South Carolina, tear down that flag!

[Aepervius]

But here in GA, I see it flown a lot, while at the same time rarely hearing racist views put forth by anyone.

That's because most people don't spout racist nonsense all the time. It is small bit here and there "some thug was arrested. i bet he was black", "I don't want more of those living in the area" "moslems are violent folk" or your from time to time "uncle racist rant" or similar. Pay more attention to it and I bet you will see the general culture of racism some area have.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I have never had an answer on this. If the Flag is about the south and southerners why are blacks not included as true southerners?

 

[332nd]

I have never had an answer on this. If the Flag is about the south and southerners why are blacks not included as true southerners?

From what I've seen, that's countered by pointing to a few black folks who are ok with the flag & saying "See! They don't mind at all!"

 

[jimbob]

Anyone flying the confederate flag today may make whatever claims they like. They cannot hide from the fact they are flying it knowing full well racists will nod in agreement when they see it blowing in the wind.

Yes. The whole fact that they try to claim "Heritage not hate" means that they are aware of its unsavoury inception. Unlike many other symbols, this was created as a symbol of tyranny.

That's because most people don't spout racist nonsense all the time. It is small bit here and there "some thug was arrested. i bet he was black", "I don't want more of those living in the area" "moslems are violent folk" or your from time to time "uncle racist rant" or similar. Pay more attention to it and I bet you will see the general culture of racism some area have.

This too.

 

[paulhutch]

From what I've seen, that's countered by pointing to a few black folks who are ok with the flag & saying "See! They don't mind at all!"

Yeah, it like how Fast Eddie quoted only the aggregate data from the CNN poll and when I pointed out that the poll page said that 72% of African-Americans consider it racist he and the other pro-confederate flag people just ignore that fact and keep arguing that the flag isn't a problem.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yeah, it like how Fast Eddie quoted only the aggregate data from the CNN poll and when I pointed out that the poll page said that 72% of African-Americans consider it racist he and the other pro-confederate flag people just ignore that fact and keep arguing that the flag isn't a problem.

Of course, who cares what a lesser people thinks anyway?

 

[dudalb]

This is an aside, but can you really think of any situation in the past...say, decade, where he showed up, where he wasn't invited? Or where there wasn't already a controversy?

In any event, the point is that there's this idea that some interloper simply walks in and suddenly causes black people to be angry. And that's false. Folks were always angry about these matters. People like Sharpton attract mainstream media attention to that anger, and they know it.

Oh, demogogues often exploit real issues.
And nice way to forget about the Brawley incident,where Sharpton out and out lied to promote his cause.

 

[DavidJames]

Oh, demogogues often exploit real issues.
And nice way to forget about the Brawley incident,where Sharpton out and out lied to promote his cause.

Yeah, let's not forget chappaquiddick or that Robert Byrd supported segregation.


At some point we need to live in this century.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah, let's not forget chappaquiddick or that Robert Byrd supported segregation.


At some point we need to live in this century.

BUt I think the Brawley incident pretty much estaliblished the character of Al Sharpton,and why he should not be trusted.
Frankly, if it was a conservative who was being discusses, you would NEVER let him off the hook. Me ,I don't like liars or self seeking demogogues no matter what their politics. I hate this routine of double standards:If a guy I agree with does it, it's ok or forgivable, but if a guy on the other side does it,it's a unforgivable sin.

Time to take off the political blinders and admit that jerks exists on all ends of the political spectrum.

 

[luchog]

I am just bringing light to the situation as I see it. Many people criticize Al Sharpton, not because of his tactics and message, but because he's black and commands media attention.

No, they criticize Sharpton because he's a demagogue who is far more interested in pushing an agenda than he is in truth; and has no problem attacking and demonizing anyone who tries to insert verifiable facts into the debate. He jumps into whatever controversy he can to push himself and keep himself in the spotlight, and is only secondarily concerned with the actual issues involve.

Not like he's alone in that; Farrakhan could certainly give him a run for his money for sheer stridency.

 

[steve s]

By a vote of 37 to 3, the S.C. Senate has voted to take down the flag.

http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-lawmakers-return-confederate-flag-debate-085829900.html

Steve S

 

[Upchurch]

By a vote of 37 to 3, the S.C. Senate has voted to take down the flag.

http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-lawmakers-return-confederate-flag-debate-085829900.html

Steve S

Not a hard decision, apparently. Good for them.

eta: misread the post. Looks like the SC House needs to approve it as well. I'm guessing that'll be a closer vote.

 

[marplots]

By a vote of 37 to 3, the S.C. Senate has voted to take down the flag.

http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-lawmakers-return-confederate-flag-debate-085829900.html

Steve S

This will please the all important slave demographic.

 

[Upchurch]

This will please the all important slave demographic.

Also the "Disliking traitors to the US" demographic.

 

[marplots]

Also the "Disliking traitors to the US" demographic.

Do you think Mississippi will change their state flag? That would be something. I understand it's been swapped around a bit over the years, with the latest version getting adopted in 2001.

 

[SezMe]

No, they criticize Sharpton because he's a demagogue who is far more interested in pushing an agenda ....

There it is again. It is so common - and so stupid - to hear it said that someone "has an agenda" when they don't like a person's policies, politics, opinion, etc. OF COURSE, they have an agenda. Who doesn't have an "agenda"? I guarantee that the person calling, "Agenda! Agenda!" also has an agenda. When the hell did having an agenda become a bad thing?

 

[The Greater Fool]

There it is again. It is so common - and so stupid - to hear it said that someone "has an agenda" when they don't like a person's policies, politics, opinion, etc. OF COURSE, they have an agenda. Who doesn't have an "agenda"? I guarantee that the person calling, "Agenda! Agenda!" also has an agenda. When the hell did having an agenda become a bad thing?

When their agenda conflicted with our agenda!

 

[Upchurch]

Do you think Mississippi will change their state flag? That would be something. I understand it's been swapped around a bit over the years, with the latest version getting adopted in 2001.

Dunno. I have no particular insights into Mississippi politics. I would hope so. I feel it would be a step towards betterment.

 

[Craig B]

Do you think Mississippi will change their state flag? That would be something. I understand it's been swapped around a bit over the years, with the latest version getting adopted in 2001.

Things do move in Mississippi, if slowly. After all, that state got round to ratifying the 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery ... on 18 February 2013.

 

[Meadmaker]

Anyone flying the confederate flag today may make whatever claims they like. They cannot hide from the fact they are flying it knowing full well racists will nod in agreement when they see it blowing in the wind.

That is undoubtedly true. When using a visual symbol, it really doesn't matter what you mean by it. People will take it to mean whatever meaning it has for them, and in the case of a confederate flag, racists will use it as support for racism.


I found myself wondering under what circumstances I would ever get something with confederate flag theme art. There are pretty limited circumstances. I would play wargames, some of which have now been banned from Amazon.com. In ancient days (i.e. when I was young) I played old style hexagon and cardboard counter wargames, some of which had civil war themes. Of course, when playing, we would drink beer. (I wasn't all that young. At least 17.) If I were at a civil war battlefield, and they had confederate flag coasters, I could see getting some, because I assume that they had union coasters, too. Then each player would get the coaster that matched his army.

I mention coasters because that was specifically mentioned in the article I read about merchandise being pulled from the gift shop at Vicksburg. Actual beer glasses with Union and Confederate flags would be better. However, the director of the National Park Service has decreed that such coasters will not be available, at least in confederate colors.