Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vixen said:
It's for the defense to put this forward as a defence. They don't of course, as it likely means a longer sentence, not less. I read somewhere that 33.3% of all prison inmates are sociopathic.
Click to expand...


You do know, don't you, that the highest criminal court in Italy recently threw out the whole case? That the defence "won"?
 
bagels said:
They got a black criminal to leave all the primary evidence. The only matchable prints. The only DNA on the body. It was always a possibility he would take all the blame. You find this surprising? Rudy had the chance to spill the beans on AK and RS but made up obviously false stories instead. In some ways you have to commend them for pulling off such a brilliant crime. Every white killer in prison would have loved to have a shifty criminal like Rudy come rape their victim's corpse and walk around in their blood before the crime scene unit shows up.
Click to expand...

That is actually a possibility that I've never thought of before. The crime happened exactly the way the prosecution claims except it happens before Rudy arrives (for his date with Meredith). Rudy, by pure coincidence, sees the front door open and enters just as Raf has finished doing the clean up in the death room and bumps into Rudy in the dark so Rudy's description of him is confused. Rudy comes in, in an intoxicated state, and stumbles around and finally after using the toilet goes into Meredith's room. She is covered by the duvet so he doesn't know she is dying. He molests her as she is dying while touching different things in the room. He hears a female voice outside and people making noise downstairs. Finally, he hears Meredith's dying breaths and removes the duvet to see her upper body covered with blood. Horrified and panicked, Rudy at first tries to stop the bleeding with towels and then realizes that it is hopeless. He cleans himself the best he can and leaves. After he leaves Amanda and Raf come back and stage the break-in. This way Rudy's evidence is left in the death room but it had already been cleaned by Amanda and Raf before Rudy arrived. Later, Rudy has a nightmare about Meredith screaming and he incorporates that into his story.

This way Rudy is guilty of molestation but not of murder. His memory is hazy due to his intoxication so his different versions aren't really lies.
 
bagels said:
They got a black criminal to leave all the primary evidence. The only matchable prints. The only DNA on the body. It was always a possibility he would take all the blame. You find this surprising? Rudy had the chance to spill the beans on AK and RS but made up obviously false stories instead. In some ways you have to commend them for pulling off such a brilliant crime. Every white killer in prison would have loved to have a shifty criminal like Rudy come rape their victim's corpse and walk around in their blood before the crime scene unit shows up.
Click to expand...

If Rudy can lie so easily to Kokomani and to Giacomo Benedetti, I doubt we can give much weight to his various utterances. Co-criminals don't grass on each other, for obvious reasons.
 
Bill Williams said:
But the point is, none of it would change the big ticket items. They are innocent, which is obvious and has to be said even if some try the strawman argument that this is cheering for the hometeam.

Shooting the piano player doesn't change the notes on the sheet music.
Click to expand...

My remark about your cheer-leading language involving the use of innocents referred to the times before the last verdict overturning the guilty verdict. As in "the police went after the two innocents." which if they were known to be innocent would mean they were framed. So your use of the term said much more than you thought they were innocent.

Since you didn't pay attention until after Hellmann, your opinion of early biases is not fully informed.

I am interested in more than whether they were found guilty or not guilty. If you think the recordings wouldn't change anything now, I think you are way, way off base. For me it would validate my first thoughts on the case about the "buckled remark" (go to my first ten posts if you doubt me) and it would undermine the most ardent PGP.

I think it would change the way many in world view "confessions" and could be a part of changing justice worldwide. I would love to see Vogt and Barbie respond.

Curious Bill what you'd be saying right now if the ISC had sent the case back or even more so verified the conviction? Would you acknowledge that those early PGP were prescient?

So some percentage of people out there still think she is guilty (bigger than you think) and the recording would change all that. The not guilty verdict will always be suspect to many besides Vixen, PG, PQ, et al.
 
Vixen said:
If Rudy can lie so easily to Kokomani and to Giacomo Benedetti, I doubt we can give much weight to his various utterances. Co-criminals don't grass on each other, for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...


Mignini stated clearly that he knew Guede had committed the attack and murder all by himself, and that he (Mignini) was only pursuing Knox and Sollecito because he personally disliked them. I know this for a fact because Mignini told some friends who told some other people who told me.

And there's continuous CCTV footage of the only entrance to Sollecito's apartment from the street, which proves that both Sollecito and Knox entered the apartment before 7pm on the night of the murder, and neither of them left before 9.30am on the morning after the murder.
 
Grinder said:
No it wasn't freezing cold. It was in the mid fifties F.
Click to expand...


No it was literally freezing cold. Below 0C. I don't need evidence to assert that, of course ;)

Oh and did you know that on that early afternoon, Guede actually turned up outside the cottage wearing a huge parka and sunglasses, and told a couple of the police officers that he - and he alone - had murdered Kercher. He invited them to arrest him, but they went off to get the paperwork and he got bored and left. I know this to be a fact because I am sure I heard it once from a very good source.
 
Grinder said:
My remark about your cheer-leading language involving the use of innocents referred to the times before the last verdict overturning the guilty verdict. As in "the police went after the two innocents." which if they were known to be innocent would mean they were framed. So your use of the term said much more than you thought they were innocent.

Since you didn't pay attention until after Hellmann, your opinion of early biases is not fully informed.

I am interested in more than whether they were found guilty or not guilty. If you think the recordings wouldn't change anything now, I think you are way, way off base. For me it would validate my first thoughts on the case about the "buckled remark" (go to my first ten posts if you doubt me) and it would undermine the most ardent PGP.

I think it would change the way many in world view "confessions" and could be a part of changing justice worldwide. I would love to see Vogt and Barbie respond.

Curious Bill what you'd be saying right now if the ISC had sent the case back or even more so verified the conviction? Would you acknowledge that those early PGP were prescient?
So some percentage of people out there still think she is guilty (bigger than you think) and the recording would change all that. The not guilty verdict will always be suspect to many besides Vixen, PG, PQ, et al.
Click to expand...

Fortunately the rules of this space-time continuum apply. For me, my opinion only, it is the height of confirmation bias to concede that my remarks were right (ie. "the innocents" were confirmed as such on March 27) and then someone wants to remove the thread into some hypothetical. As if the hypothetical either proves, or even informs the points being made. It betrays some unknown (to me) confirmation bias that referring to them as innocent at ANY point in time, then having that opinion confirmed, is referred to as "cheerleading". There is some unknown bias to keep wanting to minimize people's opinions with weasel words, even when they turn out to be right!

The real poser is that you, too, believe them to be innocent. You've said you figured this out based on early reports on what you claim are "more fully informed" opinions, and independent of the FOA who garner criticism, ironically for coming to the same conclusion, but perhaps with "less fully informed" opinions!! My word. That's a real poser. You'd think it would garner some praise to reach the right conclusion, while less informed!!!!

Grinder - let's put this to bed. By my count this is the third time we've been through this. (Strangely, I have always been agnostic as to whether or not they were "framed", and please, please, please please let's not get the dictionary out!)

I will continue this in PM and nowhere else.
 
Last edited:
LondonJohn said:
Mignini stated clearly that he knew Guede had committed the attack and murder all by himself, and that he (Mignini) was only pursuing Knox and Sollecito because he personally disliked them. I know this for a fact because Mignini told some friends who told some other people who told me.

And there's continuous CCTV footage of the only entrance to Sollecito's apartment from the street, which proves that both Sollecito and Knox entered the apartment before 7pm on the night of the murder, and neither of them left before 9.30am on the morning after the murder.
Click to expand...

I like your style LJ!

Coincidentally, I found Candace Dempsey's interview with Andrew Gumbel earlier, where he mentions the CCTV:

"In Italy, the prosecution decides what to investigate. What are some loose threads they didn’t tie up?

They claimed Amanda and Raffaele left his apartment on the night of the murder. There were surveillance cameras between the two houses. The family asked to see the footage on those cameras and the prosecution didn’t want to go there. They never did have the footage released."

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2012/09/26/raffaele-sollecito-i-spent-that-night-with-amanda-knox/
 
Vixen said:
If Rudy can lie so easily to Kokomani and to Giacomo Benedetti, I doubt we can give much weight to his various utterances. Co-criminals don't grass on each other, for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

..so you'd agree then that Nencini using Guede's preposterous rent money story was foolhardy?
 
LondonJohn said:
He truly is, and his book on this case is preposterous, sensationalist and plain wrong.

What's also rather amusing is the number of pro-guilt commentators who believe that this is the same person who's a highly respected mathematician and science author, who wrote an excellent biography of Bletchley Park codebreaker Alan Turing. (Hint to morons: they are two entirely different people sharing the name Andrew Hodges. The one who wrote the Kercher book is a weird charlatan who has zero respect in the publishing industry or in academic circles)
Click to expand...

Indeed - this is the real Andrew Hodges, or rather the proper one. And he's British!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Hodges

Cardiol over at TJMK was waxing lyrical, recently, about the nutter with the same name and made the mistake you point out.
 
LondonJohn said:
He truly is, and his book on this case is preposterous, sensationalist and plain wrong.

What's also rather amusing is the number of pro-guilt commentators who believe that this is the same person who's a highly respected mathematician and science author, who wrote an excellent biography of Bletchley Park codebreaker Alan Turing. (Hint to morons: they are two entirely different people sharing the name Andrew Hodges. The one who wrote the Kercher book is a weird charlatan who has zero respect in the publishing industry or in academic circles)
Click to expand...

Kauffer said:
Indeed - this is the real Andrew Hodges, or rather the proper one. And he's British!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Hodges

Cardiol over at TJMK was waxing lyrical, recently, about the nutter with the same name and made the mistake you point out.
Click to expand...

You are both entirely wrong. Andrew Hodges is a Canadian funeral director, with a well respected funeral home to his credit.
 
Bill Williams said:
You are both entirely wrong. Andrew Hodges is a Canadian funeral director, with a well respected funeral home to his credit.
Click to expand...


Careful now: certain (low-intelligence) people have enough trouble understanding that there are two public figures in the world named Andrew Hodges - the thought that there may be as many as three might make their heads explode!
 
Vixen said:
Rent money went missing, so of course he dealt with it.
Click to expand...


But Nencini totally ignored this: Guede told a Catholic priest who was sitting across the centre aisle from him on his train to Germany that he (Guede) wanted to give the priest a large sum of Euro bank notes. Guede said that he was worried about getting caught with the money on him, since he'd stolen it from a house where he'd murdered a woman all on his own. The priest refused to take the money, and reported the incident to the authorities when he got off the train - but the Italian police and PM buried the report. What do you make of that?
 
acbytesla said:
LMAO. What evidence? Please, what evidence? Saying things doesn't make it so Vixen. It takes more than hot air. Give me some real evidence that proves their guilt and I'll bring the rope.

It doesn't exist. What you have are cops saying there were multiple perps involved or that the burglary was staged or the bath mat print belonged to Raffaele. But they sure as hell didn't come close to proving any of those things. In fact the evidence is incredibly equivocal. I'm of the show me school.

I also think it is dumbest idea imaginable that Raffaele would just join in and help a girl murder her roommate. Why? For the sex? This kid is a very smart computer engineer. He thinks through everything. No way in hell.
Click to expand...


He was turned on by the idea of putting his extreme manga into practice. Yes, for the sex.

Remember, Mignini argued this to Matteini.
 
Vixen said:
He was turned on by the idea of putting his extreme manga into practice. Yes, for the sex.

Remember, Mignini argued this to Matteini.
Click to expand...


But Mignini also argued to Matteini that he'd been to visit the shrine at Medjugorje, and had received communication from a higher authority that Guede alone had committed the attack and murder. Funny how Matteini chose to disregard this in her ruling.
 
Vixen said:
Rent money went missing, so of course he dealt with it.
Click to expand...

Amanda had been acquitted of that crime. Nencini expressly used Guede's loony account as the basis for hostility between Kercher and Amanda actually on the night of the murder.

Since you stated that nothing Guede said was reliable, then you must think Nencini wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom