Greeks vote to reject incumbants, austerity

[McHrozni]

We have an agreekment, apparently.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/12/news/economy/greece-bailout-europe-conditions/index.html

Tsipras now has three days to comply, or we'll see brimstone clouds again.

McHrozni

 

[NWO Sentryman]

We have an agreekment, apparently.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/12/news/economy/greece-bailout-europe-conditions/index.html

Tsipras now has three days to comply, or we'll see brimstone clouds again.

McHrozni

I have a feeling they will say **** this **** and reject the bailout terms this time (Syriza already lost their majority)

 

[McHrozni]

I have a feeling they will say **** this **** and reject the bailout terms this time (Syriza already lost their majority)

Possibly, although Tsipras apparently did kneel. He also went against reporters who didn't toe the party line on the referendum, so Greece could be in deep feces.

McHrozni

 

[ceptimus]

Even if they do accept the bail out, all they've done is kick the can down the road. We'll be doing this all over again a few months from now.

 

[Ts4EVER]

Well I guess the EU finally got what it wanted.

 

[GlennB]

Well I guess the EU finally got what it wanted.

A few comments:

Der Spiegel called the German terms for saving Greece “a catalogue of horrors”. Paul De Grauwe, a prominent Belgian economist, described the weekend that 'saved' the euro as the opening days of a new era: the “template of future governance of the eurozone being written in Brussels: submit to German rule or leave.”

Merkel's sluggish version of megalomania is being recognised finally. France and Italy weren't quite ready or able to challenge.

 

[bit_pattern]

Varoufakis' post-ministerial interview with New Statesman

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-a...opens-about-his-five-month-battle-save-greece

“This country must stop extending and pretending, we must stop taking on new loans pretending that we’ve solved the problem, when we haven’t; when we have made our debt even less sustainable on condition of further austerity that even further shrinks the economy; and shifts the burden further onto the have-nots, creating a humanitarian crisis.”

I wonder if even the haters can disagree with this statement.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Good! Now Tsipras, Tsakalotos and the rest of the boys can all pile into the little clown car and go tell it to the Greek people.

Now it's time for "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Grexit * But Were Afraid to Ask". Coming soon to theatres...

 

[Puppycow]

Looks like they finally reached a deal that will keep Greece in the euro after all:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-from-predator-to-prey-at-euro-torture-summit

Basically Tsipras capitulated to all significant demands.

I suspect that a lot of economic damage was done by the brinksmanship however.
And trying to "drive a hard bargain" with creditors actually made things worse for Greece, not better.

 

[Oystein]

A few comments:

Der Spiegel called the German terms for saving Greece “a catalogue of horrors”. Paul De Grauwe, a prominent Belgian economist, described the weekend that 'saved' the euro as the opening days of a new era: the “template of future governance of the eurozone being written in Brussels: submit to German rule or leave.”

Merkel's sluggish version of megalomania is being recognised finally. France and Italy weren't quite ready or able to challenge.

Schäuble's ideas were not adopted eventually - the real big stick, and the full horror, did not descend on Greece.
I guess that was somewhat ofa good-cop (Merkel) - bad-cop (Schäuble) game.

Merkel was asked earlier today at a press conference what she thought of comparisons with the Versailles treaty / gagging. She replied she doesn't like to comment on historical comparisons, especially those she did not make herself. My comment: Germany 1920 would have loved to get a peace treaty which mandated that the victors lend here another RM 80,000,000,000 on top of the RM 320,000,000,000 already given, and plenty of time to rebuild.

Another journalist asked where the hand writing of the Greek government was in the compromise reached last night. Merkel replied: Well, first of all, in the amount of money they need from the Europeans... (subdued laughter around)

 

[Oystein]

Looks like they finally reached a deal that will keep Greece in the euro after all a little longer:
...

FTFY

 

[aleCcowaN]

I'm afraid the only legislation that matters, the end of all the anti-liberal monopolies -union discretion, corporativism, economical canonries, professional sinecures, public monopolies- won't pass.

 

[bit_pattern]

Varoufakis audio interview, just aired a few minute ago in Australia

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/pgJE6gZygG?play=true

 

[Puppycow]

Tsipras Has Vandalized Greece

What has Alexis Tsipras achieved for the Greek people?

Monday morning, after 14 hours of talks among the euro area's finance ministers and an additional 17 hours among the group's leaders, the Greek prime minister came away with a much worse deal than the one he just persuaded Greek voters to reject. Now he must sell it to his parliament and people.

To be clear, for all the previous overheated talk of Greece's "humiliation" by the euro area countries that were bailing it out, this deal is indeed humiliating for Tsipras and Greece. The decision to set up a fund into which the country has to place 50 billion euros ($55 billion) worth of assets for privatization is the kind of thing that courts do to bankrupt companies ruled no longer competent to manage their own recovery.

The demand that Greece's parliament must, within three days, legislate for measures the government has in the past described as "criminal" and "terrorist" only underscores the degree to which Greece's economic sovereignty has been suspended.

. . .

The tragedy seems to be that this was all unnecessary. The economy had finally returned to growth last year. It would have taken some years to get back to where they were before the crisis but things had been going in the right direction again:

Times were still very tough for Greece in 2014. In April of that year, however, the country returned to international bond markets for the first time in four years, selling 3 billion euros worth of five-year securities at an interest rate of 4.95 percent. Unemployment, having hit a high of 27.5 percent in 2013, was falling. By April 2015, the latest available figure, the jobless rate was 25.6 percent.

Economic growth had also returned to positive territory, hitting 1.7 percent in the fourth quarter, a rate substantially higher than the 0.9 percent euro area average, according to Eurostat.

As you can see, money had been flowing back into the country in 2013 and 2014. Things were clearly not great, but they were starting to recover. GDP growth was positive and the unemployment rate was beginning to come down.

This progress all reversed when Tsipras started his game of brinksmanship with the creditors. Things went from bad but starting to mend to much, much worse.

 

[Ts4EVER]

I'm afraid the only legislation that matters, the end of all the anti-liberal monopolies -union discretion, corporativism, economical canonries, professional sinecures, public monopolies- won't pass.

And they say the left is utopian...

 

[aleCcowaN]

And they say the left is utopian...

...what may mean about anything.

Now Don Pacifico is being reminded everywhere ...

 

[aleCcowaN]

The kind of graphics where who is owning the zero is the owner of the storytelling.

I hope you won't mind me taking the chance to comment on how scepticism and numeracy should work together.

I we're lucky enough, one or two participants won't read this -why should they- and they'll add on top of that graphic: "you see! you see! they got a lot of money and they spent it all!"

 

[Childlike Empress]

Varoufakis' post-ministerial interview with New Statesman.

From the transcript:

Harry Lambert: So how are you feeling?

Yanis Varoufakis: I’m feeling on top of the world – I no longer have to live through this hectic timetable, which was absolutely inhuman, just unbelievable. I was on 2 hours sleep every day for five months. … I’m also relieved I don’t have to sustain any longer this incredible pressure to negotiate for a position I find difficult to defend, even if I managed to force the other side to acquiesce, if you know what I mean.

HL: What was it like? Did you like any aspect of it?

YV: Oh well a lot of it. But the inside information one gets… to have your worst fears confirmed … To have “the powers that be” speak to you directly, and it be as you feared – the situation was worse than you imagined! So that was fun, to have the front row seat.

HL: What are you referring to?

YV: The complete lack of any democratic scruples, on behalf of the supposed defenders of Europe’s democracy. The quite clear understanding on the other side that we are on the same page analytically – of course it will never come out at present. [And yet] To have very powerful figures look at you in the eye and say “You’re right in what you’re saying, but we’re going to crunch you anyway.” [...]

If nothing else he sure helped to expose the mafia methods of those "institutions" for everybody plain to see.

 

[Childlike Empress]

There's something just not feeling right about this interview. Is this still implemented game theory or do they really not have a plan b more sophisticated than "4-5 people" thinking about "Grexit" on occasion? If it's the latter, I sure agree with Alec on the clown car remark. I guess Wednesday in the Greek parliament will be the next clue.

 

[dudalb]

Possibly, although Tsipras apparently did kneel. He also went against reporters who didn't toe the party line on the referendum, so Greece could be in deep feces.

McHrozni

Only question is how deep the feces will be.

I think a couple of people here who think that a Greek Exit would be a wonderful thing for Greece are going to be in for a shock if and when it happens.