the plaza from 9:30 to midnight. Nara heard the scream at 11:30 latest. Koko saw the tow truck which left at 11:15 and neither the driver of the truck nor the people in the car heard or saw anything.

Meredith's phones made calls or pings until about 10:13. Odd calls made just before 10. The same pathologist that agreed it could be more than one attacker said no food had moved to her duodenum.

 

[carbonjam72]

The Italian police have better and more important things to do with their time than try to frame two non-entities.

Yes, Mignini is out chasing the devil across the countryside, Napoleoni is busy harassing her Ex's lover, Zugarini while not terrorizing reporters is coaching the east german women's swim team, and Stefanoni is very busy falsifying lab reports. Its a wonder they have any spare time for 'crime solving' at all.

 

[RWVBWL]

The Italian police have better and more important things to do with their time than try to frame two non-entities.

Yes, Mignini is out chasing the devil across the countryside, Napoleoni is busy harassing her Ex's lover, Zugarini while not terrorizing reporters is coaching the east german women's swim team, and Stefanoni is very busy falsifying lab reports. Its a wonder they have any spare time for 'crime solving' at all.

Thank you for the laugh, Carbonjam72,
I'm 20 feet away from the Pacific Ocean,
LMAO!

 

[Vixen]

Yes, Mignini is out chasing the devil across the countryside, Napoleoni is busy harassing her Ex's lover, Zugarini while not terrorizing reporters is coaching the east german women's swim team, and Stefanoni is very busy falsifying lab reports. Its a wonder they have any spare time for 'crime solving' at all.

Calvin, theologian, believed we are "predestined"; you are either granted "grace" or you are not.

Martin Luther, the theologian, believed people ride either the beast of good, or the beast of evil and it is a choice.

I am not sure if the Roman Catholic church of Italy still believes in the concept of the Wicked One. However, it is the state religion, with Catholic symbolism in all public area s, including schools and courts. Thus, it is no great shock Mignini couched the Monster of Florence serial killer/killers in terms of anti-Christ "satanists", being a member of the RC establishment himself.

It's ridiculous, IMV, to label him "insane" for seeing the MOF murders as organised evil.

Likewise the perps in the Kercher case exercised their freewill and have never shown any remorse, apart from cod, in the case of Rudy.

My Norwegian friend a lecturer who goes to a language school in Norway during summer to teach Norwegian as a foreign language, told me the American students insisted on standing up and singing, "Star Spangled Banner" every morning, so people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[christianahannah]

Please dear gawd let the motivations come out.

Could you put some times to this fascinating scenario?

They were in the plaza from 9:30 to midnight. Nara heard the scream at 11:30 latest. Koko saw the tow truck which left at 11:15 and neither the driver of the truck nor the people in the car heard or saw anything.

Meredith's phones made calls or pings until about 10:13. Odd calls made just before 10. The same pathologist that agreed it could be more than one attacker said no food had moved to her duodenum.

I am sorry to interrupt this post but I was wondering if the 10:13 ping was the same location as the midnight ping on Meredith's phone? I know I have had this information before but right now can't remember if they were the same or different locations.

 

[Desert Fox]

So all the police ever have to do is find someone with no alibi - say, they've spent the evening alone watching TV - and bingo! they've solved the crime!

What do you do if the police arrest your alibi and charge him with jointly committing the crime?

Having an almost iron clad alibi did not help Russ Faria or David Camm.

 

[Antony]

The Italian police have better and more important things to do with their time than try to frame two non-entities.

This is what's known as arguing from incredulity. You can't believe it happened, so you don't see any need to look at the facts. The police wouldn't pursue an innocent person, so why bother with a trial?

Vixen, this exchange started with your assertion: "an innocent person ... has an alibi." In other words, someone who, for whatever reason, can't prove what they were doing at the time the crime was committed, doesn't have the benefit of the presumption of innocence. Have you ever heard of the expression "burden of proof"?

What were you doing on the evening of 1st November 2007?

 

[Kauffer]

One of the biggest cases in Perugia maybe ever. They had hit a dead end with Shaky and all others. I would think that the citizens would have been upset had the PLE not thrown everything into the investigation.

How many total detectives are there in P? The Rome detectives had nothing else to work on. How many cops were there for the press conference? Did ones that didn't work on the case get to be there?

The mother arriving was known and IIRC they heard on the phone taps. Maybe it bothered them but they had interviewed her everyday since the murder so no change in pattern except they didn't call her in. So the one time she is not brought in is a clear sign they were bringing her in.

Clearly she couldn't leave once arrested. I ask again what they would have done had the text message(s) been erased?

Btw, is it known here how many people were interviewed that night? It was pointed out by some that believe they had the plan to get her that night that 10 PM was still early for them to call her in so still early for them to be there.

But why was Raffaele brought in if not to get him to say something that would allow them to arrest Amanda? I know you don't buy Giobbi's "mathematical certainty" on the Amanda interrogation, but what could be a realistic alternative interpretation of Raffaele's interrogation? How could they not have immediately brought Amanda in after his statement had she not already been in the questura?

And then, on the other question, what would Edda Mellas have done after arriving in Perugia and finding out what they've put her daughter through over the previous 3 days, most of which she has been unaware of at that point? I suggest she is going to put a stop to the interrogations one way or another, either by telling the police Amanda is having a day off because she's tired and then getting some legal advice or else getting some advice straight away.

The police had nothing at all on Amanda that would have permitted them to do anything she didn't agree to do and since, under pressure to solve the crime and having already decided she was involved, it seems perfectly reasonable to suggest that breaking Amanda before her mother arrived was a deadline they fully embraced.

 

[Kauffer]

The problem with rape is proving it. Whilst it's highly unpleasant for a guy to be so accused, he has a high chance of being cleared, especially as it is often the word of one person against another.

Rudy is a thoroughly disgusting person, who not only sexually assaulted Mez, but tried to claim it was consensual. It is stomach turning.

There was also a blond hair down there.

I'd need to revise on the DNA. However, if the bra clasp was contaminated, then so was Mez' sweater, as it was collected the same time by the same filthy cops.

You can link to the hair evidence of course, which obviously must have figured strongly in the motivation reports, right?

The evidence collected in the apartment immediately after the murder is more than enough to convict Guede, not that it follows that while the mixed sample clasp was contaminated, the sweater with Guede's DNA was too. But in any case, it's not critical to the case. They already had the internal sample of Guede's DNA, among others, together with a considerable amount of additional physical evidence including his shoeprints in blood.

 

[Antony]

The problem with rape is proving it. Whilst it's highly unpleasant for a guy to be so accused, he has a high chance of being cleared, especially as it is often the word of one person against another.

Yes, but there's nothing so tiresome as proof needed when it's the murder of your flatmate. If you don't have an alibi, then you can't be innocent.

 

[Kauffer]

Amanda was told she was a suspect as soon as she confessed to witnessing the crime and leading the alleged assailant there. The witness statement interview was promptly halted.
As for the advice you should refuse to comment to police. Absolutely. If you are guilty.

An innocent person upholds the law and has an alibi.

That's not true. Why is she being given incriminating statements to sign without an attorney?

How do you know what Amanda was told? Where's the proof of it?

 

[Planigale]

I was addressing the forum.

I have said before I do not believe - zilch, zippo, diddly - anything Rudy says.

All three are champion liars.

Maybe the police were terse, they are not airline cabin staff, but I disbelieve Amanda's self-serving claim of being tortured and interrogated non-stop 53 hours by tag teams.

This is untrue. Can you post anything that is true?
Please quote any reference where Knox claimed she was interrogated non-stop for 53 hours.

 

[Diocletus]

My Norwegian friend a lecturer who goes to a language school in Norway during summer to teach Norwegian as a foreign language, told me the American students insisted on standing up and singing, "Star Spangled Banner" every morning, so people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

This story is ridiculous on many levels.

 

[Planigale]

First of all, it is important to realise the rape scence was carefully rearranged.

Mez' jeans were pulled off and yet not inside out, but arranged neatly. Objects were carefully arranged on the bed. The body moved by a sheet, police believe, so it could not be seen from the car park.

As I believe Mez was subjected to a prolonged false imprisonment by the three - police identified the mushroom as coming from a punnet in Raff's flat and Sophie confirmed there were no mushrooms in the meal they ate to watch the DVD 'The Notebook' - perhaps she was made to share in a meal she declined.

CCTV and mobile pings indicate Amanda arrived at the cottage almost the same time as Mez, a figure can be seen following her in, thought to be Rudy.

Kokomani came back from Albania to voluntarily testify to police he had seen Rudy, Raff and Amanda hiding behind the garbage bins outside the house as though waiting for someone, the night before. Rudy aggressively demanded his car. Koko got scared and threw olives and stuff at them as he tried to accelerate away. Amanda was waving a large kitchen knife. Koko knew Rudy from working together on a farm. He explained Amanda was cutting a birthday cake with it. Koko claimed Raff ran after him, trying to block his exit.

The dark car seen on the murder night could have been Raff's.

AIUI Raff and Amanda started having sex and wanted to force "vampire" Mez to join in. She was teased and hazed by the three in their drugged up aggression and fantasy.

After her death, the scene was staged to look like rape and the arms of her coat could have been pulled inside out, in the same way her other clothes were a mise en scene, together with the burglary.

They had all night.

Raff and Amanda ran to Plaza Grimana, where Curatolo did witness them.

No doubt they were on watch to see whether any of the neighbours had heard the dreadful scream, and the police were on their way.

Not true. Please give any reference to this other than your imagination.

 

[Planigale]

First of all, it is important to realise the rape scence was carefully rearranged.

Mez' jeans were pulled off and yet not inside out, but arranged neatly. Objects were carefully arranged on the bed. The body moved by a sheet, police believe, so it could not be seen from the car park.

As I believe Mez was subjected to a prolonged false imprisonment by the three - police identified the mushroom as coming from a punnet in Raff's flat and Sophie confirmed there were no mushrooms in the meal they ate to watch the DVD 'The Notebook' - perhaps she was made to share in a meal she declined.

CCTV and mobile pings indicate Amanda arrived at the cottage almost the same time as Mez, a figure can be seen following her in, thought to be Rudy.
Kokomani came back from Albania to voluntarily testify to police he had seen Rudy, Raff and Amanda hiding behind the garbage bins outside the house as though waiting for someone, the night before. Rudy aggressively demanded his car. Koko got scared and threw olives and stuff at them as he tried to accelerate away. Amanda was waving a large kitchen knife. Koko knew Rudy from working together on a farm. He explained Amanda was cutting a birthday cake with it. Koko claimed Raff ran after him, trying to block his exit.

The dark car seen on the murder night could have been Raff's.

AIUI Raff and Amanda started having sex and wanted to force "vampire" Mez to join in. She was teased and hazed by the three in their drugged up aggression and fantasy.

After her death, the scene was staged to look like rape and the arms of her coat could have been pulled inside out, in the same way her other clothes were a mise en scene, together with the burglary.

They had all night.

Raff and Amanda ran to Plaza Grimana, where Curatolo did witness them.

No doubt they were on watch to see whether any of the neighbours had heard the dreadful scream, and the police were on their way.

Not true. Please give any reference to this other than your imagination.

 

[Kauffer]

Or, if guilty, get help of Innocence Projects fast, learn how to refuse a lawyer, then claim breach of Art 6 Human Rights, blame an innocent person, claim false confession, claim confusion and amnesia, claim normal police witness taking is police brutality, claim the police hit you, and you'll be an innocent man, my son.

You obviously don't understand what makes for a valid waiver. Both Italian law and the convention cover this. On the whole, you need a lawyer to help you decide to refuse a lawyer.

Otherwise, we'd have a raft of cases like this one considered safe where the police claim a suspect was only a witness who said something spontaneously to make themselves a suspect, was offered a lawyer but refused one. They cannot do this.

This is the essence of a prominent guilters myth: Amanda shows up uninvited to the questura, is asked, since she's there, to go over a few details and almost immediately and without provocation, tells the police she was at the apartment and heard her boss raping and possibly killing Kercher - and we all agree the last part cannot be true. Only the truth of the first part is in dispute.

Why on earth would she do this? Your sociopathic, careful planning, thoroughly evil, calculating murderess, just walks into an interrogation as she's done many times before for long hours having previously given nothing away and gives it all up in a heartbeat, whilst under no pressure at all. How extraordinary! How utterly unbelievable!

 

[RWVBWL]

The problem with rape is proving it. Whilst it's highly unpleasant for a guy to be so accused, he has a high chance of being cleared, especially as it is often the word of one person against another.

Rudy is a thoroughly disgusting person, who not only sexually assaulted Mez, but tried to claim it was consensual. It is stomach turning.

There was also a blond hair down there.

I'd need to revise on the DNA. However, if the bra clasp was contaminated, then so was Mez' sweater, as it was collected the same time by the same filthy cops.

Vixen!
Glad to know that you are keepin' an open mind...


Question:
Did her sweater have the DNA of 4 different males on it?
I seem to recall that Meredith's bra clasp did have 4 other males DNA on it.
Or was that 3 other males DNA on it,
I forget sometimes?

If so,
I'd say that it might also, too,
be contaminated.

I know about the blonde hair, been arguin' about it for years before you were even here, maybe it's Rudy's buddy Hekuran's? If it was Amanda's or [SIZE="-10"]Raff[/SIZE]'s, heck it woulda been alllll over the news, as so would the identity of that supposed black hair found in Filomena's window sill, right? You do know that Barbie Nadeau wrote a few times in her book that Hekuran Kokmani was rumored to have been known as a police informant, right? Might Perugia LE been trying to protect him, and their own arse, also, if he was involved in Meredith's rape + murder, with his bro Rudy Guede?

What do you make of Rudy being busted with drugs a few days before Meredith's murder?

2 of Italy's largest, most respected newspapers reported this,
while Rudy Guede was hiding from authorities in a foreign country,
trying to escape the fact that only he left his DNA inside Meredith's body.


Hey Vixen,
you too seem to be well read about this case we discuss.
Got any info on what the results are of Rudy Guede's drug tests?
For surely ILE drug tested him immediately after he was returned from Germany, right?

And what about Meredith's cootchie?
Was anyone else's but Rudy Guede's DNA found down there?
If not, does that prove that only Rudy played around down there, after Meredith's pants were opened and most likely removed, as where her panties, socks and shoes. Or did a blonde hair dude do so also? An older, more hardcore dude, a dude who mighta been a police informant, who showed up in Court wearing, sunglasses and a hoody.
What was Koko hiding from, Italian Mafia or Albanian drugs enforcers?

Vixen,
I'm gonna paddle out and surf a few waves in a moment.
I'm glad that you are gonna keep an open mind about this case we discuss.
Peace, RW
LAsurfpix.com