Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Diocletus · Jul 2, 2015

christianahannah said:
Oh, I know Amanda and Raffaele was a preliminary hearing but I think they did put on somewhat of a defense to refute the evidence they had been given thus far.

They also put on somewhat of a defense before Matteini, but no one in their right mind would suggest that her findings should be binding against the defendants in the actual trial. Similarly, findings made against a different guy, by a judge who was also conducting K/S's preliminary hearing, aren't usable in K/S's trial.

Dougm · Jul 2, 2015

Grinder said:
I was referring more to Mignini's case and other PIP pipe dreams for charges against this or that. He was pretty good on Hellmann as well.

Of course he always wishes for guilt. IIRC he has also predicted correctly on evidence allowed etc.

He was not alone in recognizing the significance of the calunnia unlike a certain PIP.

On that I will agree -- I think some of the PIP have an exaggerated sense of how Mignini's actions are viewed in Italy, vs. their perceptions of them. And he certainly has explained to us the actual crime of calunnia, which is less of a "slander", and more like an "obstruction of justice", as viewed in Italy.

Good on Hellmann? You mean that it would reversed? That again to me is wishing on a star. Did he predict that Hellmann would rule as he did in the first place? As I recall, the entire PG community was stunned. Although not as stunned as with the latest ISC ruling.

Doesn't matter, Mach is allowed his own POV, like the rest of us. I just wouldn't put much stock in any predictions.

Grinder · Jul 2, 2015

Dougm said:
Good on Hellmann? You mean that it would reversed? That again to me is wishing on a star. Did he predict that Hellmann would rule as he did in the first place? As I recall, the entire PG community was stunned. Although not as stunned as with the latest ISC ruling.

Doesn't matter, Mach is allowed his own POV, like the rest of us. I just wouldn't put much stock in any predictions.

By good on Hellmann I meant his prediction on the overturn and why. He was upset that the original judge was removed and replaced by Hellmann but it's just a general memory.

I do think something is a bit amiss and we should have the report by now. I'm not clear that he is actually predicting anything specific. He said that the verdict will stand, no?

RWVBWL · Jul 2, 2015

christianahannah said:
Oh, I know Amanda and Raffaele was a preliminary hearing but I think they did put on somewhat of a defense to refute the evidence they had been given thus far.

Greetings' ya'll
For some of you who wonder if [SIZE="-10"]Raff[/SIZE]+Amanda were represented during Rudy's Fast Track Trial,
don't forget to check the archives from Old Perugia Shock!

Here's 3 links to Perugia Shock that I posted a coupla years ago.
Each of the links cover every month of the year up until 2010.

As the investigation into Meredith Kercher's rape+murder
wrapped up and was presented to the Court in June of 2008,
I'd have a read from June/July of 2008 to the end of Oct. 2008...

1) - Perugia Shock - Nov. 2007 to Dec. 2008:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9343323&postcount=7331

2) - Perugia Shock - Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2009:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9343325&postcount=7332

3) - Perugia Shock - Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2010:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9343331&postcount=7333

* * *
Have a great day!
RW

RWVBWL · Jul 2, 2015

RWVBWL · Jul 3, 2015

RWVBWL · Jul 3, 2015

Man,
I luv Old Perugia Shock!

Heck, check out this tidbit,
in bolded black below,
from Frank Sfarzo from Jan. 31, 2012,
the link can be found in my post up above.

It's about the Interrogation of Amanda Knox,
facilitated to happen + leading to her arrest and imprisonment,
the night before her Mom was set to arrive in Italy,
which the cops, per Judge Matteini, knew about.

Also check out this on Perugia Shock,
it's got some good info about a,
ah, discussion Amanda had with this Judge.
See June 4 and June 8, of 2008:
http://web.archive.org/web/20101015182653/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html

Judge Claudia Matteini said:
As for the flight risk, it is still present. Your family lives in the United States, so it would be extremely easy for you to leave the country. The fact that you did not do so before you were arrested is totally irrelevant. We must remind you that your arrest was made very early, and was effected purposely before the arrival of your mother in order to avoid just such a possibility.

Mignini Was There And The Interrogation Was Video Recorded

“I gave the order, to bring them both in together” –Giobbi revealed at the trial. Amanda wasn’t to suspect that she was suspected, she had to think she was there by chance, just to accompany Raffaele. So that if she still had the text messages, Patrick-to-Amanda and back, she wouldn’t have deleted them. She was expected, instead, very expected. She didn’t know, but the party was thrown for her. And for her cellphone.

They had understood (sigh…) that Patrick was the killer and they were hoping to find proof of that in her cellphone. That’s why they sent a cop to “chat” with her while she was waiting: to make sure she didn’t delete the text messages right before the interrogation. So, as soon as the room was ready, with the camera set up and everything, she was called in. “Let’s go in there, because it’s warmer” they told her (ask her, she can talk now!).

“I was in a room together with the prosecutor Mignini”. –Giobbi adds– We were watching the interrogation, so to study her reactions”.

So, Giobbi reveals that Mignini was present! He is responsible, then, for everything that happened that night.

“The room was faraway, but still I could hear her screams”. So, they could watch the interrogation from a room that was faraway. And that can only happen if the interrogation was broadcast to Mignini and Giobbi in their room, therefore it had to also have been videotaped.
And she was “screaming”! Impressive. An officer is so used to abuses in police stations that he can admit in court without any problem that a witness, alone in the hands of many cops, overnight, is SCREAMING during an interrogation!

Indeed she was screaming, and we even know why.

* * *

ETA:
Odd that Amanda's Mom knew something was up,
and went to the hassle and cost, which surely musta been expensive for an immediate plane ticket
to jam over to Italy as fast as she could. Mom's knew something wasn't right in Perugia, Italy
and was flyin' halfway around the world to be there for her daughter.
And the cops knew of this!

RWVBWL · Jul 3, 2015

Ya know,
for some reason I had pictured Giobbi behind the mirrored glass,
observing Amanda's interrogation.

Not in a room far away,
hangin' with PM Mignini,
watching it on monitor.

Was it recorded?
It seems that the video camera(s) were turned on,
right?

Strozzi · Jul 3, 2015

RWVBWL said:
Ya know,
for some reason I had pictured Giobbi behind the mirrored glass,
observing Amanda's interrogation.

Not in a room far away,
hangin' with PM Mignini,
watching it on monitor.

Was it recorded?
It seems that the video camera(s) were turned on,
right?

Yes. That is what that means. It means the video cameras were turned on.

Italian authorities should verify the source of the account and, if the account's accuracy is verified, go after Mignini, Giobbi, Police Chief de Felice (he was present in the room), Napoleoni, and others for various criminal acts including willfully interrogating a suspect without an attorney or reading her her rights, destruction of evidence (the recordings), perjury, and calunia.

analemma · Jul 3, 2015

Strozzi said:
Yes. That is what that means. It means the video cameras were turned on.

Italian authorities should verify the source of the account and, if the account's accuracy is verified, go after Mignini, Giobbi, Police Chief de Felice (he was present in the room), Napoleoni, and others for various criminal acts including willfully interrogating a suspect without an attorney or reading her her rights, destruction of evidence, perjury, and calunia.

sure....Right after they publish the motivation.

Grinder · Jul 3, 2015

Strozzi said:
Yes. That is what that means. It means the video cameras were turned on.

Italian authorities should verify the source of the account and, if the account's accuracy is verified, go after Mignini, Giobbi, Police Chief de Felice (he was present in the room), Napoleoni, and others for various criminal acts including willfully interrogating a suspect without an attorney or reading her her rights, destruction of evidence (the recordings), perjury, and calunia.

Most of that particular account has not proven out. Amanda herself in her book states that only Raf was asked to come in that night. Page 107 hardback.

There is debate as to whether or not Giobbi made his proclamation to enhance his stature as the big shot detective or what.

Even if the camera was on that doesn't mean the recorder was going. CCTV does not include a mandatory record function.

I don't think De Felice was one of the detectives questioning. Nappy and Ficaro were there I think and some of Nappy's crew.

sept79 · Jul 3, 2015

RWVBWL said:
Ya know,
for some reason I had pictured Giobbi behind the mirrored glass,
observing Amanda's interrogation.

Not in a room far away,
hangin' with PM Mignini,
watching it on monitor.

Was it recorded?
It seems that the video camera(s) were turned on,
right?

Was this argued by the defense in court? Or, is this one of those issues where the prosecution can threaten the defense for questioning their 'character'/'truthfulness'?

Grinder · Jul 3, 2015

sept79 said:
Was this argued by the defense in court? Or, is this one of those issues where the prosecution can threaten the defense for questioning their 'character'/'truthfulness'?

What would they have argued in court?

If they had said the interrogation had been recorded and the recording was destroyed I'm sure they would had something charged.

RWVBWL · Jul 3, 2015

Grinder said:
Most of that particular account has not proven out. Amanda herself in her book states that only Raf was asked to come in that night. Page 107 hardback.

There is debate as to whether or not Giobbi made his proclamation to enhance his stature as the big shot detective or what.

Even if the camera was on that doesn't mean the recorder was going. CCTV does not include a mandatory record function.

I don't think De Felice was one of the detectives questioning. Nappy and Ficaro were there I think and some of Nappy's crew.

If so,
we've got some lying cops and Judges in Italy, right?

Amanda Knox was not screaming out loud,
Giobbi was behind the glass mirror, PM Mignini was still sleepin' at his house with the wife +kids tucked in bed, the cops didn't slap Amanda a coupla times, Amanda was allowed a lawyer, she was not served tea and biscitts, or was that croissants(?), the cops did allow her to use the johnny because she was havin' feminine issues, and the cops were not planning to arrest her before her Mommy arrived in a few hours, and no 1 would have ever decided to press the record button to capture every word that a foreign suspect mighta said in an overnight interrogation, do I got that right?

Wattson · Jul 3, 2015

Grinder said:
Most of that particular account has not proven out. Amanda herself in her book states that only Raf was asked to come in that night. Page 107 hardback.

There is debate as to whether or not Giobbi made his proclamation to enhance his stature as the big shot detective or what.

Even if the camera was on that doesn't mean the recorder was going. CCTV does not include a mandatory record function.

I don't think De Felice was one of the detectives questioning. Nappy and Ficaro were there I think and some of Nappy's crew.

“I gave the order, to bring them both in together” –Giobbi revealed at the trial. Amanda wasn’t to suspect that she was suspected, she had to think she was there by chance, just to accompany Raffaele.

Grinder · Jul 3, 2015

RWVBWL said:
If so,
we've got some lying cops and Judges in Italy, right?

Amanda Knox was not screaming out loud,
Giobbi was behind the glass mirror, PM Mignini was still sleepin' at his house with the wife +kids tucked in bed, the cops didn't slap Amanda a coupla times, Amanda was allowed a lawyer, she was not served tea and biscitts, or was that croissants(?), the cops did allow her to use the johnny because she was havin' feminine issues, and the cops were not planning to arrest her before her Mommy arrived in a few hours, and no 1 would have ever decided to press the record button to capture every word that a foreign suspect mighta said in an overnight interrogation, do I got that right?

As I said and gave the cite, he didn't call them both in as Amanda herself wrote in her book. Without going out to research other details I remember that after this account was published that other information showed other errors. IIRC Mignini was sleeping upstairs and was awakened but I'd have to verify that as it's been a while.

There is no question that Giobbi misrepresented his calling them both in "with mathematical certainty"

I think it was tea and cakes.

RWVBWL · Jul 3, 2015

Grinder said:
As I said and gave the cite, he didn't call them both in as Amanda herself wrote in her book. Without going out to research other details I remember that after this account was published that other information showed other errors. IIRC Mignini was sleeping upstairs and was awakened but I'd have to verify that as it's been a while.

There is no question that Giobbi misrepresented his calling them both in "with mathematical certainty"

I think it was tea and cakes.

Question;
Do you think that the cops knew Amanda's Mommy had booked, bought a ticket
and was, probably at that very time, flying to Italy to see what was up?

Grinder · Jul 3, 2015

Wattson said:
“I gave the order, to bring them both in together” –Giobbi revealed at the trial. Amanda wasn’t to suspect that she was suspected, she had to think she was there by chance, just to accompany Raffaele.

So he used mind control to get her to come in?

The call asked for only Raf according to Amanda's book.

Just out of curiosity where is the part not in quotes from?

I looked online for it and low and behold this was the hit:

this is Frank Sfarzo on Perugia Shock:

“MIGNINI WAS THERE AND THE INTERROGATION WAS VIDEO RECORDED” January 31, 2012

“I gave the order, to bring them both in together” –Giobbi revealed at the trial. “So, as soon as the room was ready, with the camera set up and everything, she was called in”

“I was in a room together with the prosecutor Mignini” –Giobbi adds– “We were watching the interrogation, so to study her reactions”.

“So, Giobbi reveals that Mignini was present! He is responsible, then, for everything that happened that night.”

But in the court transcript Dr Giobbi says nothing of the kind. The only other observer was Dr Profazio, the head of the Flying Squad. Dr Mignini was at home in bed.

And in his testimony there was zero mention of any camera. There was no recording. They were merely puzzling over Sollecito’s and Knox’s behavior.

Now I don't like TJMK or other PGP sites but that was what came up. You can read what their court translation is.

Remember last week Thoughtful's translation was used to prove Guede's changing story during a Skype - it also turned out to be the source for CD's blog.

ETA - here's the alleged testimony http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Edgardo_Giobbi's_Testimony

same site of the Skype proof

Grinder · Jul 3, 2015

RWVBWL said:
Question;
Do you think that the cops knew Amanda's Mommy had booked, bought a ticket
and was, probably at that very time, flying to Italy to see what was up?

Yes. What does that have to do with what Amanda wrote?

Grinder · Jul 3, 2015

Giobbi must have thought they had the guilty person to puff himself up so much.

Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

Illuminator

Muse

Penultimate Amazing

Master Poster

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Master Poster

Master Poster

Graduate Poster

Banned

Penultimate Amazing

Critical Thinker

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Master Poster

Thinker

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Master Poster

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