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South Carolina, tear down that flag!

Whilst googling images of *that* statue (I know... but it is somewhat mesmerising) I came across this

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-The-Confederate-flag?page=8

This **** hideous piece of **** monument sits on privately owned property, prominently displayed on the side of the interstate near Nashville. The statue is of a demon-possessed Nathan Bedford Forrest (the first Grand Wizard of the KKK) depicting how he might look after recently discovering that his horse is brown.
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lobosrul said:
May I suggest actually reading the US Constitution, specifically the supremacy clause.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Eh?
 
Yuchi1 said:
Eh?
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Do I need to explain what the word "notwithstanding" means? It means in spite of or nevertheless. Or are you confused where it says constitution? That is referring to state constitutions.
 
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Meadmaker said:
I don't think it's quite so easy to say that.

What should our whole attitude be toward the Civil War? Should we talk about it as a great crusade where the Good Guys overcame evil? At the battlefields, should we rewrite the presentations so that they aren't so neutral? Edit the films to show the triumph of freedom against the forces of oppression and slavery?

There would be a lot of truth to that version of events, I am sure you will admit.

Should we not only lower the flag at that South Carolina monument to fallen Confederate soldiers, but also destroy the monument itself? After all, they were fighting in a cause that was, frankly, evil, were they not? Why should we memorialize them at all? Isn't it time those monuments came down?


I don't think so. They're part of history. The men who fought for the Confederacy fought for slavery, sort of, but for the most part they fought because it was their team. It was their home town. In the case of my grandmother's grandfather, it was because his father informed him that he and his brothers would be disinherited unless they joined the Confederate army. (And they had a financial stake in it directly as well, since some of their "property" consisted of people.)


At what point does it stop? How far should we go in purging those symbols that we associate with racism or slavery? That's a serious question, by the way. Is it just that flag, or should it include the monuments? I was somewhat serious about the question of music as well. Should a government band ever play "The Bonnie Blue Flag"? I know that no one is getting irate about music like that, but, well, where do you draw the line?

I think there's something very odd about flying a rebel flag from a government building, so it seems to make sense to me to take it down from an official display, but it's hard for me to get worked up over a coffee cup with a confederate battle flag on it. I feel more nervous about efforts to purge unpopular symbols than I feel about the symbols themselves.
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IMO, you have touched upon the real endgame with our social engineers hereabouts desirous of creating a nanny/police state out of this country by (among other things) demonizing a region because of the actions of a few.

Hell, the Brits tried the same by outlawing bagpipes, tartan plaid, wearing o' the green and catholics from living east of the river Shannon. And they, are supposed to be so "enlightened"?

Perhaps, they should consider what Josef Stalin & Adolph Hitler did to the "critical thinkers" once they took power?

"First, they came for the Nazi's"....
 
Yuchi1 said:
IMO, you have touched upon the real endgame with our social engineers hereabouts desirous of creating a nanny/police state out of this country by (among other things) demonizing a region because of the actions of a few.

Hell, the Brits tried the same by outlawing bagpipes, tartan plaid, wearing o' the green and catholics from living east of the river Shannon. And they, are supposed to be so "enlightened"?

Perhaps, they should consider what Josef Stalin & Adolph Hitler did to the "critical thinkers" once they took power?

"First, they came for the Nazi's"....
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I don't think I've ever seen it all so clearly summed up in one package.

Thank you.
 
Invasion to start soon.

2258345996_a5fe2f9ced.jpg
 
jimbob said:
Here is a Maori member of the Mongrel Mob* explaining why they wear Nazi memorabilia







*Not a pleasant group of people, but it highlights the difference between a non-white wearing a symbol of white supremacy and a white.
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I wonder if the guy's Grandfather served in one of the Maori regiments in North Africa in World War 2. They were very much feared by the German troops....
 
dudalb said:
I wonder if the guy's Grandfather served in one of the Maori regiments in North Africa in World War 2. They were very much feared by the German troops....
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I was thinking along similar lines. If you are going to try proclaiming the martial superiority of the "Aryan race" it would be a bit of reality check to come up against a Maori or Gurkha battalion.
 
Yuchi1 said:
Followed by delusions of wisdom by the critical thinkers.
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How about supporting your contention then, with details, facts, evidence, rather then hyperbole. Who are the social engineers, names, specific actions and evidence behind they are demonizing an entire region. I'm seeing people demonizing a flag and individual idiots who think it's a harmless piece of cloth devoid of any harmful intent.

But please, enlighten me.
 
Yuchi1 said:
IMO, you have touched upon the real endgame with our social engineers hereabouts desirous of creating a nanny/police state out of this country by (among other things) demonizing a region because of the actions of a few.
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What is the religion being demonized, and by whom exactly? Oh, are you talking about Christianity (which constitutes >95% of our national and state government officials and judges?) Being demonized by a handful of JREF posters? Bill Maher? Or the Atheist echo chamber? Oh horrors, how shall Christianity ever survive, these must really be the End Times.
 
lobosrul said:
NH in 1783, NJ in 1804 actually. Yes the emancipation proclamation only applied to the south because Lincoln didn't have the authority to make it illegal in non-seceding states.
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FWIW, New Jersey did it gradually. The last dozen or so slaves were freed in 1865. But yes, they began the process in 1804.
 
grunion said:
What is the religion being demonized, and by whom exactly? Oh, are you talking about Christianity (which constitutes >95% of our national and state government officials and judges?) Being demonized by a handful of JREF posters? Bill Maher? Or the Atheist echo chamber? Oh horrors, how shall Christianity ever survive, these must really be the End Times.
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He said "region", not "religion".
 
Very interesting article on NPR today. I don't remember the fellow's name who was on, but he wrote "Confederates in the Attic", or something very like that, 20 years ago. The book was about the South, and the "lost cause" culture. Basically, it was about how throughout the South, the sort of things that Yuchi1 is now saying were just accepted, taught, and were the basic narrative of the Civil War...er I mean the War Between the States. Southerners weren't fighting for slavery, but for a noble cause, and simply couldn't overcome the industrial power of the Yankee aggressors.

Recently, he had remarked that in one generation since then, that narrative has practically disappeared, which is why when the Confederate Battle Flag came under fire this time around, all the politicians basically rolled over and caved in to the pressure. It wouldn't have happened 20 years ago. Actually, more accurately, he seemed to think that they didn't really cave in this time. It was more like they caved in before. The popular pressure, led by some very strident folks, would not allow a politician to admit that the Southern cause may have been somehow less than 100% noble, and may even have had something to do with slavery.


My problem with this whole thing is not that the old views are going away. I don't have any objection to the fact that people are seeing the ante-bellum South for what it was, and maybe feeling a little bit awkward supporting the flag that was the symbol of those days. My problem is that the victors in this social battle, i.e. the ones who are staunchly opposed to all things Confederate, in both reality and symbolism, can't resist dancing on the graves of the vanquished. As is so often the case, when victory is in sight, it isn't enough to note that it has been achieved. They have to "spike the ball" in a sense. It's not enough to get the flag off the statehouse grounds, which will undoubtedly happen, they have to go after the keychains and coffee cups, too.
 
Meadmaker said:
My problem with this whole thing is not that the old views are going away. I don't have any objection to the fact that people are seeing the ante-bellum South for what it was, and maybe feeling a little bit awkward supporting the flag that was the symbol of those days. My problem is that the victors in this social battle, i.e. the ones who are staunchly opposed to all things Confederate, in both reality and symbolism, can't resist dancing on the graves of the vanquished. As is so often the case, when victory is in sight, it isn't enough to note that it has been achieved. They have to "spike the ball" in a sense. It's not enough to get the flag off the statehouse grounds, which will undoubtedly happen, they have to go after the keychains and coffee cups, too.
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Well, we can't agree then. Because I'm out to bury the flag, and dance on it's grave.

ETA: My particular dance will be "the dougie".
 
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