Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[zotz]

We really don't know Rudy's state of mind. Some say that there is no evidence that he is psychotic but has he ever been examined? The answer is certainly yes but the Italian officials are not going to tell us about it. We will know when/if he is paroled because the public will demand assurances. His release will happen probably sometime in the next two or three years. He will be watched closely for a little while. Then he will be free with no family ties or close friends. He will of course have Mignini. Maybe he will live with his family. A scary scenario!

 

[Grinder]

I don't have to prove he didn't. Employment is not the default position here. If he had a job, he would have been referred to as "Rudy Guede, who worked as a waiter at Big Al's Pizza", rather than "Rudy Guede, a local drifter and drug dealer". BTW, I don't use the latter terms, because I don't think they are fair descriptions based on what we know. But if he had any kind of regular job, we would know about it. Would you prefer we call him a "freelancer"? I'm not saying he never worked, just that there is no evidence of any steady income at the time of the murder, and there is evidence of him stealing things.

Really? He wasn't a drifter. He had lived most of his life in Perugia and had an apartment but the meme was "drifter". He had a regular job in Milan until the restaurant closed.

From the time I was little basically, I’ve known this family
Pros. Mignini And what work did you do when you arrived?
Guede When I arrived together with Gabriele Mancini we looked for work via
these temping agencies and after that in the end I went to work as a
gardener at the agricultural company “Il Castellaro”.
Pros. Mignini Owned by?
Guede Ilaria Caporali
Pros. Mignini Yes and where is this agricultural company?
Guede Between Ponte Pattoli and Villa Pitignano
Pros. Mignini Il Castellaro eh?
Guede Il Castellaro
Pros. Mignini Ah I’ve understood, I’ve understood … yes
Guede Basically Il Castellaro is owned by the foster family where I had been,
I had been fostered and so back in Perugia I started to work
Pros. Mignini But were you fostered by the Caporali?
Guede By the Caporali then later however I went to stay with my aunt.
Pros. Mignini Yes
Guede Once I reached the age of maturity
Pros. Mignini In Lecco
Guede In Lecco
Pros. Mignini And then you returned and so you rediscovered…
Guede Yes I rediscovered.. let’s say all my friends and the people I was
attached to
Pros. Mignini And so you worked there until…
Guede I started and if I’m not mistaken from 3rd March until the last time
which was the end of August
Pros. Mignini After August what happened?
Guede Well, in August I left this job and so I looked for another, it’s not as if
I’m…
Pros. Mignini Yes
Guede Together with this friend who is called Giacomo Benedetti and I
looked for work but in the meantime I had jobs like in catering, in a
restaurant, in fact I was, I worked two days at the, if I’m not mistaken,
the name should be Villa Umbra, I did some work there and then I did
others through people I knew in Milan and Ancona
Pros. Mignini Ah right so the job in catering in Milan and Ancona?
Guede Yes but they weren’t fixed positions

You don't like people making judgments about Rudy without firm evidence. Yet you have no firm evidence to say he DIDN'T carry weapons.

As difficult as it is to prove a negative in this case the fact he had no knife besides the one he had borrowed is proof he had no knife before arriving. The only time he was searched he clearly hadn't been carrying.

I don't complain or comment about everything anyone ever says, and I don't get the relevance. The PGP wiki has a lot of twisted interpretations of the evidence, so I don't consider it a reliable source.

Put that in the book. Agreed.

I don't think we know what policy he had. I don't know what he did on an average Wednesday walking down the street. I think it is more likely he would arm himself with a knife if he was planning a burglary, in case he is discovered and needs to use it to help him escape.

Based on basically nothing. He cruised Milan a big city with no weapon.

It really isn't anything like the PGP list. They take things like buying underwear, doing yoga, or smoking a joint, and decide that means AK murdered someone. All I am saying is, based on what we have seen, I think it is likely Rudy was committing burglaries, and carrying a knife when he did so. I am not saying it because he likes to eat kabobs, or because he smokes pot.

No knife. Maybe burglaries. Definitely a sketchy character at the time. I see the list of unverifieds as the similarity. It was summed well by the comment that because he killed Meredith he must have done the burglaries.

As an additional example, the PGP claim Amanda was violent, yet there is not a shred of evidence she ever raised a hand to anyone. That is much more flimsy than saying Rudy was a burglar, and carried a knife, at least sometimes.

Don't really know that she was described as violent but she did hit boy once to defend her sister and hosted a party where the policeman saw rocks in the street. To be clear, I don't think she was violent.

I think you are making claims that are not backed by the evidence we have. We don't know for sure if he carried knives around, or not. He didn't have one of his own when he entered the nursery school, so he decided to take one. We know that much.

Yes. I'm betting carrying a weapon in Italy is frowned upon more than here. We know he entered w/o a weapon. We don't know if he would have left with it.

I think if there was a Perugia resident who said that he found Amanda Knox in his home in the middle of the night, and she brandished a knife at him, that story would be taken seriously. These stories about Rudy are simply NOT the same types of stories as the ones about Amanda.

If someone came forward a couple of months after the pictures were in the paper and said he had seen the kids walking between Raf's and Amanda's at midnight but only to level of believed no PIP would have accepted that testimony.

The two claims about that have generally been put forth by people who used to be in law enforcement in the United States. They think, based on their experience, that local law enforcement was aware of Rudy's activities, and they find it very odd that he was not arrested. So they put two and two together, and they answer is that the police must have been aware, and they did not arrest him because he was working for or with them.

For me bogus appeal to authority.

I also don't accept the idea that if Rudy had been arrested for the law office burglary, for example, Meredith would not have been killed. He likely would not have spent much, if any, time in jail, and would have been free, awaiting trial.

The informant thing could be true, I don't know, but I don't see any firm evidence of it.

Here we agree.

 

[Grinder]

We really don't know Rudy's state of mind. Some say that there is no evidence that he is psychotic but has he ever been examined? The answer is certainly yes but the Italian officials are not going to tell us about it. We will know when/if he is paroled because the public will demand assurances. His release will happen probably sometime in the next two or three years. He will be watched closely for a little while. Then he will be free with no family ties or close friends. He will of course have Mignini. Maybe he will live with his family. A scary scenario!

If he was sick one would think that his attorneys would have gone for mental illness defense. Mignini could have supported it and dropped the case against the kids. That's not to say I think it impossible he was found to be mentally ill. Mental illness would need to be part of this.

 

[Methos]

[...]
I've seen the landlady meme for years but don't remember any non true crime source.[...]

From true crime writer Judge Micheli (page 20):

Nel frattempo, la Polizia Giudiziaria si recava presso l’appartamento di Via del Canerino, contattando la proprietaria (MARANI RINA, residente a Foligno): la donna consegnava spontaneamente le chiavi dell’immobile, facendo presente che da qualche giorno non aveva notizie del conduttore, il quale le aveva detto già da prima della metà di ottobre di doversi recare all’estero, e non aveva ottemperato alla richiesta della signora di esibire il suo nuovo contratto di lavoro (volendo la MARANI essere tranquillizzata circa le possibilità del GUEDE di far fronte ai pagamenti del canone).Per tale motivo, era passata presso l’abitazione unitamente ad un’amica, ed era stata costei ad entrare rilevando che non vi era nessuno, malgrado la cucina in disordine.

 

[Grinder]

From true crime writer Judge Micheli (page 20):

thanks

Eta - that report came from his employers the police.

Do they also report on him being in arrears?

 

[Ken Dine]

Do these people know women that act like this? Does anyone?

My daughter can be Hell-on-Wheels when she has PMS, but it only lasts for about 3 weeks, so she often has 4 or 5 good days per month.

Last year while visiting my daughter she claimed she could tell Amanda was guilty from her behavior. I asked her what she was talking about, and she said she had noticed that Amanda never directly said she didn't kill Meredith in any interview.

I went online and quickly found examples of Amanda directly denying that she had killed Meredith, but my daughter didn't seem swayed.

My daughter is an RN (and she also obtained some post-graduate degrees) and she only went to private schools growing up, so she's fairly intelligent (and successful), yet she often has a skewed view of reality (e.g., she voted for Obama twice!)

 

[Dougm]

Guede Together with this friend who is called Giacomo Benedetti and I
looked for work but in the meantime I had jobs like in catering, in a
restaurant, in fact I was, I worked two days at the, if I’m not mistaken,
the name should be Villa Umbra, I did some work there and then I did
others through people I knew in Milan and Ancona
Pros. Mignini Ah right so the job in catering in Milan and Ancona?
Guede Yes but they weren’t fixed positions[/I]

My only point is that he did not have a regular job at the time of the murder. It seems he is saying he had odd jobs off and on.

As difficult as it is to prove a negative in this case the fact he had no knife besides the one he had borrowed is proof he had no knife before arriving. The only time he was searched he clearly hadn't been carrying.

I just find it curious that, when in a place, where he was not given permission to be by the people that owned it, what he chose to take, and put in his pack, was a knife. If I were in a store, and put something in my backpack, the store security will assume I am planning to remove it from the store without paying. I think it is reasonable to assume Rudy was planning on taking the knife with him. Do I know that for sure? No. But it seems like a much more reasonable assumption than to say he was going to leave it there -- that makes no sense, IMO.

Based on basically nothing. He cruised Milan a big city with no weapon.

From what I can see, he wanted one, and was taking it from the nursery.

Definitely a sketchy character at the time.

That is probably all we really know, or need to.

Don't really know that she was described as violent but she did hit boy once to defend her sister and hosted a party where the policeman saw rocks in the street. To be clear, I don't think she was violent.

I think she was 8 or something when she protected her sister. Just proves my point. To be consistent with your Rudy reasoning, no one ever saw her throw a rock, ever.

If someone came forward a couple of months after the pictures were in the paper and said he had seen the kids walking between Raf's and Amanda's at midnight but only to level of believed no PIP would have accepted that testimony.

I don't agree with that. If it was a person who was believable, had not told a different story earlier, was not on heroin, etc., I think some people would believe it. The people who are disbelieved generally have good reasons there story does not hold up.

The PGP would still think Amanda did it if a videotape showed up of Guede doing it alone.

 

[Methos]

thanks

Eta - that report came from his employers the police.

Do they also report on him being in arrears?

Not that I know, it would be nice to have Ms Marani's full testimony or her statement to the police or whatever it is called where this information comes from (AFAIK it's not available at any of the Wikis )

 

[Strozzi]

There's another new book out by some fraud called Andrew G. Hodges claiming to be a doctor. Have a look at the free peak inside. The reconstruction is as sick and as perverted as Nick Van der Leek's.. . .

MichaelB, I sure hope the author whom you are describing as a fraud doesn't post here. Otherwise, the mods will come for you and you will be cooling your heels for at least 3 days. Trust me, I know. .

Unless I know for sure that someone does NOT post here, I refer to them as "the distinguished poster".

 

[RWVBWL]

Btw, would you believe him more if he said they touched in her bedroom? why is his story about being in the lounge significant?

Grinder,
Because Rudy Guede is full of ****.

Have you ever been with a hot chick,
makin' out, foolin' around, and then things suddenly cooled down and the chick left?

In the case we discuss,
if you believe RG,
well it seems things apparently cooled down soooo much that Meredith
had to put her jacket, err sweatshirt back on.

At her own house.

Question:
Did Rudy leave his DNA on Meredith's jacket sleeve,
err sweatshirt, as they fooled around, per he, on the couch,
or when he removed her clothing to rape her in her bedroom?

 

[davefoc]

...
My daughter is an RN (and she also obtained some post-graduate degrees) and she only went to private schools growing up, so she's fairly intelligent (and successful), yet she often has a skewed view of reality (e.g., she voted for Obama twice!)

I'm a registered Republican and at least on Obama I have the same skewed view of reality as your daughter. I voted for him twice.

It is interesting and a little sad that an apparently intelligent woman with such an unusually well informed and skillfully analytical father would come to such a conclusion.

The issue of why some people believe so strongly in the guilt of AK/RS is an interesting question to me. I think part of it is the routine conspiracy theory thing where people derive part of their ego from having specialized knowledge that leads to beliefs outside the norm. But confirmation bias and some kind of Knox hatred that I don't understand also seem to be drivers for the pro-guilt people.

A couple of questions:
1. Is some kind of Knox hatred really a significant driver of the pro-guilt group?
2. What is the basis for this anti-Knox hatred?

 

[RWVBWL]

Two ts

Thanks for the correction,
I'll try to remember it.



But with that said, Grinder,
it is my opinion that none of us will ever convince you
to alter your thoughts on this case we discuss even when we have shown you to be wrong.

Heck, I've shown you at least a couple of times by now how it is that Rudy signs his name,

it is with y, not an i.

Yet you continue to repeat this miss-representation of the spelling of his name,
why, I do not know, because some court or newspaper or blog miss-spelled it?

Why don'tcha help correct the mistake?
It's Rudy, not Rudi.

It's Judge Hellmann, with 2 n's,
not Hellman.

It's Walter Biscotti,
err, maybe not, for you'll never believe it,
but Candace Dempsey writes: it's Valter Biscotti.
No way that she is right,
right?

That one is a toughie...

 

[davefoc]

There's another new book out by some fraud called Andrew G. Hodges claiming to be a doctor. Have a look at the free peak inside. The reconstruction is as sick and as perverted as Nick Van der Leek's.. . .

MichaelB, I sure hope the author whom you are describing as a fraud doesn't post here. Otherwise, the mods will come for you and you will be cooling your heels for at least 3 days. Trust me, I know. .

Unless I know for sure that someone does NOT post here, I refer to them as "the distinguished poster".

I think he's safe. Andrew G. Hodges seems to be a guy exploiting high profile stories by claiming specialized knowledge derived from psychiatric skills. He claims to be a psychiatrist in private practice and he claims to have had a number of appearances on different mainstream television news shows (I have no reason to doubt his claims on this). He claims to know that JonBenet Ramsey was killed by her mother based on his interpretation of what she said and/or wrote and he claims to know some bad stuff about Obama based on his interpretation of some of what Obama has said and he's written a book where he uses similar BS to know that Knox was part of the group that killed Kercher.

We might not like it, but the fact seems to be that people can make a pretty good living by making up **** and claiming that it is truth that they have been able to divine with their specialized skills. I doubt that he writes anything in the book which he could be sued for because my guess is that he couches it all in some sort of statement that this only his theory. He is obviously a major jerk, but he is a major jerk getting paid to be a major jerk. Once again life isn't fair but that is the way stuff is. Note: My review of Hodges was very brief. I didn't even read the free intro to any of his books. The promos looked like BS to me and life is short. I don't read every author on Bigfoot either.

 

[RWVBWL]

Man has been blocked by the Bundespolizei (federal police german) on a train to Mainz, because found without a ticket and without identity documents.

From what I recall,
Rudy Guede split from Perugia on the evening of Nov. 3rd.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

But he apparently left town and Italy,
without his personal ID and documents.

For over 2 weeks
the dude apparently cruised around in another country without an ID.

The dude seems to be street-wise enough to know how to blend in,
to not stand out in a crowd nor attract attention to himself,
yet all the while, he apparently he knows the cops are looking for him...
And he ain't got no ID...


So I find it odd that the cops in Perugia searched him and found drugs in his possession
just a few days before "poor Rudy" raped Meredith Kercher.

What was Rudy doing that made the cops stop him + his bro's
and search him just 2 days after Rudy was busted in the Kiddy School?

 

[Grinder]

My only point is that he did not have a regular job at the time of the murder. It seems he is saying he had odd jobs off and on.

He did not have a regular job at the time. He most assurdenly was involved in some illegal activities; maybe burglary, maybe fencing, maybe selling some drugs.

I just find it curious that, when in a place, where he was not given permission to be by the people that owned it, what he chose to take, and put in his pack, was a knife. If I were in a store, and put something in my backpack, the store security will assume I am planning to remove it from the store without paying. I think it is reasonable to assume Rudy was planning on taking the knife with him. Do I know that for sure? No. But it seems like a much more reasonable assumption than to say he was going to leave it there -- that makes no sense, IMO.

We will disagree. I think carrying weapons is a much bigger deal in Italy than here and that he grabbed it in case the person that let him was setting him up, but wouldn't risk getting caught with it on the street.

 

[Grinder]

Not that I know, it would be nice to have Ms Marani's full testimony or her statement to the police or whatever it is called where this information comes from (AFAIK it's not available at any of the Wikis )

From your posted quote it would seem a incident report made by the officers. She may never have been interviewed.

 

[Grinder]

Thanks for the correction,
I'll try to remember it.



But with that said, Grinder,
it is my opinion that none of us will ever convince you
to alter your thoughts on this case we discuss even when we have shown you to be wrong.

Heck, I've shown you at least a couple of times by now how it is that Rudy signs his name,

The courts and most official documents spell it Rudi.

Since we know he is a liar it is clear he is lying about how his name is spelled. And it bugs you.

Methos just produced a reliable source that has convinced me that his landlady definitely asked for his employment info. it wasn't a big deal but I'm glad that it was clarified.

Your find of Thoughtful's translation both made it clear where CD had sourced it and added tremendously to the "proven" information discussed here about the Skype. I'm looking forward to a non PGP translation and the context it was given in.

There remain some questions about the length and location of the calls. I'm thinking now that Rudi went out and found an unsecured Wi-Fi.

 

[Ken Dine]

I'm a registered Republican and at least on Obama I have the same skewed view of reality as your daughter. I voted for him twice.

Even though I never voted for him, I'm still somewhat ridiculed at my family gatherings for saying I was hoping for the best after Obama's 1st win, so I don't fault you for your 1st vote.

But, we're not here to discuss Obama, who will surely go down in history as one of America's worst presidents.

It is interesting and a little sad that an apparently intelligent woman with such an unusually well informed and skillfully analytical father would come to such a conclusion.

My daughter (as with many people) can be intelligent in areas that interest her, but she probably couldn't tell you the name of America's current VP?

She wasn't that interested in the Amanda Knox case, so she was only knee-jerking.

She'll be here Friday (my B-day is July 4th) so I'll test her on Biden and report back.

The issue of why some people believe so strongly in the guilt of AK/RS is an interesting question to me. I think part of it is the routine conspiracy theory thing where people derive part of their ego from having specialized knowledge that leads to beliefs outside the norm. But confirmation bias and some kind of Knox hatred that I don't understand also seem to be drivers for the pro-guilt people.

A couple of questions:

1. Is some kind of Knox hatred really a significant driver of the pro-guilt group?

2. What is the basis for this anti-Knox hatred?

Dunno? Was it Bill Williams who said the other day that he had PM'd several 'Guilters' to see how they were ticking? I would like to see a discussion about that since some of these hard-core 'Guilters' seemed overly consumed and they must have spent most of their time over the last 7+ years posting their inane nonsense online - Harry Rag comes to mind as a classic 'Guilter' example.

Seriously, what drives them? Misogyny, anti-Americanism, or something else?

It would be interesting to learn something about these hard-core 'Guilter' radicals, which may be possible. After Amanda & Raffaele's exoneration on March 27th, anyone posting the same tired nonsense that they are nevertheless still guilty can be legally sued in America for libel (since they clearly are posting with 'MALICE'), and obviously that old 'Guilter' libel is still ongoing even today, but not as much on this forum lately.

Raffaele has stated that he will no longer tolerate being accused as being an assassin, so he may sue some of these 'Guilters'? Amanda likely just wants to put it behind her, so she may let some libel slide?

There really isn't any anonymity on the web - just file a lawsuit and name the 'Guilter' as a 'John Doe', and then ask the judge for an order to compel their ISP to turn over their name. I would love to know who Harry Rag really is?

If Amanda and/or Raffaele set up a donation site to support legal action against the trolls, then they'll get some money from me!

 

[RWVBWL]

The courts and most official documents spell it Rudi.

Incorrect.
Some of the courts miss-spell it as Rudi.

But the Supreme Court spells it correctly as Rudy.

Here Grinder,
is another example of the correct spelling of Rudy's name:

Weird how the dude lied on his ID application
and spelled his own name with a y, right?


It is just silly, in my surfers opinion,
to watch you make excuses for the continued usage of the incorrect spelling of Rudy's name,
when you nit-pick soooo many other issues we discuss.

 

[zotz]

Seriously, what drives them? Misogyny, anti-Americanism, or something else?

Some of the worst of them are Americans but for many anti-Americanism is definitely part of it. Some of it is just stupidity. There was one that said he saw no conceivable reason why two lovers would turn off their phones in the evening. Many are hooked into conspiracy theories. In Italy views of sexual morality have played a big role. What is par for the course here is shocking depravity there. What shocked them about Amanda was her openness and lack of shame. Remember how contrite Filomena was when she talked about drug taking on the stand.

"i have sinned!"