Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
For all of that, IIRC a representative of the American Embassy in Italy visited Amanda in prison weekly (_?). I am sure he would have dealt with any claims of brutality by the Italians.
Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito
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For all of that, IIRC a representative of the American Embassy in Italy visited Amanda in prison weekly (_?). I am sure he would have dealt with any claims of brutality by the Italians.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I do not think it is true Italians have an uneasy relationship with Americans. There is a massive Italian-American population in New York, and just outside the border, in Toronto, we have the largest Italian population in the world outside of Italy, of some +500K (IIRC from the tour guide while I was there).
It was American Italians who brought us Pizza Hut/House and pizza pollo (my Italian-Sicilian friend, Guiseppe, told me they never put chicken on pizza where he came from).
In any case Edda is German born, with an extensive family in the Old Country. Italy had a close relationship with Germany as an Axis member.
I don't buy the idea the Italian cops didn't like Amanda's Americanism, especially as Edda like the Italians is/was Roman Catholic and Amanda went to a Jesuit (Catholic) school.
There is no warranted reason to suppose anti -Americanism in the part of the Italian cops.
Methos,
Thanks for pointing out the source of the quote. Is the decision to deny Amanda house arrest publicly available? Do we know if the decision actually states or clearly implies that the arrest was planned so as to take place before Amanda's mom arrived? Certainly the ECHR would be able to obtain it and evaluate the significance with respect to the Convention. This would be a clear sign that the official misconduct was planned and was actually accepted by a judicial official, Magistrate Matteini.
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What calendar year did your research begin?
Methos
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That's the problem. This document is one of those that are still missing
Grinder
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That's the problem. This document is one of those that are still missing
As I said above, I did a search of the time period for any mention of the quote in question or any paraphrase but found nothing. I would think many a reporter would pick up on this.
It is possible that Amanda's account written 5 years after was not from her memory alone but Frank's account could have been a memory enhancer for Amanda or for her co-writer.
What exact document is missing because I thought one was linked that explained why the three (PL, AK & RS) couldn't be released.
ETA - isn't this it? https://matteinireport.wordpress.com/the-matteini-report/
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zotz
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"America also defeated Italy in WWII, but we also defeated Germany and Japan in WWII, but I don’t sense the same anti-American hostility from those other former Axis powers today?"
Resentment against the US is continent wide. In the current issue of Der Spiegel there is an article that claims "The German-American friendship no longer exists."
Resentment against the US is continent wide. In the current issue of Der Spiegel there is an article that claims "The German-American friendship no longer exists."
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"Amanda's account written 5 years after was not from her memory alone"
This is possible, but does not seem likely.
Amanda was unquestionably at the hearing.
She heard what the judge said.
She would be keen for any words that mentioned her mother.
Anything she did not undrerstand her lawyer would have explained to her.
How likely is it that she would forget an event that led to her spending a year in solitary confinement?
The result of that hearing was that she was in Solitary for a year before they got around to the trial.
How can you "forget" that?
The fact that we do not have the official court documents does not mean anything, considering the people we are dealing with.
What justification can anyone have for disputing Amandas first hand account of the event, unless you are Vixon.
Methos
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No that is a different decision concerning the preventive detention.
There were:
- Matteini's confirmation of the arrest aka "Matteini Report",
- court of review (Ricciarelli) Nov 30th, 2007
- Cassazione April 2008
What we are looking for is the next decision. After Cassazione had confirmed, that the arrests were ok, the lawyers asked to put Amanda Knox under house arrest instead of keeping her in prison. This was denied in May 2008 and Frank reported about it in June. It is this "motivation" the quote allegedly is from.
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Grinder
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None of the Filomena interviews are in a form I can read or translate without lots of work retyping. My recollection is that she left in the afternoon for a birthday party that stretched into the evening and that she was with not only her boyfriend into the night and may have gone out after the party to a public place or that it was so late that they just went home.
This idea that she "had the same alibi" put out by an PIP/FOA here repeatedly never has been shown to be true. Having said that the incompetent PLE/ILE never took her DNA or reference foot prints. Unbelievable.
If one of our Italian readers could look at the interviews with Filomena and give an overview that would be appreciated.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/
This idea that she "had the same alibi" put out by an PIP/FOA here repeatedly never has been shown to be true. Having said that the incompetent PLE/ILE never took her DNA or reference foot prints. Unbelievable.
If one of our Italian readers could look at the interviews with Filomena and give an overview that would be appreciated.
http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/witness-depositions/
There is a misunderstanding.
The Italian procedural laws allow for house arrest rather than imprisonment for persons awaiting trial under certain circumstances. Amanda and her defense team appealed for such house arrest, some time after the Nov. 8/9 hearing and confirmation of the Nov. 6 arrest/detention. This appeal was turned down by Magistrate Matteini apparently in May, and there was a written document issued by Matteini explaining the decision. It is that document which would contain the reference to the arrest being motivated by the anticipated arrival Amanda's mother, it that comment was indeed committed to writing.
Grinder
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Without doubting you, I'm even more baffled. If this was that much later, the judge should have been aware of the US FOA "railroad job from hell" meme and I believe they were already saying they were arrested that night because mama was on the way. The railroad meme started no later than April 11th.
ETA - Numbers thanks as well
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Methos
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Presumably some Germans are still sore about Normandy Beach. So am I, as it happens.
Grinder
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Is that the date the first 48hours episode about the case aired?
Some CBS show IIRC
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I did not state whether I believed or disbelieved it. It is a mundane objective statement of fact that this is what Rudy claimed in his various statements to the police and prosecutors.
Vixen sounds like she is completely enamored with the idea of this fast and loose girl the TJMK and PMF have fed her. Most of this nonsense she is reciting sounds as though the research was done at the corner newspaper stand there in the UK.
The thought is never acknowledged how little recourse Amanda had over what was being said about her. The Italians were free to make her the villain they needed her to be to make their case plausible, and they did a fine job.
Just look at Vixen. After almost a decade she finds herself riveted by the notion of a woman so completely devoid of her humanity that she must speak out. It's rather sad someone needs this kind of distraction in their life. Or that it should come at the expense of her own humanity.
Bill Williams
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The motivation behind someone who wishes to pass on long-since discredited smear is not something I am competent to comment upon.
Just on the level of "evidence based", Vixen has made ludicrous claims. The one comment that should put these claims away forever is that nearly all of Vixen's claims in that post never even made it to court!!!!
This is perhaps the third time this thread has been around this evidence-less merry-go-round, last time the claim was made, in response, was that not everything makes it to court!!!!!
The response to that response last time was one of aghast. "You mean the prosecution gets to pick and choose what makes it to court, they can actually withhold evidence?" This should be of particular worry to the (former) guilters, given that the two have been completely exonerated! Vixen seems to be implying the possibility that Mignini, et al., booted the case because he did not bring the right evidence to court - or most certainly not enough of it!
The worldview of those posts is just very bizarre. I don't get it.
RWVBWL
Master Poster
Now I know,
from reading over a thousand of Vixen's posts here on The ISF,
that she truly believes the early newspaper reports of this horrible rape and murder we discuss.
So Vixen,
what do you make of this paragraph from a story in an Italian newspaper dated Nov. 7, 2007?
COLPO INFERTO DA UN UOMO - C'è di più. La profondità della ferita sul collo della vittima - sempre da quanto trapelato - porterebbe a escludere che ad uccidere la studentessa inglese sia stata Amanda Knox. Sarebbe dunque Lumumba Diya il principale sospettato dell'omicidio. Gli inquirenti avrebbero inoltre in mano elementi che confermerebbero la presenza nell'abitazione di Amanda al momento dell'omicidio e si attendono i risultati delle analisi scientifiche - ancora in corso in queste ore - per "collocare" la ragazza, che negli interrogatori ha negato di aver assistito alla scena, dicendo di aver sentito delle grida da un'altra stanza.
What's it say?:
Here's from Google translation:
Blow FROM A MAN - There's more. The depth of the wound on the neck of the victim - always from what leaked - would lead to exclude that killing the British student was Amanda Knox. It would therefore Lumumba Diya the main suspect in the murder. Investigators would also holding elements which would confirm the presence in the home of Amanda at the time of the murder and is awaiting the results of scientific analysis - still in progress at this time - to "sell" the girl, that interrogators denied having witnessed the scene, he said he heard screams from another room.
Link:
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/07_novembre_07/delitto_perugia_lumumba.shtml
Blow FROM A MAN?
SDL Translation also calls it this:
BLOW BY A MAN - there is more to it. The depth of the injury on the neck of the victim - always leaked - would lead to exclude that to kill the student english has been Amanda Knox.
Odd how PM Mignini
(as quoted in this Time magazine article dated Nov. 30, 2009,
written by none other than Nina Burleigh,
turned it into Amanda Knox taking a knife and saying this):
In final arguments, Perugia's public prosecutor Giuliano Mignini said the American slit her roommate's throat on the night of Nov. 1, 2007, driven by sexual desire and alpha-female competitiveness. Asking for a life sentence with nine months' isolation, Mignini said "La Knox" wanted a sex "game" and used her feminine wiles to manipulate two besotted young men — one of whom is already convicted, the other on trial with her — into restraining Kercher while she plunged a kitchen knife into her neck.
"Probably she would have insulted Meredith," Mignini said, reconstructing the event with representatives of the U.S. embassy seated silently a few feet behind the defense table. "And she probably said, 'You are always behaving like a little saint. Now we will show you, and now we will make you have sex!'"
Link:
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1943553,00.html
But,
but, but Vixen,
I thought early Italian newspaper reports said it was a BLOW BY A MAN?
* * *
Now on another topic,
most believe that those were not African hairs found in Meredith's bedroom, right?
But at the time,
before forensic results came in on these hairs or fibers,
as some believe that they are,
well the police probably believed them to hair strands from a black male.
It's not hard to believe that the cops
were looking for a black male at the time of Amanda's arrest,
but when real evidence results came in, just substituted 1 black man for another,
right?
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