Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Thanks for the info.

The text of Mignini's beef against Maori and the journalist shows, if nothing else, the brilliant way Mignini used his knowledge of **legal process** to milk this thing for all it's worth. To milk this thing even thought there was a paucity of actual evidence - he **almost** got away with convicting Sollecito and Knox on purely judicially-driven truths; not truths which arose because of actual evidence. Look at the text of his beef with Maori as h reagues a now discreditd case - the break-in was a staging because Mignini himself, and others, ye-baled it and declared it to be so. Nothing more.

High on this list of manipulating the process is the way Rudy's process was handled. Machiavelli, when he was posting here, complained that it was unfair to blame Mignini for what was, essentially, Rudy's decision to go "fast track". Yet both he and Mignini know it is not that simple.

Like keeping Lumumba around so that Knox's "confession" would be heard by the same judge-panel concurrent with the murder charges; allowing Rudy to go "fast track" generates judicial truths....

.... from a process described best as, "a regular set of trials with the evidence-phase missing". All the evidence is, essentially, a set of stipulations - and the truth of any one item of evidence is completely beside the point. So it is, for instance, "multiple attackers" can be set in stone - not because the evidence suggests it (there is none at fast track trial)....

..... but because it is in the interests of both sides in Rudy's process to stipulate to it. Witness the birth of a judicial fact.

Early on Mignini played the process like a pro - and it **almost** made up for the lack of evidence. Almost. It required judges like Massei and Nencini to literally make-stuff-up so that all these judicial-truths would line up - more judicial truths generated though sheer speculation and fantasy.

Based on some powerful hints from Carlofab*, who posted on IIP, I have come to the conclusion (my opinion, of course) that Mignini's suit, as written, would not be accepted by the lower court, because it explicitly challenges a CSC verdict by a prosecutor, a member of the judiciary - where the motivation report hasn't even been published yet. Here are more details on my opinion on this:

The lower court cannot, of course, set aside the verdict of the CSC or challenge it.

Furthermore, the lower court cannot accept Mignini's suit as written, in my opinion of how a wise lower court would conduct itself. They would point out to Mignini, in rejecting his suit, that he has presumed to analyze the Marasca CSC panel verdict before the motivation report has been issued, and that is not acceptable, especially considering that a prosecutor in Italy is a member of the judiciary. IMO they would ask him to refile the suit, if he wishes to, after the Marasca CSC panel motivation report is filed, and to conform the language of his suit to account for the legal considerations of that motivation report. And the lower court would instruct him that, should his views of the law differ from that of the Marasca CSC panel or the Chieffi CSC panel, he must make clear in the language of his suit that that is his personal opinion or interpretation of the law, that he is responsible for those views, and that they are not settled law. That is, if Mignini states in his suit that the Marasca CSC panel is violating Italian procedural law, the lower court would implicitly indicate to Mignini that Mignini must bear responsibility for any defamation counter-suit (including from Marasca and the CSC panel of judges, or action by the Supreme Council of the Judiciary) and the lower court does not endorse his views. Again, this is my non-lawyer's view of how a sensible lower court would proceed; Italian reality may be different.

ETA: * and others, including carbonjam72 & roteoctober
 
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:)
That seems pretty clear.

I don't completely agree with the logic, but your conclusion appears to be exactly correct. I found this in the Micheli sentencing report:
A simple way to look at this is that Guede had two bites at the fast track bonus apple. Once from the trial where he went from a "life" sentence to a 30 year sentence and secondly when he went from a 24 year sentence to a 16 year sentence.

But you don't agree. I think your point is that Guede had a single bite from two different apples and the bite from the appeals court fast track apple over rode his bite from the trial fast track apple. I am not completely convinced of this but it's close enough.

So to get back to the thing I was trying to understand when I started asking questions about Guede's sentencing: It looks like the appeals court was completely responsible for the major reduction in Guede's sentence. Micheli gave Guede the maximum sentence he could. I think several people have said approximately that but the underlying facts about Guede's sentencing confused me (obviously) and I wasn't sure they were right.

Every defendant has an automatic appeal if found guilty at 1st instance. Remember, Guede was following a fast track - so he is always processed according to fast track rules in matters of sentencing. So, for clarity, let's change the numbers, so that his first gross sentence is a number and not an unquantified concept (life): If, in his first trial Guede had been sentenced to 24 years, his actual sentence after the 1st instance trial would have been 16 years. Then, if on appeal, the 2nd instance court had said, "No, 24 years is too high. We will reduce it to 21 years", what this would mean is that his sentence would have been discounted to 14 years. So, actually, Guede has had two bites at the same apple, (as all defendants do, including Amanda), but not the benefit of two discounts. He gets one discount, applied to his final sentence.

In my example, in order for Guede to receive two discounts, then the 2nd instance court would have taken as their starting position the sentence of 16 years, not 24 years, or at least a number lower than 24. The confusion, based on what actually happened, arises because the 1st instance gross sentence is not a number; its life. When the 2nd instance court reduced Guede's sentence from the gross (life) to 24 years, the new gross sentence was lower at 24 years than the discounted sentence of 30 years applied by the 1st instance court. The maths goes awry because the application of the discount at 1st instance is an arbitrary "calculation" - because one of the inputs (life), is not a number.
 
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That FG Davies barrister guy who has been writing the "Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher" essays has turned out to be a real idiot. He started off great rubbishing Massei and then went downhill around Part 13.

He's written quite a few times the break-in was staged but given no reason why he thinks that. He also seems hooked on the "strange behavior" and Amanda's 12.47pm call to her mum. What's strange about a 20 year old girl in a foreign country calling her mum and saying there's been a break-in and she'll call back? He said in Part 24 their behavior was so strange they both should have been given a psychological evaluation after they were arrested.

The thing I've noticed about this guy is while he's done extensive research, he's only based his opinions on the motivation reports and Galati-Costagliola appeal translated by the guilters, and NOT ALSO the trial transcripts and appeal documents. So I think he's been duped a little.

Here's part 25. Tell me what you think....

The Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher: A Search For The Truth – Part 25

Conclusions

Summary
Beginning with Guede, when looked at individually and as a whole, the various elements of circumstantial evidence were of such quality and quantity, the finding that he had digitally raped and murdered Meredith Kercher was proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Various inferences could safely be drawn eg, his false explanation for his presence at the cottage; the forensic and biological traces left by him in the house, particularly on Meredith and in Meredith’s bedroom (the killing zone); his flight from the apartment after the murder; his decision to travel to Germany to escape detection and arrest; his disposal of incriminating articles; the content of his pre-trial declarations and, his decision not to testify, from which an inference of guilt could safely be drawn. The case against Guede was singularly overwhelming. He was motivated to commit the crimes, his presence was undeniable and he had the means with which to subdue, rape and kill Meredith Kercher. As previously noted, at his fast-track trial, although the participation of others could not be ruled out, Micheli erred when it made a binding adjudication to that effect. It was also regrettable and bewildering that Micheli failed to deduce Guede was carrying a bladed article which, was used by him to subdue and stab Meredith Kercher, during a progressive, savage and unremitting attack.

In respect of Sollecito, when one considers each and every component, either individually or as a whole, the quality and quantity of the circumstantial evidence was less than convincing. The motivations for the crime were shrouded in mystery. No reliable or credible eye-witness testimony to confirm his presence at the material time. Suspicious behaviour yes and, an economy with the truth as to his activities, or more likely, Knox’s movements and deeds that fateful day. The main focus of attention inevitably centred on the genetic and biological traces found inside the cottage. There was the bloody footprint found on the sky blue mat in the small bathroom. This element, posited by Rinaldi and Boemia as “probable identity” was just as suggestive, if it was indeed his footprint, that he visited the cottage some time later that evening ie, after the crime had already been committed. Another crucial element was the Double DNA Knife sequestered from Corso Garibaldi. The probative value of this piece of evidence will be considered shortly.

The only biological element signifying Sollecito’s physical presence in the “killing zone” (Meredith’s bedroom) at the time she was killed was the trace found on the bra hook. Successive courts struggled to come to terms with the fact that there was a paucity of genetic traces at the prosecution’s behest to demonstrate that Sollecito had participated in the attack upon Meredith Kercher. If Sollecito, as contended, had helped subdue poor Meredith, cut her bra strap with a pocket knife and then at close quarters stabbed her, it was a racing certainty his DNA traces would have been found inside the bedroom eg, on Meredith’s clothing, and similarly on the clothes he was wearing that night. No such traces were ever found; nor did the prosecution detect or introduce fingerprint evidence as an alternate means to establish Sollecito’s presence in Meredith’s bedroom. Given the paucity of forensic traces one can only postulate, therefore, that Sollecito’s presence at the scene of the crime was, at best, post delictum i.e. at some time after the murder. On the assumption it was indeed Sollecito’s DNA on Exhibit 165b, it is reasonable to suppose that he (later) picked up the same to examine it out of a sense of morbid curiosity.

In retrospect, the evidence disclosed a reasonable doubt as to Sollecito’s complicity in Meredith’s digital rape and murder. He lacked a motive for the crime, his presence in the cottage at the material time could not be conclusively established and, he lacked the means with which to commit the crime, judging by the description of the knife wounds found on Meredith’s body and the bloody outline of a knife print found on the pillow in Meredith’s bedroom. Put another way, the circumstantial evidence lacked sufficient weight, precision and concordance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty of digital rape, murder, possession of the Double DNA Knife and, theft of the mobile phones. The charge of simulation will be considered shortly, in tandem with Knox’s case.

As for Knox, when one considers each and every component either singularly and/or in combination, the evidence did not create a complete framework because there were gaps or incongruities which discounted the attribution of the substantive crimes to her. For one, she lacked motive. True, there was evidence to show that she was present at the cottage during the temporal period when poor Meredith was digitally raped and killed. But in Knox’s case, analogous to Sollecito, the quantity and probative value of the mixed biological traces to establish her complicity for digital rape and murder was also tenuous. This could not be explained away by reference to a systematic and thorough cleansing of the apartment, ex post facto. If Massei and Nencini’s premise was correct i.e. Knox and Sollecito had participated in the attack upon Meredith, they did not possess the cleaning materials or the scientific knowledge to conceal or remove their genetic traces from the house, especially in Meredith’s bedroom and/or the small bathroom.

Essentially, the only evidence which could conclusively establish Knox’s presence in Meredith’s bedroom at the time of the attack was the Double DNA Knife (Exhibit 36). The probative value of the traces found on the Knife was subsequently described by Nencini as “not reassuring”. The remainder of the genetic elements e.g. the mixed traces found in the small bathroom were just as consistent with Knox entering Meredith’s bedroom after Guede had left Via della Pergola 7 and inadvertently (later) carrying them into the small bathroom. This deduction, similar to Sollecito, is derived from the fact that no other traces of Knox’s DNA were ever found in the killing zone, upon Meredith’s clothing or upon Knox’s clothing. To recapitulate, if Knox had struck the fatal blow to Meredith’s left side of her neck, Knox’s DNA would assuredly have been found inside the bedroom, especially on Meredith’s clothing. It would have been impossible for Knox and Sollecito to have disguised or excluded their presence by some form of clean-up and, without interfering with Guede’s traces. They did not possess the expertise to achieve this objective; and, if they did, this does not explain the traces found in the small bathroom. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion one can derive from the forensic traces detected, is that there is a reasonable doubt Knox participated in the digital rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.

To bolster this judgment, the author also places reliance on two other factors. First, the bloody outline on Meredith’s pillow was suggestive of a knife with different dimensions from Exhibit 36 and, the pocket knife apparently used by Sollecito to cut Meredith’s bra strap etc. Secondly, having regard to the evidence of the eight consultants as to the description of the knife (or knives) which inflicted the injuries to Meredith’s neck, the only rational explanation is that the Double DNA Knife was not the murder weapon. And, for the sake of completeness, assuming Meredith’s traces were found on Exhibit 36 those traces were a by-product of contamination, as Professor Vecchiotti and Professor Conti later concluded.

To summarize, therefore, Knox lacked a sufficient motive to digitally rape and murder Meredith Kercher. The mere fact that she was present inside the cottage at the material time did not prove that she participated in the crime. It was suggestive that she was present at the cottage for an ulterior reason and her actions thereafter betrayed those motivations. Finally, the totality of the genetic traces found inside the cottage and, on the Double DNA Knife, did not conclusively prove that she participated in the attack upon poor Meredith. Expressed another way, there were gaps or incongruities in the framework of evidence. As we have just seen the circumstantial evidence lacked sufficient weight, precision and concordance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Knox was guilty of digital rape, murder, possession of the Double DNA Knife and, theft of the mobile phones.

The author anticipates an attack upon this judgment based upon several other components of the circumstantial evidence. Lest one forgets the reasonable onlooker is bound to ask, if Knox was truly innocent of the crimes attributed to her (and Sollecito) why lie about her movements and activities that fateful evening? The answer lies in the criminal conduct and motivations of Knox which was unrelated to Guede’s lustful impulses and sexual instincts, after he had gained admittance to Via della Pergola 7.

Lest we forget, however, the alternative hypothesis which follows shortly, discloses that both Sollecito and Knox lied about their movements and activities that fateful night. Judged by US Federal law, they were guilty of obstructing justice; by English law, they were certainly guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Based on those lies it is almost certain they were responsible for and guilty of simulating a burglary. As the author has already concluded, Knox was also guilty of Calunnia. In the final analysis, Knox and Sollecito’s calculating and callous behaviour, disrespectful of the memory of poor Meredith, evidenced by their repeated lies or half-truths vindicated a sentence of imprisonment for both; but not 25 years and 28 years and six months, respectively.

The writer has forged his own synthesis as to the horrific events which transpired during November 1-2, 2007. The scenario is derived almost entirely from the evidence and the findings made by successive Italian Courts. As we have already seen, in retrospect, Hellmann unwisely declined to set out or elucidate as to what transpired on that fateful day. By contrast, the author is prepared to set out his thesis. So here goes.

Final part next week
 
Has this author seen Dr Gill's new Book on DNA, and read the chapter on this case?

That FG Davies barrister guy who has been writing the "Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher" essays has turned out to be a real idiot. He started off great rubbishing Massei and then went downhill around Part 13.

He's written quite a few times the break-in was staged but given no reason why he thinks that. He also seems hooked on the "strange behavior" and Amanda's 12.47pm call to her mum. What's strange about a 20 year old girl in a foreign country calling her mum and saying there's been a break-in and she'll call back? He said in Part 24 their behavior was so strange they both should have been given a psychological evaluation after they were arrested.

The thing I've noticed about this guy is while he's done extensive research, he's only based his opinions on the motivation reports and Galati-Costagliola appeal translated by the guilters, and NOT ALSO the trial transcripts and appeal documents. So I think he's been duped a little.

Here's part 25. Tell me what you think....

The Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher: A Search For The Truth – Part 25

Conclusions

Summary
Beginning with Guede, when looked at individually and as a whole, the various elements of circumstantial evidence were of such quality and quantity, the finding that he had digitally raped and murdered Meredith Kercher was proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Various inferences could safely be drawn eg, his false explanation for his presence at the cottage; the forensic and biological traces left by him in the house, particularly on Meredith and in Meredith’s bedroom (the killing zone); his flight from the apartment after the murder; his decision to travel to Germany to escape detection and arrest; his disposal of incriminating articles; the content of his pre-trial declarations and, his decision not to testify, from which an inference of guilt could safely be drawn. The case against Guede was singularly overwhelming. He was motivated to commit the crimes, his presence was undeniable and he had the means with which to subdue, rape and kill Meredith Kercher. As previously noted, at his fast-track trial, although the participation of others could not be ruled out, Micheli erred when it made a binding adjudication to that effect. It was also regrettable and bewildering that Micheli failed to deduce Guede was carrying a bladed article which, was used by him to subdue and stab Meredith Kercher, during a progressive, savage and unremitting attack.

In respect of Sollecito, when one considers each and every component, either individually or as a whole, the quality and quantity of the circumstantial evidence was less than convincing. The motivations for the crime were shrouded in mystery. No reliable or credible eye-witness testimony to confirm his presence at the material time. Suspicious behaviour yes and, an economy with the truth as to his activities, or more likely, Knox’s movements and deeds that fateful day. The main focus of attention inevitably centred on the genetic and biological traces found inside the cottage. There was the bloody footprint found on the sky blue mat in the small bathroom. This element, posited by Rinaldi and Boemia as “probable identity” was just as suggestive, if it was indeed his footprint, that he visited the cottage some time later that evening ie, after the crime had already been committed. Another crucial element was the Double DNA Knife sequestered from Corso Garibaldi. The probative value of this piece of evidence will be considered shortly.

The only biological element signifying Sollecito’s physical presence in the “killing zone” (Meredith’s bedroom) at the time she was killed was the trace found on the bra hook. Successive courts struggled to come to terms with the fact that there was a paucity of genetic traces at the prosecution’s behest to demonstrate that Sollecito had participated in the attack upon Meredith Kercher. If Sollecito, as contended, had helped subdue poor Meredith, cut her bra strap with a pocket knife and then at close quarters stabbed her, it was a racing certainty his DNA traces would have been found inside the bedroom eg, on Meredith’s clothing, and similarly on the clothes he was wearing that night. No such traces were ever found; nor did the prosecution detect or introduce fingerprint evidence as an alternate means to establish Sollecito’s presence in Meredith’s bedroom. Given the paucity of forensic traces one can only postulate, therefore, that Sollecito’s presence at the scene of the crime was, at best, post delictum i.e. at some time after the murder. On the assumption it was indeed Sollecito’s DNA on Exhibit 165b, it is reasonable to suppose that he (later) picked up the same to examine it out of a sense of morbid curiosity.

In retrospect, the evidence disclosed a reasonable doubt as to Sollecito’s complicity in Meredith’s digital rape and murder. He lacked a motive for the crime, his presence in the cottage at the material time could not be conclusively established and, he lacked the means with which to commit the crime, judging by the description of the knife wounds found on Meredith’s body and the bloody outline of a knife print found on the pillow in Meredith’s bedroom. Put another way, the circumstantial evidence lacked sufficient weight, precision and concordance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty of digital rape, murder, possession of the Double DNA Knife and, theft of the mobile phones. The charge of simulation will be considered shortly, in tandem with Knox’s case.

As for Knox, when one considers each and every component either singularly and/or in combination, the evidence did not create a complete framework because there were gaps or incongruities which discounted the attribution of the substantive crimes to her. For one, she lacked motive. True, there was evidence to show that she was present at the cottage during the temporal period when poor Meredith was digitally raped and killed. But in Knox’s case, analogous to Sollecito, the quantity and probative value of the mixed biological traces to establish her complicity for digital rape and murder was also tenuous. This could not be explained away by reference to a systematic and thorough cleansing of the apartment, ex post facto. If Massei and Nencini’s premise was correct i.e. Knox and Sollecito had participated in the attack upon Meredith, they did not possess the cleaning materials or the scientific knowledge to conceal or remove their genetic traces from the house, especially in Meredith’s bedroom and/or the small bathroom.

Essentially, the only evidence which could conclusively establish Knox’s presence in Meredith’s bedroom at the time of the attack was the Double DNA Knife (Exhibit 36). The probative value of the traces found on the Knife was subsequently described by Nencini as “not reassuring”. The remainder of the genetic elements e.g. the mixed traces found in the small bathroom were just as consistent with Knox entering Meredith’s bedroom after Guede had left Via della Pergola 7 and inadvertently (later) carrying them into the small bathroom. This deduction, similar to Sollecito, is derived from the fact that no other traces of Knox’s DNA were ever found in the killing zone, upon Meredith’s clothing or upon Knox’s clothing. To recapitulate, if Knox had struck the fatal blow to Meredith’s left side of her neck, Knox’s DNA would assuredly have been found inside the bedroom, especially on Meredith’s clothing. It would have been impossible for Knox and Sollecito to have disguised or excluded their presence by some form of clean-up and, without interfering with Guede’s traces. They did not possess the expertise to achieve this objective; and, if they did, this does not explain the traces found in the small bathroom. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion one can derive from the forensic traces detected, is that there is a reasonable doubt Knox participated in the digital rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.

To bolster this judgment, the author also places reliance on two other factors. First, the bloody outline on Meredith’s pillow was suggestive of a knife with different dimensions from Exhibit 36 and, the pocket knife apparently used by Sollecito to cut Meredith’s bra strap etc. Secondly, having regard to the evidence of the eight consultants as to the description of the knife (or knives) which inflicted the injuries to Meredith’s neck, the only rational explanation is that the Double DNA Knife was not the murder weapon. And, for the sake of completeness, assuming Meredith’s traces were found on Exhibit 36 those traces were a by-product of contamination, as Professor Vecchiotti and Professor Conti later concluded.

To summarize, therefore, Knox lacked a sufficient motive to digitally rape and murder Meredith Kercher. The mere fact that she was present inside the cottage at the material time did not prove that she participated in the crime. It was suggestive that she was present at the cottage for an ulterior reason and her actions thereafter betrayed those motivations. Finally, the totality of the genetic traces found inside the cottage and, on the Double DNA Knife, did not conclusively prove that she participated in the attack upon poor Meredith. Expressed another way, there were gaps or incongruities in the framework of evidence. As we have just seen the circumstantial evidence lacked sufficient weight, precision and concordance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Knox was guilty of digital rape, murder, possession of the Double DNA Knife and, theft of the mobile phones.

The author anticipates an attack upon this judgment based upon several other components of the circumstantial evidence. Lest one forgets the reasonable onlooker is bound to ask, if Knox was truly innocent of the crimes attributed to her (and Sollecito) why lie about her movements and activities that fateful evening? The answer lies in the criminal conduct and motivations of Knox which was unrelated to Guede’s lustful impulses and sexual instincts, after he had gained admittance to Via della Pergola 7.

Lest we forget, however, the alternative hypothesis which follows shortly, discloses that both Sollecito and Knox lied about their movements and activities that fateful night. Judged by US Federal law, they were guilty of obstructing justice; by English law, they were certainly guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Based on those lies it is almost certain they were responsible for and guilty of simulating a burglary. As the author has already concluded, Knox was also guilty of Calunnia. In the final analysis, Knox and Sollecito’s calculating and callous behaviour, disrespectful of the memory of poor Meredith, evidenced by their repeated lies or half-truths vindicated a sentence of imprisonment for both; but not 25 years and 28 years and six months, respectively.

The writer has forged his own synthesis as to the horrific events which transpired during November 1-2, 2007. The scenario is derived almost entirely from the evidence and the findings made by successive Italian Courts. As we have already seen, in retrospect, Hellmann unwisely declined to set out or elucidate as to what transpired on that fateful day. By contrast, the author is prepared to set out his thesis. So here goes.

Final part next week

Thanks MichaelB, this was an interesting read. Are the other sections available to see, or lurking behind a pay-wall?

It would also be interesting to see if the lawyer-author is open to feedback on his analysis, and might even consider stopping by here to have his ideas road tested.

Concerning the errors I see, the first seems to be that he doesn't have an accurate grasp of the DNA evidence, and its probative value. He repeatedly overestimates the probative value of DNA, which he erroneously uses to try to date Amanda and Raf's presence at the time and scene of the crime.

He also fails to recognize the presence of multiple male (2-4) contributors to the bra clasp, yet recklessly speculates that Raf picked it up "out of morbid curiosity" after the crime. So that should be a tip off that the author isn't playing with a full deck of cards.

He makes the same error with respect to trying to use DNA found in a shared bathroom, to date Amanda's presence in the house at the time of the crime. He also doesn't seem to be aware of the crime scene collection where police reused cotton swabs to test multiple locations for DNA in the bathroom, so there's no way to tell if the DNA traces found were mixed before or after collection.

One wonders if he has seen Dr Peter Gill's new book, it might have helped him.

The last and probably most galling aspect, is his willingness to attribute the confused statements of both Amanda and Raf as "lies", without considering the circumstances under which these statements were extracted, and indeed coerced.

Similarly, his obsession with what he views as insufficiently serious behavior from Amanda and Raf, seems to be the emotional basis for justifying imprisonment of 4 years each. For him that seems to be justice. For this reason, I have to say I think he's a complete jackass. It shows a degree of bias in his analysis that cannot be overcome with reason.

The possibility that Amanda and Raf never left their apartment that night, and the only time they said anything different is when the police coerced false statements from them, appears to be beyond his ken.

It would be interesting though, to raise some of these issues with him directly, and see if he has any ability to reevaluate his beliefs.
 
That FG Davies barrister guy who has been writing the "Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher" essays has turned out to be a real idiot. He started off great rubbishing Massei and then went downhill around Part 13.

He's written quite a few times the break-in was staged but given no reason why he thinks that. He also seems hooked on the "strange behavior" and Amanda's 12.47pm call to her mum. What's strange about a 20 year old girl in a foreign country calling her mum and saying there's been a break-in and she'll call back? He said in Part 24 their behavior was so strange they both should have been given a psychological evaluation after they were arrested.

The thing I've noticed about this guy is while he's done extensive research, he's only based his opinions on the motivation reports and Galati-Costagliola appeal translated by the guilters, and NOT ALSO the trial transcripts and appeal documents. So I think he's been duped a little.

Here's part 25. Tell me what you think....

The Brutal Killing of Meredith Kercher: A Search For The Truth – Part 25

Conclusions

Summary
Beginning with Guede, when looked at individually and as a whole, the various elements of circumstantial evidence were of such quality and quantity, the finding that he had digitally raped and murdered Meredith Kercher was proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Various inferences could safely be drawn eg, his false explanation for his presence at the cottage; the forensic and biological traces left by him in the house, particularly on Meredith and in Meredith’s bedroom (the killing zone); his flight from the apartment after the murder; his decision to travel to Germany to escape detection and arrest; his disposal of incriminating articles; the content of his pre-trial declarations and, his decision not to testify, from which an inference of guilt could safely be drawn. The case against Guede was singularly overwhelming. He was motivated to commit the crimes, his presence was undeniable and he had the means with which to subdue, rape and kill Meredith Kercher. As previously noted, at his fast-track trial, although the participation of others could not be ruled out, Micheli erred when it made a binding adjudication to that effect. It was also regrettable and bewildering that Micheli failed to deduce Guede was carrying a bladed article which, was used by him to subdue and stab Meredith Kercher, during a progressive, savage and unremitting attack.

In respect of Sollecito, when one considers each and every component, either individually or as a whole, the quality and quantity of the circumstantial evidence was less than convincing. The motivations for the crime were shrouded in mystery. No reliable or credible eye-witness testimony to confirm his presence at the material time. Suspicious behaviour yes and, an economy with the truth as to his activities, or more likely, Knox’s movements and deeds that fateful day. The main focus of attention inevitably centred on the genetic and biological traces found inside the cottage. There was the bloody footprint found on the sky blue mat in the small bathroom. This element, posited by Rinaldi and Boemia as “probable identity” was just as suggestive, if it was indeed his footprint, that he visited the cottage some time later that evening ie, after the crime had already been committed. Another crucial element was the Double DNA Knife sequestered from Corso Garibaldi. The probative value of this piece of evidence will be considered shortly.

The only biological element signifying Sollecito’s physical presence in the “killing zone” (Meredith’s bedroom) at the time she was killed was the trace found on the bra hook. Successive courts struggled to come to terms with the fact that there was a paucity of genetic traces at the prosecution’s behest to demonstrate that Sollecito had participated in the attack upon Meredith Kercher. If Sollecito, as contended, had helped subdue poor Meredith, cut her bra strap with a pocket knife and then at close quarters stabbed her, it was a racing certainty his DNA traces would have been found inside the bedroom eg, on Meredith’s clothing, and similarly on the clothes he was wearing that night. No such traces were ever found; nor did the prosecution detect or introduce fingerprint evidence as an alternate means to establish Sollecito’s presence in Meredith’s bedroom. Given the paucity of forensic traces one can only postulate, therefore, that Sollecito’s presence at the scene of the crime was, at best, post delictum i.e. at some time after the murder. On the assumption it was indeed Sollecito’s DNA on Exhibit 165b, it is reasonable to suppose that he (later) picked up the same to examine it out of a sense of morbid curiosity.

In retrospect, the evidence disclosed a reasonable doubt as to Sollecito’s complicity in Meredith’s digital rape and murder. He lacked a motive for the crime, his presence in the cottage at the material time could not be conclusively established and, he lacked the means with which to commit the crime, judging by the description of the knife wounds found on Meredith’s body and the bloody outline of a knife print found on the pillow in Meredith’s bedroom. Put another way, the circumstantial evidence lacked sufficient weight, precision and concordance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty of digital rape, murder, possession of the Double DNA Knife and, theft of the mobile phones. The charge of simulation will be considered shortly, in tandem with Knox’s case.

As for Knox, when one considers each and every component either singularly and/or in combination, the evidence did not create a complete framework because there were gaps or incongruities which discounted the attribution of the substantive crimes to her. For one, she lacked motive. True, there was evidence to show that she was present at the cottage during the temporal period when poor Meredith was digitally raped and killed. But in Knox’s case, analogous to Sollecito, the quantity and probative value of the mixed biological traces to establish her complicity for digital rape and murder was also tenuous. This could not be explained away by reference to a systematic and thorough cleansing of the apartment, ex post facto. If Massei and Nencini’s premise was correct i.e. Knox and Sollecito had participated in the attack upon Meredith, they did not possess the cleaning materials or the scientific knowledge to conceal or remove their genetic traces from the house, especially in Meredith’s bedroom and/or the small bathroom.

Essentially, the only evidence which could conclusively establish Knox’s presence in Meredith’s bedroom at the time of the attack was the Double DNA Knife (Exhibit 36). The probative value of the traces found on the Knife was subsequently described by Nencini as “not reassuring”. The remainder of the genetic elements e.g. the mixed traces found in the small bathroom were just as consistent with Knox entering Meredith’s bedroom after Guede had left Via della Pergola 7 and inadvertently (later) carrying them into the small bathroom. This deduction, similar to Sollecito, is derived from the fact that no other traces of Knox’s DNA were ever found in the killing zone, upon Meredith’s clothing or upon Knox’s clothing. To recapitulate, if Knox had struck the fatal blow to Meredith’s left side of her neck, Knox’s DNA would assuredly have been found inside the bedroom, especially on Meredith’s clothing. It would have been impossible for Knox and Sollecito to have disguised or excluded their presence by some form of clean-up and, without interfering with Guede’s traces. They did not possess the expertise to achieve this objective; and, if they did, this does not explain the traces found in the small bathroom. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion one can derive from the forensic traces detected, is that there is a reasonable doubt Knox participated in the digital rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.

To bolster this judgment, the author also places reliance on two other factors. First, the bloody outline on Meredith’s pillow was suggestive of a knife with different dimensions from Exhibit 36 and, the pocket knife apparently used by Sollecito to cut Meredith’s bra strap etc. Secondly, having regard to the evidence of the eight consultants as to the description of the knife (or knives) which inflicted the injuries to Meredith’s neck, the only rational explanation is that the Double DNA Knife was not the murder weapon. And, for the sake of completeness, assuming Meredith’s traces were found on Exhibit 36 those traces were a by-product of contamination, as Professor Vecchiotti and Professor Conti later concluded.

To summarize, therefore, Knox lacked a sufficient motive to digitally rape and murder Meredith Kercher. The mere fact that she was present inside the cottage at the material time did not prove that she participated in the crime. It was suggestive that she was present at the cottage for an ulterior reason and her actions thereafter betrayed those motivations. Finally, the totality of the genetic traces found inside the cottage and, on the Double DNA Knife, did not conclusively prove that she participated in the attack upon poor Meredith. Expressed another way, there were gaps or incongruities in the framework of evidence. As we have just seen the circumstantial evidence lacked sufficient weight, precision and concordance to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Knox was guilty of digital rape, murder, possession of the Double DNA Knife and, theft of the mobile phones.

The author anticipates an attack upon this judgment based upon several other components of the circumstantial evidence. Lest one forgets the reasonable onlooker is bound to ask, if Knox was truly innocent of the crimes attributed to her (and Sollecito) why lie about her movements and activities that fateful evening? The answer lies in the criminal conduct and motivations of Knox which was unrelated to Guede’s lustful impulses and sexual instincts, after he had gained admittance to Via della Pergola 7.

Lest we forget, however, the alternative hypothesis which follows shortly, discloses that both Sollecito and Knox lied about their movements and activities that fateful night. Judged by US Federal law, they were guilty of obstructing justice; by English law, they were certainly guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Based on those lies it is almost certain they were responsible for and guilty of simulating a burglary. As the author has already concluded, Knox was also guilty of Calunnia. In the final analysis, Knox and Sollecito’s calculating and callous behaviour, disrespectful of the memory of poor Meredith, evidenced by their repeated lies or half-truths vindicated a sentence of imprisonment for both; but not 25 years and 28 years and six months, respectively.

The writer has forged his own synthesis as to the horrific events which transpired during November 1-2, 2007. The scenario is derived almost entirely from the evidence and the findings made by successive Italian Courts. As we have already seen, in retrospect, Hellmann unwisely declined to set out or elucidate as to what transpired on that fateful day. By contrast, the author is prepared to set out his thesis. So here goes.

Final part next week

Interesting. I think it's a question of voices. Sometimes he is positing the counter view and discussing its merits; on other occasions he is in his own voice and it's his own conclusion. But he has clearly come to a conclusion of his own about the notion of lying and appears to believe that the hypothesis of a staged burglary can be based upon such a notion, which is erroneous.

I suspect he may have been lobbied and as a result has diverged from rigorous analysis. Now, I want to read his final part to see how all the elements come together in his mind, when he attempts to speculate what actually happened.

The case for the prosecution is wholly bunk, but it's cleverly deceptive. The greatest difficulty for those people, even fair minded ones, who have not worked all the evidence in detail and joined each piece to the others, is Amanda's first two statements and sometimes her third. Additionally, I wonder how many people know that in Romanelli's room there were only five disclosed samples tested - that the burglary or, to take an investigator's position, the alleged burglary, was never investigated on the merits by the police.
 
Interesting. I think it's a question of voices. Sometimes he is positing the counter view and discussing its merits; on other occasions he is in his own voice and it's his own conclusion. But he has clearly come to a conclusion of his own about the notion of lying and appears to believe that the hypothesis of a staged burglary can be based upon such a notion, which is erroneous.

I suspect he may have been lobbied and as a result has diverged from rigorous analysis. Now, I want to read his final part to see how all the elements come together in his mind, when he attempts to speculate what actually happened.

The case for the prosecution is wholly bunk, but it's cleverly deceptive. The greatest difficulty for those people, even fair minded ones, who have not worked all the evidence in detail and joined each piece to the others, is Amanda's first two statements and sometimes her third. Additionally, I wonder how many people know that in Romanelli's room there were only five disclosed samples tested - that the burglary or, to take an investigator's position, the alleged burglary, was never investigated on the merits by the police.

I would also take issue with his contention that Amanda and Raf were not demonstrated to have the scientific knowledge to clean up their own biological traces while leaving behind only Rudy's. While he counts this statement as merely 'not proven' he should be counting it as flat out crazy. He doesn't seem to understand the hypothesized clean-up is literally magical thinking, and a scientific impossibility.

He doesn't understand the science, he doesn't understand the issue of coerced statements and just assumes they are "lies, and he's offended that two young people showed immaturity in the face of a tragic crime.

But he does seem smart enough to put many ideas together in a logical way. He's half-a-guilter.

So where did a literate person like this pick up so much blinding bias? Why does this guy lack the objectivity to see the holes in his analysis?
 
So Amanda cracked during the interrogation but made up a story where she wasn't directly involved to cover up the real story where she wasn't directly involved which happened to be a story about a bar owner that the police knew to be correct. Seems legit.
 
I would also take issue with his contention that Amanda and Raf were not demonstrated to have the scientific knowledge to clean up their own biological traces while leaving behind only Rudy's. While he counts this statement as merely 'not proven' he should be counting it as flat out crazy. He doesn't seem to understand the hypothesized clean-up is literally magical thinking, and a scientific impossibility.

He doesn't understand the science, he doesn't understand the issue of coerced statements and just assumes they are "lies, and he's offended that two young people showed immaturity in the face of a tragic crime.

But he does seem smart enough to put many ideas together in a logical way. He's half-a-guilter.

So where did a literate person like this pick up so much blinding bias? Why does this guy lack the objectivity to see the holes in his analysis?
CJ72, I spent time today reading IA from thread beginning, page 1 of 505.
You should start at square one, and read. You need a rocking chair, because leisure is required. Bruce Fisher introduces, Chris Halkides contributes, and many others, but Charlie Wilkes has full case facts. He seems to have been involved from very early 2008.
 
Interesting. I think it's a question of voices. Sometimes he is positing the counter view and discussing its merits; on other occasions he is in his own voice and it's his own conclusion. But he has clearly come to a conclusion of his own about the notion of lying and appears to believe that the hypothesis of a staged burglary can be based upon such a notion, which is erroneous.

I suspect he may have been lobbied and as a result has diverged from rigorous analysis. Now, I want to read his final part to see how all the elements come together in his mind, when he attempts to speculate what actually happened.

The case for the prosecution is wholly bunk, but it's cleverly deceptive. The greatest difficulty for those people, even fair minded ones, who have not worked all the evidence in detail and joined each piece to the others, is Amanda's first two statements and sometimes her third. Additionally, I wonder how many people know that in Romanelli's room there were only five disclosed samples tested - that the burglary or, to take an investigator's position, the alleged burglary, was never investigated on the merits by the police.
I doubt he's been lobbied. Yet his theory is, they are guilty, but yet given that they probably didn't do the murder, they are probably guilty anyway.
 
Samson said:
CJ72, I spent time today reading IA from thread beginning, page 1 of 505.
You should start at square one, and read. You need a rocking chair, because leisure is required. Bruce Fisher introduces, Chris Halkides contributes, and many others, but Charlie Wilkes has full case facts. He seems to have been involved from very early 2008.


You read the whole Forum on IIP recently Samson?!!
Gnarly!

Too bad you weren't around when Bruce 1st started Injustice in Perugia,
you'd have had fun reading and debating a pro-guiltard named Al-fukugd or something like that.
It was fun givin' it to her...
:D
 
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I doubt he's been lobbied. Yet his theory is, they are guilty, but yet given that they probably didn't do the murder, they are probably guilty anyway.

Why do you doubt he's been lobbied? I've lobbied people about this case. I am aware of other pro innocent lobbying. Haven't you lobbied? We know the dark side has lobbied - Harry Rag with the press is a big example. Why wouldn't they lobby this guy and ask him to be "balanced". Or point out some "facts" that he's "missed"?
 
Remorse?

IIRC, Guede expressed remorse that he had not helped Meredith after she was injured. He did not express remorse for attacking her.


Greetings,
Can anyone help me find out where in Rudy Guede's Skype conversation,
(taped by Perugian Police as his bro Giacomo helps them interrogate, err question,
opps, I mean converse with Rudy for 3 hours while he was on the run,
a few days after Giacomo had taken these cops to Rudy's apartment),
where does Rudy show much remorse for not calling Emergency Services at #118
to help save Miss Kercher after the stranger knifed,
(but did not rape) her while he used her room mate's potty?


For what I just seem to recall is that Rudy Guede was coverin' his arse with some bull crap story
that he was on a "date" and when he left, Meredith was still dressed, but surrounded by her own blood, dying.
Afterwards, Rudy changed clothes + went dancin' at The Domus nightclub,
right?

What remorse?
The dude did not deserve a 6 year reduction off his prison sentence,
in my surfer's opinion.

His German Prison Diary,
written sometime after The Skype Call,
as he languished in a foreign prison he was afraid to be in,
seems to show some remorse.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


I need help on this too:
Rudy Guede,
on the run in Germany,
heard on this Skype call from Nov. 19 of '07,
is worried about semen.

How did word get out that there was semen inside Meredith's bedroom?
I thought that this probable semen was not discovered until much, much later,
by the defense.

Or was Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXKyMh48KQ&app=desktop
:confused:
 
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Why do you doubt he's been lobbied? I've lobbied people about this case. I am aware of other pro innocent lobbying. Haven't you lobbied? We know the dark side has lobbied - Harry Rag with the press is a big example. Why wouldn't they lobby this guy and ask him to be "balanced". Or point out some "facts" that he's "missed"?

Well.... I've posted lots to ISF/JREF, and if you call that "lobbying", well...... maybe specifics would be helpful, because I've never called an Italian prosecutor or judge, for instance; that's what I'd define as lobbying.

I have never called someone or sent them a communication imploring them (privately) to change their point of view. I have, however, had private PMs with just under a dozen guilters - in essence to get them to lobby me - or at least explain to me (outside the public glare of these forums) why they say what they do.

I've been accused of being lobbied, in the sense that the views I express are somehow not my own, but the result of some outside influence - absent that influence I'd be saying something else.
 
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Greetings,
Can anyone help me find out where in Rudy Guede's Skype conversation,
(taped by Perugian Police as his bro Giacomo helps them interrogate, err question,
opps, I mean converse with Rudy for 3 hours while he was on the run,
a few days after Giacomo had taken these cops to Rudy's apartment),
where does Rudy show much remorse for not calling Emergency Services at #118
to help save Miss Kercher after the stranger knifed,
(but did not rape) her while he used her room mate's potty?

jack says: (7:01:35PM) I know. You have to be calm.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:01:43PM) I was there when it happened.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:01:59PM) But I didn't do ****.

jack says: (7:02:10PM) But now where are you?

Rudy Hermann says: (7:02:22PM) I tried to help her and then I got out.

jack says: (7:03:45PM) I know. Try to explain it to me better so I can help you.

jack says: (7:03:54PM) So -- You have to stay calm.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:04:43PM) Listen, everything they're saying in the news is ********.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:04:55PM) I'm not in Italy now.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:04:57PM) Right.

jack says: (7:05:31PM) And where are you?

Rudy Hermann says: (7:05:51PM) It's not that I don't trust you, but I can't tell you right now.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:06:00PM) I'm sorry. I'm just scared.

jack says: (7:06:13PM) Of what?

jack says: (7:06:21PM) If you didn't do anything.

jack says: (7:06:49PM) You have to trust me. I swear you'll make it.

jack says: (7:07:00PM) But you have to give me a hand.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:07:18PM) The funny thing is, I tried to help her. You see, it happened when I was pooping in the bathroom.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:07:34PM) I tried to stop it from happening.

Rudy Hermann says: (7:07:42PM) But he escaped.

jack says: (7:07:50PM) He who?

Rudy Hermann says: (7:07:50PM) Then I tried to help her.

jack says: (7:08:02PM) Who escaped?

Rudy Hermann says: (7:08:46PM) Giacomo, I'm at an internet point and I don't have a lot of money. I'll call you as soon as I can. I promise.

jack says: (7:08:53PM) Wait.

jack says: (7:08:59PM) Don't be stupid.

jack says: (7:09:09PM) You'll just make things worse.

jack says: (7:09:32PM) Trust me.

jack says: (7:09:32PM) Here, everyone's convinced that you had nothing to do with it.​

From the AKC page - Sure seems very little for an 8 minute convo


For what I just seem to recall is that Rudy Guede was coverin' his arse with some bull crap story
that he was on a "date" and when he left, Meredith was still dressed, but surrounded by her own blood, dying.
Afterwards, Rudy changed clothes + went dancin' at The Domus nightclub,
right?

Yeah he went dancing where CT claimed he had been spotted just days before.

Btw, I never said I thought he was on a date, just that the british girls word wasn't worth crap both because they lied about things like Amanda and because they were probably drunk as skunks. I also didn't accept some people's assessment that he was too black ugly for Meredith to possibly be interested in him.

The part on the date is in the video linked on AKC.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAq7c7SjxYA&feature=youtu.be

3:24

I need help on this too:
Rudy Guede,
on the run in Germany,
heard on this Skype call from Nov. 19 of '07,
is worried about semen.

In video

How did word get out that there was semen inside Meredith's bedroom?
I thought that this probable semen was not discovered until much, much later,
by the defense.

It seemed from the convo that it was in the Italian media. Remember the first reports had it as a sex game so maybe an Italian tab added "sperm", which is what Rudi called it.

4:25 of video

ETA - Btw in the first Skype they sign off for an hour. Hard to believe Rudi would have spent the money for 3 hours of Internet Cafe costs or that he would do all that talking in public. Could he have had a laptop and swiped someone's wireless?
 
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Problems with the Italian CSC...Chieffi panel: an example. Chieffi called for an "osmotic" evaluation of the evidence, where all evidence no matter how credible or not was somehow summed, essentially to establish guilt (presumably). However, Italian procedural law, CPP Article 192, Evaluation of evidence, para. 2 states: The existence of a fact cannot be inferred from circumstantial evidence unless such evidence is serious, precise and consistent. How can the "osmotic" procedure be consistent with CPP Art. 192 para. 2? IMO, Chieffi is calling for an illegal procedure. But Mignini is arguing that because this illegal procedure is called for in a CSC ruling, it is legal and must be followed.
 
Greetings,
Can anyone help me find out where in Rudy Guede's Skype conversation,
(taped by Perugian Police as his bro Giacomo helps them interrogate, err question,
opps, I mean converse with Rudy for 3 hours while he was on the run,
a few days after Giacomo had taken these cops to Rudy's apartment),
where does Rudy show much remorse for not calling Emergency Services at #118
to help save Miss Kercher after the stranger knifed,
(but did not rape) her while he used her room mate's potty?


For what I just seem to recall is that Rudy Guede was coverin' his arse with some bull crap story
that he was on a "date" and when he left, Meredith was still dressed, but surrounded by her own blood, dying.
Afterwards, Rudy changed clothes + went dancin' at The Domus nightclub,
right?

What remorse?
The dude did not deserve a 6 year reduction off his prison sentence,
in my surfer's opinion.

His German Prison Diary,
written sometime after The Skype Call,
as he languished in a foreign prison he was afraid to be in,
seems to show some remorse.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


I need help on this too:
Rudy Guede,
on the run in Germany,
heard on this Skype call from Nov. 19 of '07,
is worried about semen.

How did word get out that there was semen inside Meredith's bedroom?
I thought that this probable semen was not discovered until much, much later,
by the defense.

Or was Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXKyMh48KQ&app=desktop
:confused:

The remorse IIRC is stated in the motivation report (of the fast-track trial or appeal?) not by Guede, but by the judge stating that Guede has shown remorse for not helping Meredith. Also the MR stated that, in contrast, Amanda and Raffaele did not show any remorse. That Guede showed such remorse could just be another Italian "judicial truth" with no basis in real facts.
 
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The remorse IIRC is stated in the motivation report (of the fast-track trial or appeal?) not by Guede, but by the judge stating that Guede has shown remorse for not helping Meredith. Also the MR stated that, in contrast, Amanda and Raffaele did not show any remorse. That Guede showed such remorse could just be another Italian "judicial truth" with no basis in real facts.

I am not sure of the appeal(s) motivations, however, Massei considered some mitigation for Amanda and Raffaele, in part, because of the covering of Meredith's body (and other behaviors) which showed him they felt a pity and repentance for what they had done.
 
The remorse IIRC is stated in the motivation report (of the fast-track trial or appeal?) not by Guede, but by the judge stating that Guede has shown remorse for not helping Meredith. Also the MR stated that, in contrast, Amanda and Raffaele did not show any remorse. That Guede showed such remorse could just be another Italian "judicial truth" with no basis in real facts.

He shows remorse in the first Skype that I posted above.

ETA - he never actually has remorse for anything but not helping her more and calling for help.
 
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I doubt he's been lobbied. Yet his theory is, they are guilty, but yet given that they probably didn't do the murder, they are probably guilty anyway.

It looks to me like this guy started out with the intent of solving the following "mystery", at least in his head:

If Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are not guilty of the murder, why did they act so guilty after the murder?

It makes me wonder if this is part of the rationalization that many who assumed they must be guilty of the murder are now going through, since they have been found innocent. It is a way of avoiding the shock and ugliness of admitting to themselves that they got it wrong, and have been accepting the idea that two people were guilty of a heinous crime based on very shaky evidence.

So what it seems he wants to do is make them guilty of something. The problem is, he has concluded that there is proof that AK and RS were present at the time of the murder, but I don't see where that is true.

I think that, unfortunately, the one thing he wants to accept as true is that AK and RS are bad people, and must have done something, so he is jumping through hoops to avoid thinking that two totally innocent people were railroaded on bizarre theories and trumped up BS.
 
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