Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[davefoc]

...

Mignini was Captain Ahab and Amanda was the White Whale.

This seems like a pretty good analogy to me. Although, perhaps his white whale was not specifically Knox and more about successfully prosecuting any case where his Monster of Florence ideas could be vindicated

I can't help but notice that people aren't discussing the Marasca motivations report. I'm speculating here, but apparently the reason is that it hasn't been released. That seems like a minor impediment. Still I can see how a complete lack of information can stifle discussion sometimes.

But what's the deal? Is the court rapped up in deep disagreements about what the report should say? Maybe they're just procrastinating? I can certainly relate to that possibility given my own propensity for procrastination.

 

[Numbers]

This seems like a pretty good analogy to me. Although, perhaps his white whale was not specifically Knox and more about successfully prosecuting any case where his Monster of Florence ideas could be vindicated

I can't help but notice that people aren't discussing the Marasca motivations report. I'm speculating here, but apparently the reason is that it hasn't been released. That seems like a minor impediment. Still I can see how a complete lack of information can stifle discussion sometimes.

But what's the deal? Is the court rapped up in deep disagreements about what the report should say? Maybe they're just procrastinating? I can certainly relate to that possibility given my own propensity for procrastination.

There's no way to know what is happening with the Marasca CSC panel motivation report. They may feel no sense of urgency in issuing it, since the verdict cannot be appealed against nor can it be modified by any Italian court or executive authority.

 

[Dougm]

Interesting discussion here about Rudy's actions and potential motivation. The one thing that seems to be missing, that I think is important to consider is the sheer violence of the attack.

Some think Rudy planned to burgle only. Some think he wanted money and/or valuables. Some think he came planning on a sexual assault, and some think he was there for some revenge motive against Amanda and Meredith.

I think the violence and impracticality of the killing indicates that, whatever the original motive for being there, something caused him to go into an extreme emotional state, not just a panic, but a rage. My own speculation is as follows:

• He did not have a date with Meredith. He came up with that because he had to give a legitimate reason to be present inside the cottage that night
• He either knew, or made a logical assumption that no one would be home, at least for several hours
• The choice of cottage to break into was at least partly to enjoy a feeling of violating the girl's space. He hung out there, he drank from a container in the fridge, he used the toilet. I think he planned to go through their intimate stuff. Here was a man, alone in the home of 4 young women, not invited. A burglar would have grabbed the stuff and gotten out. He wanted to hang around and experience the feeling of being part of their lives.
• Something went terribly wrong, not just a little bit wrong. I don't think Meredith coming home was enough.
• My guess on what that thing was: I think Meredith did something that pulled an emotional trigger. It might be related to his Mother's rejection, or rejection by other women in town, or both. But something happened that sent him into a rage. Maybe she told him there was no way in hell she would ever do anything with him. Maybe her fighting back pissed him off. Maybe she kicked him in the nuts. Maybe simply screaming made him think she saw him as a monster. Not sure, but something pissed him off, big time. (not saying she did anything wrong)

No matter what he was there for, it makes absolutely no sense to stab her in the throat. If he wanted to shut her up, stop her from screaming, or eliminate her as a witness, ripping a hole in her throat was not a good plan. I think the violence and viciousness of the attack shows he went off the deep end, and only afterwards returned to some more lucid state.

The one part I have never been able to get my head around is the sexual assault portion. Several people, both here and elsewhere, think the evidence indicates the sexual portion came after the stabbing. That could be, and I understand why people think that, but something about that doesn't make sense to me. Unless Rudy not only went into a rage as I speculate above, but that it didn't end with just stabbing her, but continued for several minutes and caused him to want to violate her as well. I don't buy the theory that a young man like Rudy would be so sexually frustrated that he would still want to have sex, even as she was dying. If that happened, it is with intent to violate her as a continuation of the rage.

Maybe I don't know what I am talking about, but I am envisioning what we know about Rudy, and what we don't. I see him as emotionally damaged, but I don't see him as a guy who would have thought it was a good idea to kill Meredith in the way that he did, even if he was OK with murder. Cops normally look at scenes like this and say that the victim knew her killer, because a stranger would have no reason to be so vicious.

 

[Ken Dine]

[ ]

4. BUt Meredith was found in her bedroom, with her jacket on (?) and hadn't had time to take her outside clothes off. This suggests she looked and saw Rudy, realized she was trapped, and started yelling for help in her bedroom and maybe trying to lock the bedroom door. At that point Rudy can't talk his way out of it anymore because Meredith is screaming (unlike Milan where he told the lady not to panic), so he HAS TO QUIET HER, hence the violent assault, and escalating to Rudy putting the knife to her throat. (Remember the CCTV footage from OGGI, showing multiple people in the parking garage at about that time, all looking in the direction of the cottage? Meredith continuing to scream throughout the assault, right up until Rudy stabbed her, would be consistent).

I doubt if the garage's CCTV camera had caught anyone reacting to a scream.

While Meredith may well have had time to scream, the cottage has sound-killing masonry walls, the cottage has ceramic roofing, and Meredith's small bedroom window (likely closed on a chilly night) faced in the opposite direction away from the garage.

Filomena's window was broken and theoretically 'open' to an extent, but Guede likely closed Filomena's shutters after entering since he required light to steal things, so the shutters would have been closed before Guede turned on a light.

Even if Filomena's shutters were open during the attack, Meredith's screaming would have had to travel down the hallway from her bedroom, then travel 100 feet to where those people were standing, with sound damping shrubbery and walls between those people and Filomena's window.

"The CCTV captured 37 people across the street from the cottage between 9pm and 10pm. The police failed to interview any of them or request via the media they come forward. In these frames, people can be seen turning to look towards the cottage gate as if they heard or noticed something":

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/timeline-november-1/

While several of those 37 people did turn around, they could have turned around for a number of reasons, but since the few who did turn around did so several minutes apart, they all weren't turning towards a scream since I doubt if Meredith screamed for 8 minutes.

The first group turned at 9:54 pm, the 2nd turned at 9:56 pm, and the last group turned at 10:02 pm (10 minutes were added to the CCTV's slow time-stamp times):

http://amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cctv-perugia.jpg

Personally, I feel Meredith was attacked shortly after entering the cottage that night, and she was probably dead by 9:15 pm, so none of those people in the garage could have heard her screaming.

The only proof that Meredith tried to scream was bruising around her mouth, so how long it took Guede to cover her mouth to silence her will always be unknown, but I seriously doubt her screaming would have traveled very far.

It's fairly obvious that crazy old Nara never heard Meredith screaming.

 

[Numbers]

There's no way to know what is happening with the Marasca CSC panel motivation report. They may feel no sense of urgency in issuing it, since the verdict cannot be appealed against nor can it be modified by any Italian court or executive authority.

Why the delay in the Marasca CSC panel publishing their motivation report is not a concern:

There are some ways to change a CSC judgment in a criminal trial according to Italian procedural laws (CPP), but they are limited and do not apply for an acquittal. In fact, the procedural laws relating to revision trials (CPP Art. 629 and 630, and Constitutional Court judgment No. 113/2011) will be important to Amanda in overturning her conviction for calunnia against Patrick Lumumba.

There is a specific procedural law, CPP Art. 649, which forbids double jeopardy after a final acquittal or conviction (meaning one issued by the CSC).

The procedural laws relating to changing a CSC final judgment (of conviction) are:

CPP Article 625-bis. Extraordinary appeal in Cassation due to a clerical or factual error.

1. The convicted person is allowed to submit a request for rectification of a clerical or factual error contained in the decision delivered by the CSC.
2. The request shall be submitted by the General Public Prosecutor or the convicted person....
3. The clerical error referred to in paragraph 1 may be raised by the CSC....
4. If a request is submitted for a reason other than that provided for in paragraph 1 ... the CSC ... shall ...declare its inadmissibility. Otherwise, the CSC shall decide in chambers {whether or not to accept the request and, if accepted, to rectify the error}.

CPP Article 629. Convictions subject to revision.

1. The revision of judgments of conviction...may be performed at any time and in the cases established by law in favour of the convicted persons, even if the sentence has already been enforced or is extinguished.

CPP Article 630. Cases of revision.

1. Revision may be requested:
a) if the facts underlying the judgment or the criminal decree of conviction are incompatible with the facts established in another final criminal judgment issued by the ordinary judge or a special judge;
b) {not applicable in this case}
c) if new evidence is found or discovered after conviction and, either independently or jointly with already assessed evidence, proves that the convicted person must be dismissed under Article 631;
d) if it is proven that the judgment of conviction has been delivered as a consequence of false documents or statements provided during the trial or any other criminal act deemed an offence by law.

Note: Constitutional Court judgment No. 113/2011 has added the possibility to request revision when it is necessary to reopen the proceedings in order to comply with a final judgment of the European Court of Human Rights.

CPP Article 649. Ne bis in idem {No double jeopardy}

1. The accused person who has been dismissed or convicted by a judgment or criminal decree that has become final shall not be prosecuted again for the same offence, even if his conduct is considered differently in terms of legal definition, stage of the offence or circumstances, without prejudice to Articles 69, paragraph 2 {false report that the accused has died}, and 345 {prosecution was dropped because there was no grounds to proceed}.
2. If, however, the criminal proceedings are started again, the judge shall deliver a judgment of dismissal or of no grounds to proceed at any stage and instance of the proceedings, specifying the cause in the operative part of the judgment.

 

[christianahannah]

Any chance Raf's Nov.6th statement will translated soon?

Where are his earlier interviews?

A translation from The Meredith Wiki. It is basically what has been reported early on from Corriere Della Sera with a few additions. In both Italaian and English translation.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Raffaele_Sollecito's_Nov_5th_2007_Statement_to_the_Police

I haven't thought about his earlier interviews. Maybe there weren't any just the November 5 into 6 one?

 

[Dougm]

A translation from The Meredith Wiki. It is basically what has been reported early on from Corriere Della Sera with a few additions. In both Italaian and English translation.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Raffaele_Sollecito's_Nov_5th_2007_Statement_to_the_Police

I haven't thought about his earlier interviews. Maybe there weren't any just the November 5 into 6 one?

I can see how this statement really got people confused. He gets so much wrong (based on what we find out later) that this likely through the whole investigation off. I don't know if he was stoned, confused, or both, but he really mixes up the two days, matching up the events of the evening of the 31st with the morning of Nov 2.

 

[acbytesla]

Is Ted Bundy the Godwin of crime discussions?

I'm arguing that Rudi's background isn't what PI/FOA put forward.

Even if he had or thought he had a date with her she was still murdered. I believe the experts said there was no sign of rape. That is why the early speculation was that she had met her killer the night before at the Halloween party.

I don't think that these stories should be used in any way as convicting evidence that Rudy killed Meredith. I'm assuming that there is already plenty of evidence PROVING his culpability. I see this as a discussion of why Rudy killed Meredith.

In any sense, it is Rudy"s killing of Meredith that makes these incidents probably true, not the other way around. If there was not overwhelming evidence that Rudy killed Meredith, I would dismiss this out of hand as not worthy of discussion.

Most burglars do not kill and try and avoid any possible confrontations. Rudy taking the knife from the kitchen of Ms Prato means he was preparing for a possible confrontation. Rudy seems almost itching for the kill maybe.

 

[sept79]

Interesting discussion here about Rudy's actions and potential motivation. The one thing that seems to be missing, that I think is important to consider is the sheer violence of the attack.

Some think Rudy planned to burgle only. Some think he wanted money and/or valuables. Some think he came planning on a sexual assault, and some think he was there for some revenge motive against Amanda and Meredith.

I think the violence and impracticality of the killing indicates that, whatever the original motive for being there, something caused him to go into an extreme emotional state, not just a panic, but a rage. My own speculation is as follows:

• He did not have a date with Meredith. He came up with that because he had to give a legitimate reason to be present inside the cottage that night
• He either knew, or made a logical assumption that no one would be home, at least for several hours
• The choice of cottage to break into was at least partly to enjoy a feeling of violating the girl's space. He hung out there, he drank from a container in the fridge, he used the toilet. I think he planned to go through their intimate stuff. Here was a man, alone in the home of 4 young women, not invited. A burglar would have grabbed the stuff and gotten out. He wanted to hang around and experience the feeling of being part of their lives.
• Something went terribly wrong, not just a little bit wrong. I don't think Meredith coming home was enough.
• My guess on what that thing was: I think Meredith did something that pulled an emotional trigger. It might be related to his Mother's rejection, or rejection by other women in town, or both. But something happened that sent him into a rage. Maybe she told him there was no way in hell she would ever do anything with him. Maybe her fighting back pissed him off. Maybe she kicked him in the nuts. Maybe simply screaming made him think she saw him as a monster. Not sure, but something pissed him off, big time. (not saying she did anything wrong)

No matter what he was there for, it makes absolutely no sense to stab her in the throat. If he wanted to shut her up, stop her from screaming, or eliminate her as a witness, ripping a hole in her throat was not a good plan. I think the violence and viciousness of the attack shows he went off the deep end, and only afterwards returned to some more lucid state.

The one part I have never been able to get my head around is the sexual assault portion. Several people, both here and elsewhere, think the evidence indicates the sexual portion came after the stabbing. That could be, and I understand why people think that, but something about that doesn't make sense to me. Unless Rudy not only went into a rage as I speculate above, but that it didn't end with just stabbing her, but continued for several minutes and caused him to want to violate her as well. I don't buy the theory that a young man like Rudy would be so sexually frustrated that he would still want to have sex, even as she was dying. If that happened, it is with intent to violate her as a continuation of the rage.

Maybe I don't know what I am talking about, but I am envisioning what we know about Rudy, and what we don't. I see him as emotionally damaged, but I don't see him as a guy who would have thought it was a good idea to kill Meredith in the way that he did, even if he was OK with murder. Cops normally look at scenes like this and say that the victim knew her killer, because a stranger would have no reason to be so vicious.

It was the beginning of the month and Guede knew that he very well might find some of the girls' rent money.

 

[carbonjam72]

I doubt if the garage's CCTV camera had caught anyone reacting to a scream.

While Meredith may well have had time to scream, the cottage has sound-killing masonry walls, the cottage has ceramic roofing, and Meredith's small bedroom window (likely closed on a chilly night) faced in the opposite direction away from the garage.

Filomena's window was broken and theoretically 'open' to an extent, but Guede likely closed Filomena's shutters after entering since he required light to steal things, so the shutters would have been closed before Guede turned on a light. Even if Filomena's shutters were open during the attack, Meredith's screaming would have had to travel down the hallway from her bedroom, then travel 100 feet to where those people were standing, with sound damping shrubbery and walls between those people and Filomena's window.
"The CCTV captured 37 people across the street from the cottage between 9pm and 10pm. The police failed to interview any of them or request via the media they come forward. In these frames, people can be seen turning to look towards the cottage gate as if they heard or noticed something":

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/timeline-november-1/

While several of those 37 people did turn around, they could have turned around for a number of reasons, but since the few who did turn around did so several minutes apart, they all weren't turning towards a scream since I doubt if Meredith screamed for 8 minutes.The first group turned at 9:54 pm, the 2nd turned at 9:56 pm, and the last group turned at 10:02 pm (10 minutes were added to the CCTV's slow time-stamp times):

http://amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/cctv-perugia.jpg

Personally, I feel Meredith was attacked shortly after entering the cottage that night, and she was probably dead by 9:15 pm, so none of those people in the garage could have heard her screaming.

The only proof that Meredith tried to scream was bruising around her mouth, so how long it took Guede to cover her mouth to silence her will always be unknown, but I seriously doubt her screaming would have traveled very far.

It's fairly obvious that crazy old Nara never heard Meredith screaming.

First I agree Nara didn't hear anything, she got confused by the cub reporter Fois who convinced her she heard something. My speculation, based on the fact she's crazy, half deaf, and her reported memories all seemed tied to news releases, and her lateness in coming forward. She's full of crap, imo.

Second, you're making a lot of assumptions, and you're welcome to find them convincing, I'm not sure I do. "Sound dampening Shrubbery"? Am I crazy or does everything sound like a Monty Python skit?

I think one key question is not only the acoustics of Meredith screaming, but what other environmental noise was there at that time of day, on a holiday weekend, on a sparsely populated part of town popular with drug addicts because of its seclusion?

I think you're making a lot of assumptions without any actual basis in acoustic data, right? I mean you're just inventing your objection, and then saying you're being reasonable.

Good job on pulling up the times at issue, I think that's really good info. I want to go back and double check, because I was under the impression the times of people looking around were closer to 9:15 - 9:25, but I haven't seen it in a while. If the times you cited are correct, that's interesting, because it pushes the time Rudy has to go downstairs (which I'm convinced happened), and Rudy still has to get to Lana's garden at 10:15 or so to call Meredith's bank & toss the phones.

However, there's no telling how long Rudy remained in the toilet after Meredith came home. What means do we have to time stamp those events? These times, even if true, don't exclude the scenario I've provided, again, MOO.

As for Meredith screaming for 8 minutes (if that's the correct duration from the Oggi tape showing people looking at the cottage), isn't that the whole scenario I've laid out? That Meredith panicking and screaming forces Rudy to escalate to try to control her. We know she fought for hard for some period of time because she had extensive bruising on her body. She fought like hell, and that doesn't sound like an assault that's over quickly.

The violence to her mouth area, like she had been violently punched in the mouth (didn't she even have chipped teeth?), what's that about? I think it shows prolonged building rage from Rudy, not a fast attack.

Rudy's previous incidents in getting busted in the act, by Christian T and at the Milan nursery, were all relatively polite. Rudy asked Christian to open the door for him so he could leave. Meredith prolonged screaming in panic at the top of her lungs would be a new experience for Rudy.

None of this means I'm right, and you're version is wrong. Or vice-versa.

But having the police try to contact the people at the garage could answer the question of what they were looking at. Also, I think its bizarre that none of those people tried to contact the police on their own to give a statement. Don't they know they were at the scene of a brutal crime and they saw something that caught their attention? Unless what caught their attention was visible maybe? I don't know, I just think its odd the police didn't look further into it if they had that CCTV tape.

All I can say, is that Meredith's sustained screaming seems to me to be supported by the evidence of her bruising, and the knife cuts to her face apparently used to try and control her. If she were trapped in her room and yelling the whole time, I could imagine Rudy would be pretty worked up by the time he finally got into her room and could get to her.

I guess my complaint, is making "theoretical" assumptions, and then concluding those assumptions must be true. Obviously feel free to continue, and please don't be offended if I can't buy into it.

But thanks for engaging and responding.

 

[Numbers]

....
I think one key question is not only the acoustics of Meredith screaming, but what other environmental noise was there at that time of day, on a holiday weekend, on a sparsely populated part of town popular with drug addicts because of its seclusion?

....
Good job on pulling up the times at issue, I think that's really good info. I want to go back and double check, because I was under the impression the times of people looking around were closer to 9:15 - 9:25, but I haven't seen it in a while. If the times you cited are correct, that's interesting, because it pushes the time Rudy has to go downstairs (which I'm convinced happened), and Rudy still has to get to Lana's garden at 10:15 or so to call Meredith's bank & toss the phones.

....

Here's a point that hasn't been considered. All those people in the parking ramp during the relevant time interval were turning to face the entrance to the ramp, which would be the direction generally toward the cottage.

It's been suggested that they were simply looking at one or more cars entering (or leaving?). What could be useful would be to examine one or more control sections of CCTV footage from other time periods. Do the individuals visible in those control sections also look toward the ramp entrance? Is that routine behavior?

But here's another point. The people shown in the Oggi CCTV footage may or may not have been looking toward a noise from the cottage. But the failure of the police to interview them or seek them out is telling, to me. Because when the police and prosecutor rely on "convenient suspects" on whom they intend to use official misconduct to show guilt, there isn't any strong need to interview all the possible witnesses.

 

[whoanellie]

Don't know if this is behind paywall.
www.jaapl.org/content/27/2/227.full.pdf

Sexual Burglaries and Sexual Homicide: Clinical, Forensic, and Investigative
Considerations
Louis B. Schlesinger, PhD, and Eugene Revitch, MD
Burglary, the third most common crime after larceny-theft and motor vehicle theft, is rarely the focus of forensic psychiatric study. While most burglaries are motivated simply by material gain, there is a subgroup of burglaries fueled by sexual dynamics. The authors differentiate two types of sexual burglaries: 1) fetish burglaries with overt sexual dynamics; and 2) voyeuristic burglaries, in which the sexual element is often covert and far more subtle. Many forensic practitioners have informally noted the relationship of burglaries to sexual homicide, but this relationship has not otherwise been studied in any detail. In this article, the incidence of (sexual) burglaries by 52 sexual murderers whom the authors evaluated, as well as the incidence in cases reported by others, is reported. Implications of these findings for forensic assessments and profiling of unidentified offenders are discussed.

 

[Bill Williams]

Is there anyone in Italy, independent of Mignini, who is trumpeting that the March 2015 ISC ruling was illegal? By "independent", I do not mean Machiavelli who is tweeting Mignini's views, without citing Mignini. There are other posters who say this is all over Italian TV.

Inquiring mind want to know.

 

[Ken Dine]

Welcome back Andreajo. Not sure where we're not in agreement here.
I'm just thinking if Rudy could have gotten hard, he would have stuck it in. But he didn't, or wasn't able to complete if he did. I think its a mistake to equate "level of arousal" with an ability to get hard. Its not like he's pulling out to squirt on the pillow as an attempt at birth control.

Pretty gruesome scene, plus who knows what makes Rudy tick really. Covering the body with the duvet seems to indicate some level of awareness and regret, he's not completely a zombie killer.

I think we agree on the major lines, Rudy only thinks about sexual assault after Meredith is already mortally wounded and unable to further resist.

It's my understanding that Meredith was having a period when killed and that the autopsy had found her still wearing a tampon, which may explain why Guede didn't fully rape her.

As for Guede escaping once Meredith returned home, going thru the broken window in a rush would seem foolhardy. A better exit would have been via the patio doors and jump down from there, but Meredith may have spotted him before that, so he decided to kill the witness.

Also, there's no evidence that Guede was on the toilet when Meredith arrived home. Guede obviously had used the toilet at some point, but it may have been after the murder?

In any event, at some point poor Meredith surprised Guede somewhere in the cottage, and things quickly went downhill from there.

OJ Simpson quickly killed two adults (ex-wife Nicole Simpson & Ron Goldman) with a knife on her condo's front steps, and not one of her many neighbors heard a peep. Experts testified that OJ's deadly attack probably lasted under a minute.

Nicole Simpson & Ron Goldman likely were killed without much noise since they were both surprised and they never had much of a chance to react, shout or scream.

OJ likely walked up to them with the knife behind his back ...OJ may even have been smiling as he approached them. OJ would have likely stabbed unsuspecting Ron Goldman first, and Nicole likely had a short opportunity to scream, but she may have been frozen in disbelief at what she was witnessing?

Since she knew him by sight, Meredith would have been initially confused by finding Guede in her cottage. E.g., was Guede Amanda's invited guest? As Meredith likely tried sorting out why Guede was there, Guede suddenly attacked, so Meredith was surely incapacitated rather quickly.

 

[Dougm]

It's my understanding that Meredith was having a period when killed and that the autopsy had found her still wearing a tampon, which may explain why Guede didn't fully rape her.

As for Guede escaping once Meredith returned home, going thru the broken window in a rush would seem foolhardy. A better exit would have been via the patio doors and jump down from there, but Meredith may have spotted him before that, so he decided to kill the witness.

Also, there's no evidence that Guede was on the toilet when Meredith arrived home. Guede obviously had used the toilet at some point, but it may have been after the murder?

In any event, at some point poor Meredith surprised Guede somewhere in the cottage, and things quickly went downhill from there.

OJ Simpson quickly killed two adults (ex-wife Nicole Simpson & Ron Goldman) with a knife on her condo's front steps, and not one of her many neighbors heard a peep. Experts testified that OJ's deadly attack probably lasted under a minute.

Nicole Simpson & Ron Goldman likely were killed without much noise since they were both surprised and they never had much of a chance to react, shout or scream.

OJ likely walked up to them with the knife behind his back ...OJ may even have been smiling as he approached them. OJ would have likely stabbed unsuspecting Ron Goldman first, and Nicole likely had a short opportunity to scream, but she may have been frozen in disbelief at what she was witnessing?

Since she knew him by sight, Meredith would have been initially confused by finding Guede in her cottage. E.g., was Guede Amanda's invited guest? As Meredith likely tried sorting out why Guede was there, Guede suddenly attacked, so Meredith was surely incapacitated rather quickly.

Sorry, but not much of this makes sense to me.

* You are proposing that Rudy killed Meredith simply because she found him inside her apartment. Why? Rudy had been caught inside places that he didn't belong before, and the cops let him go. So he viciously punctured her throat so he wouldn't be accused of a minor burglary? I don't think so.
* You say there is no evidence that Rudy was on the toilet when Meredith came home. It's not proven, but why didn't Rudy flush? He claims he got up and did not flush because he heard Meredith being attacked. It seems much more likely he either jumped up because Meredith came home, or he didn't flush to avoid being discovered. Why would he use the toilet after the murder, and leave his biological evidence by not flushing?
* The OJ Simpson case is a very different case. OJ did kill two people violently by himself, but he had a history of violent rages and jealously involving Nicole and other men. I see no similarity with Rudy, other than my speculation that something happened to send him into a rage, a la OJ. But with OJ, we are pretty sure we know what that thing was, but with Rudy, it is more of a mystery.

I find it a mystery why he killed her, discovered or not. Just because she came home and found him there, that seems hardly a reason for violent homicide. Something else must have happened, IMO.

 

[Dougm]

Is there anyone in Italy, independent of Mignini, who is trumpeting that the March 2015 ISC ruling was illegal? By "independent", I do not mean Machiavelli who is tweeting Mignini's views, without citing Mignini. There are other posters who say this is all over Italian TV.

Inquiring mind want to know.

Are any of the "other posters" people who have had rational, logical posts about this case in the past?

I think not. And I think you have your answer.

 

[Grinder]

She was naked in a pool of blood, her clothes were stripped from her by force, cuts and bruises all over her body, DNA from the suspect inside her vagina, a semen stain between her legs...but there was no sign of rape according to the "experts". The experts also said that covering the dead victim with a blanket was an indication of a female attacker. Do you believe that?

Police found Meredith on her bed covered by a duvet and wearing only a T-shirt, her throat cut by a sharp object or knife thrust just once in an upward motion with great force. There was no evidence of a sexual attack, said Chiacchiera, who added that the killer may have entered the bedroom by a window before leaving by the front door, stopping to wash off blood in the bathroom, where blood traces were found.

 

[Grinder]

I don't think he went clubbing to enjoy himself. I think he went clubbing in a desperate attempt to have people see him out elsewhere in public, so he could claim he wasn't there. I think a day or so later the idea sunk in that the cops were sure to find DNA, prints, etc. that would tie him to the cottage, so he took off for Germany.

I agree about the dancing and would add that he needed any distraction at that point no matter how the murder exactly went down.

I don't recall any specifics of what he did the next two days before leaving. Maybe he wanted to go with Koko to Albania.

 

[Grinder]

I don't think that these stories should be used in any way as convicting evidence that Rudy killed Meredith. I'm assuming that there is already plenty of evidence PROVING his culpability. I see this as a discussion of why Rudy killed Meredith.

There is plenty of evidence that he was present when she was killed.

In any sense, it is Rudy"s killing of Meredith that makes these incidents probably true, not the other way around. If there was not overwhelming evidence that Rudy killed Meredith, I would dismiss this out of hand as not worthy of discussion.

Did you find this next to circular reasoning in the dictionary?

Most burglars do not kill and try and avoid any possible confrontations. Rudy taking the knife from the kitchen of Ms Prato means he was preparing for a possible confrontation. Rudy seems almost itching for the kill maybe.

Since you dismiss any chance that he did spend the night at the nursery after being tipped to it, that might skew your thoughts. I think he was sleeping there and took the knife to be ready in case his tipster or another came in during the night. By hiding the knife in the pack he could retrieve it if confronted by thugs.

The most important aspect of the knife is that he have one of his own. What happened to the knife from the CT caper?

 

[Bill Williams]

Is there anyone in Italy, independent of Mignini, who is trumpeting that the March 2015 ISC ruling was illegal? By "independent", I do not mean Machiavelli who is tweeting Mignini's views, without citing Mignini. There are other posters who say this is all over Italian TV.

Inquiring mind want to know.

Are any of the "other posters" people who have had rational, logical posts about this case in the past?

I think not. And I think you have your answer.

Perhaps. I just wanted to know if anyone else other than the usual suspects were claiming this?

Particularly, where is the hue and cry in Italy? Where the media? In the week before the March 27 2015 exonerations, the media seemed saturated with Raffaele's story - some matching him with Italian-guilters. Where are those guilters now?

Surely if they knew that Marasca/Bruno was going to be reversed, they'd risk saying something. Crickets.