Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Kauffer]

After Hellman, I assumed it was over. When ISC annulled Hellman, that got my attention. I assumed Nencini would acquit, and when Nencini convicted I couldn't even tell from the live feed that the verdict was guilty. That's when I started to become curious, and wanted to see what this was all about.

After a few months of reading and research, I found myself on these pages, and haven't left since (not including my recent "forced vacation").

But I never believed any court would convict or allow the case to keep moving forwards. In that way, I've only been right twice, and wrong on everything else.

My views on dietrologia, etc, are all done with the benefit of hindsight. But my last call on a full acquittal I was pretty happy with. Not just because it was right, but because there was an argument in back of it, and with so much confirming incidents right in the home stretch, a kind of analysis otherwise known as "time frame continuity", but just meaning micro, mid-level, and macro data all aligned in a consistent direction.

Or, I coulda just got lucky.

Anyway, case closed.

You are far from alone. I was watching the BBC and they were completely confused about Nencini's verdict. It was only when I saw that "gentleman" from the British consulate on the Kercher's table, grinning like a Cheshire Cat as he explained things to the family, that it became clear what had happened.

 

[Diocletus]

You are far from alone. I was watching the BBC and they were completely confused about Nencini's verdict. It was only when I saw that "gentleman" from the British consulate on the Kercher's table, grinning like a Cheshire Cat as he explained things to the family, that it became clear what had happened.

Doesn't anybody teach British diplomats about the stiff upper lip anymore?

 

[Grinder]

I'm reading Nencini to see what the keys to conviction were for his court.

I found this which was contradicted by Massei's court:

As concerns the toxicological examination, the forensic pathologist was able to exclude that, at the moment of death, the girl presented any trace of drugs or alcohol.

Not only did Lalli find alcohol in her system but a second test by another group confirmed it.

ETA - what about Curatolo? - In fact, from about 21.30 of November 1, 2007 to about 00.30 of November 2, 2007, no inquiry findings have indicated that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were somewhere else than the scene of the murder;

 

[Kauffer]

Doesn't anybody teach British diplomats about the stiff upper lip anymore?

Apparently we are employing Italians.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/pierluigi-puglia/42/936/39b?trk=pub-pbmap

WB!

 

[acbytesla]

I'm sure the story was a cover for how he really got it. But I doubt it was Diaz's alleged stolen one.

Why? You also thought Rudy was not there to steal.

 

[acbytesla]

I think it is very clear that Rudy was a burglar. Do I think it was a crime wave? Who knows? I'd bet money that the watch was stolen. We'll never know if it was Diaz or a different victim.

Rudy gives himself away with his typical unimaginative stories. An unidentified "South American" let him into the nursery. He bought the laptop first in Milan and then somewhere else..never remembering precisely where. He was given the gold watch by an unidentified female friend. Meredith was murdered by an unidentified man who Meredith let in while he was on the john wearing hesdphones.

 

[RWVBWL]

Keys

The story of Guede being let in with keys by some South American man, is BS, another typical Guede lie.

But Maria Del Prato says in this video, clearly saying Rudy had "a set of keys" in his back pack, yet the police and court doc don't mention a set of keys as being in his possession or if they were given back to him or kept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfA7rrmfedE

For some reason I'll take her word over the police report and court doc. Probably the keys werent of interest to the police? The keys arent mentioned as her own either.

If Rudy was lead to the Nursery by a fellow burglar in Milan, it seems logical. A burglar crowd of thieves, to share a low importance/ low cash value building to hit again. Possible the Milan burglar guy who would know the daycare was low risk and easy to get into. Or maybe Rudy just knew the Daycare was a place to rob, a place to break into?

For Maria the break in was, and is, probably a memorable event in her life; she probably remembers it more vividly. Thats why I side with her that there were keys seen in his backpack.

For a police officer, who sees hundreds, to thousands of these small burglary events, they dont recall as well and miss details, probably like a mechanic doesnt recall which car he worked on.

The set of keys could possibly have been Rudys? to his apartment etc..? someone elses home he burglarized?

Maybe why the key story got started? I dont know mainly because Rudy never seems to be able to tell the truth about anything.

Hi JREF2010,
This is from The Massei-Cristiani Report:

Witness Maria Antonietta Salvadori Del Prato Titone, at the hearing of 6-27-2009, reported that on the morning of Saturday, October 27, 2007, as she entered the nursery [asilo] located on Via Plinio 16 in Milan, of which she was the director, she noticed that a person she did not know — subsequently identified as Rudy Guede — was leaving from her own office. There were no signs of forced entry. Some small change was missing from the box where money was kept. Rudy Guede had a knapsack [zaino] inside of which he was carrying a computer. The police, who were called immediately, made him reveal the backpack [zainetto] in which there was a long kitchen-knife of approximately 40 centimeters. She recalled that there were other objects in the sack [zaino]: a set of keys, a small women’s gold watch, a small hammer of the sort found in buses for breaking the windows. The police told her that the computer had been stolen in Perugia, from a lawyer’s office
<snip>

As I ask you folks this question,
consider how many keys you have on your person or in your purse.

How many keys did Rudy have on him?
He did not apparently have a car, nor a job, nor even a girlfriend.
It makes sense that he mighta only needed a key or 2 for his apartment,
right?


Yet I seem to recall reading, years ago,
that "Poor Rudy" had some stolen keys on him when he was busted in Milan.

If true,
what was he doing with stolen keys,
whom did they belong to and what were they for?

For that matter,
what dude cruises around town with a woman gold wristwatch in his possession,
and he does not even have a girlfriend?

 

[Grinder]

Why? You also thought Rudy was not there to steal.

Read the motivations they say he wasn't there to steal. Nothing was missing was quoted earlier.

The watch wasn't lost or left with Rudi. It was being held by MLE. The court date was well past Nina's book. Had Diaz gone to the police/courts she could have identified the watch. They stated they couldn't find the owner.

 

[RWVBWL]

Read the motivations they say he wasn't there to steal. Nothing was missing was quoted earlier.

The watch wasn't lost or left with Rudi. It was being held by MLE. The court date was well past Nina's book. Had Diaz gone to the police/courts she could have identified the watch. They stated they couldn't find the owner.

This is a job for ACbyTesla!
Contact Nina Burleigh and ask her to please ask Mrs. Diaz if she knows the cops might have her Mother's gold wristwatch.

That would be classic if it happened...
RW

 

[Wattson]

I think it is very clear that Rudy was a burglar. Do I think it was a crime wave? Who knows? I'd bet money that the watch was stolen. We'll never know if it was Diaz or a different victim.

Rudy gives himself away with his typical unimaginative stories. An unidentified "South American" let him into the nursery. He bought the laptop first in Milan and then somewhere else..never remembering precisely where. He was given the gold watch by an unidentified female friend. Meredith was murdered by an unidentified man who Meredith let in while he was on the john wearing hesdphones.

I agree. He was caught red handed in a place where he wasn't supposed to be. He was in possession of property from that very place (knife in back pack) AND stolen property from another burglary (from the very town he resides). He's a burglar. The asinine story that he paid 50 EURO to some guy at the train station to sleep in an office is as believable as "someone came in and stabbed Meredith while I was dropping a deuce". Why didn't he just sleep on the train? It wouldn't shock me to discover that he was the one who burgled the pre school the first time. He easily could have blown the $2,000 Euro partying in Milan (night clubs, coke, booze, etc) then returned to check for more.

 

[Grinder]

I think it is very clear that Rudy was a burglar. Do I think it was a crime wave? Who knows? I'd bet money that the watch was stolen. We'll never know if it was Diaz or a different victim.

Guede's 2013 trial:

E)
Of the crime foreseen and punished according to article 545 of the Penal Code, because, in order to gain profit, being aware of its criminal origin, he bought or at least received from persons unknown, the following goods: One female wristwatch presumably of gold, that for the circumstances of its discovery, is considered to be of a criminal origin, - as per the report prepared by the officers of the Garibaldi Venezia Police headquarters of Milan, one grey/black portable computer of the Sony brand, model Vaio complete with charger; one mobile phone of Nokia brand model 6310 with IMEI code 350780/20/390565/1, thefts recorded as per the complaint presented on 15.10.2007 at Perugia Police station by Paolo BROCCHI.

Rudy gives himself away with his typical unimaginative stories. An unidentified "South American" let him into the nursery. He bought the laptop first in Milan and then somewhere else..never remembering precisely where. He was given the gold watch by an unidentified female friend. Meredith was murdered by an unidentified man who Meredith let in while he was on the john wearing hesdphones.

He told the SA story consistently even though Nina got it wrong. I doubt anybody in the universe ever believed he got the goods in Milan. So what?
What purpose would have been served for him to name names?

Someone tipped him to the nursery for a sleeping spot. The court had a gate and his guide let him in (the gate was locked) and then faking having keys fooled with the lock until the door opened, totally consistent with the door's condition.

Were you the one that suggested he just walked down the street trying doors? Or do you believe he had robbed it before and just came back to hang out?

 

[RWVBWL]

I gotta tell you folks that I am still bothered
from watching that short German video clip the other day which showed Miss Kercher dead,
lying atop her pillow.


Being an old beach boy,
I'm kinda, really really kinda into sharks.
Though I've seen, (in research and interacting with a well known shark attack researcher), photographs of a few dead people, killed by shark attack and have viewed numerous bloody wounds too from shark bites,
but for some reason Miss Kercher,
seen lying naked, raped and murdered,
bothers me.

That Poor Girl.



Hey Vixen and other Pro-Guiltards:
how come only Rudy Guede's DNA is on and inside her body?

Surely Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito too had some fun in the Sex Game Gone Wrong
or was that a Prank that you believe happened, right?

Where is their DNA or bloody palm prints or bloody fingerprints?

 

[Grinder]

Hi If true,
what was he doing with stolen keys,
whom did they belong to and what were they for?

I think the stolen keys came from Nina or Dempsey. You should read the report. No mention of the keys. Prato also has the men with her being a plumber (Nina), a locksmith (Prato video) and a worker to build a steel step in the garden (Massei trial testimony).

Do you have a key count? Maybe there were three. What is clear is they weren't keys to the nursery.

 

[Grinder]

I agree. He was caught red handed in a place where he wasn't supposed to be. He was in possession of property from that very place (knife in back pack) AND stolen property from another burglary (from the very town he resides). He's a burglar. The asinine story that he paid 50 EURO to some guy at the train station to sleep in an office is as believable as "someone came in and stabbed Meredith while I was dropping a deuce". Why didn't he just sleep on the train? It wouldn't shock me to discover that he was the one who burgled the pre school the first time. He easily could have blown the $2,000 Euro partying in Milan (night clubs, coke, booze, etc) then returned to check for more.

From Rudi's witness statement to Mignini and Nappy:

Of October, I had gone to Milan because it was a friend’s birthday that I had got to know in Milan, anyway of a guy that I knew and I went to… because there was this party and we were to go dancing together and I was to spend a few days in Milan. Then it happened that the last day which would be between the night of 26 and 27, I found myself basically, well I couldn’t stay at this friend’s house and also because we had gone to the discotheque and there I lost sight of him… what did I think? I said to myself I’ll go to Milan Central Station and wait for the train. However it must have been about two… And so stupidly what did I do? I met… I was there and naively I spoke with anybody and I met this South American person and I explained my problem that here in Milan even the one star hotels cost so much and this person said to me “it’s dangerous to say here the night at the Central Station, I work in a place and you can stay there until the morning that way you are safe” however you have to give me 20 Euros. I gave him this money. He took me to this, in this that turned out to be a nursery school… when I saw it… I naively said “ok I’ll stay here” and I stayed there until the next morning and this person had said to me “in the morning I’ll come don’t worry and then you can leave.” However then in the morning I saw this lady and a child and some men, I explained everything to the lady, how things had happened, and I said to the lady to call the Police. Then the Police came who then seized my cell phone and computer.

Prato was very sure that the 2000 Euro theft was an inside job. There is nothing indicating that Rudi was in Milan when the money was allegedly stolen nor that he was spending money like crazy. We know he was in Perugia between the cash theft and his sleepover.

 

[Ken Dine]

No News on the motivation report due today? At what time is it officially late?

Today would be 90 days, but most media reports say the MR is due by June 27th, next Saturday:

The Italian Supreme Court must issue its "motivation" by June 27. That's written reasoning for its verdict to clear Knox and Sollecito of the charges.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/nati...ment-lawsuit-possible-attorney-says/70791786/

If so, 90 days may be a too literal interpretation and they instead mean it's due within 3 months?

If it's due on a Saturday, then that may even extend it to the following Monday?

Then again, they may all decide to go on vacation and put its release off until after they return, and since this is Italy, they may return from summer vacation just in time for the fall holidays, so perhaps after they recover from their New Year's hangovers, the MR may finally be released?

Italy sure is fortunate to have hard-working Germans around to do all their heavy lifting for them.

 

[Kauffer]

I gotta tell you folks that I am still bothered
from watching that short German video clip the other day which showed Miss Kercher dead,
lying atop her pillow.


Being an old beach boy,
I'm kinda, really really kinda into sharks.
Though I've seen, (in research and interacting with a well known shark attack researcher), photographs of a few dead people, killed by shark attack and have viewed numerous bloody wounds too from shark bites,
but for some reason Miss Kercher,
seen lying naked, raped and murdered,
bothers me.

That Poor Girl.



Hey Vixen and other Pro-Guiltards: how come only Rudy Guede's DNA is on and inside her body?
Surely Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito too had some fun in the Sex Game Gone Wrong
or was that a Prank that you believe happened, right?

Where is their DNA or bloody palm prints or bloody fingerprints?

What is extraordinary is that they managed to keep Amanda and Raffaele in preventative detention when they had no evidence against them - just supposition and speculation. Between 6th November and 18th December, the case unravelled entirely.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hi Grinder,
You know, of course, that the same newspaper reporter that found Antonio Curatolo and Marco Quintavalle, and brought them forward to testify in The Foxy Knoxy Witch Hunt, worked for a local newspaper called Giornale dell'Umbria, right?

You also know that the reporter lived right next door to Marco Quintavalle's Conad store, right?
Whatcha talkin' about, RW?

Perugia Shock
Jan. 15, 2009:
<snip>
Just by coincidence the journalist who found him is a friend of him for decades and lives next door to his store. In other words the same journalist who for one year has been bothering all pushers and homeless people of the park, the one that has been buzzing at all doors around via della Pergola needed one year to know something from his old friend Marco whose store is just next door...

I have sometimes headed to the Santa Monica Library to do shark research,
ya know, look at microfilms of local newspapers for old articles
about Great White sharks off Southern California,
as some smaller newspapers do not post their archived issues online.


As I don't read Italian, I'm wondering:
Can anyone find out if this local newspaper,http://www.giornaledellumbria.it/
whose reporter played such a big part in investigating the this horrible crime we discuss,
has an online archival section?

This newspaper,
had to have reports on happenings in Perugia,
heck that 1 reporter lived right next door to Marco's Conad store,
within minutes by foot from where Rudy Guede, Raff, Toto, and Amanda+Medredith lived.

Surely the local newspaper would have covered the possible arson fire
at Mrs. Diaz flat which happened right by Rudy's flat, right?

Anyone wanna do some research?

Heck,
maybe someone who reads Italian can even check this other newspaper too
for archived info about that mysterious fire where the cat was killed next to Rudy Guede's flat:
http://corrieredellumbria.corr.it/


ETA:
Or what about Oggi?
http://www.oggi.it/
They covered the case well, even bringing forth, IIRC, some screengrab pix from the carpark CCTV
of people looking towards Meredith's flat during the time she was raped and murdered, right?
I still sometimes wonder what it was these folks saw or heard that got their attention that night...

 

[Vixen]

I gotta tell you folks that I am still bothered
from watching that short German video clip the other day which showed Miss Kercher dead,
lying atop her pillow.


Being an old beach boy,
I'm kinda, really really kinda into sharks.
Though I've seen, (in research and interacting with a well known shark attack researcher), photographs of a few dead people, killed by shark attack and have viewed numerous bloody wounds too from shark bites,
but for some reason Miss Kercher,
seen lying naked, raped and murdered,
bothers me.

That Poor Girl.



Hey Vixen and other Pro-Guiltards:
how come only Rudy Guede's DNA is on and inside her body?

Surely Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito too had some fun in the Sex Game Gone Wrong
or was that a Prank that you believe happened, right?

Where is their DNA or bloody palm prints or bloody fingerprints?

A ladies size handprint is on Mez' face. Blond hair in hand and down below. Size 37 ladies footprint in blood, Amanda's hand in blood on the wall IMV, Amanda's lamp on floor, not reported missing by her. Raff seemed to fear the stain on the pillowcase was his, thus his defense didn't want it tested (until way past procedural deadlines for lodging applications). His DNA is unequivocally on the braclasp, which was collected exactly the same time as Rudy's DNA on the sweatshirt cuffs.

As I set out before, IMV Raff and Amanda were predatory killers who marked out Mez to act out their sociopathic fantasies (his manga porn, hers jealous revenge with elements of homoerotica, for Mez snubbing her). Rudy was a spontaneous lust-driven sociopath besotted with Svengali-like Amanda, who had an all male contact list, with zero females. In her whole time there, she texted Filomena and Laura only once or twice (outside of the murder) and Mez hardly at all either.

Both Raff and Amanda's footprints in blood are all over the shop. Don't try to tell me they walked in copper alloys and rusty water. Amanda and Mez DNA on murder weapon. Raff's footprint on bathmat, need I go on?

BTW What happened to Melissa? Is this one, Barbara Ann?

 

[HumanityBlues]

A ladies size handprint is on Mez' face. Blond hair in hand and down below. Size 37 ladies footprint in blood, Amanda's hand in blood on the wall IMV, Amanda's lamp on floor, not reported missing by her. Raff seemed to fear the stain on the pillowcase was his, thus his defense didn't want it tested (until way past procedural deadlines for lodging applications). His DNA is unequivocally on the braclasp, which was collected exactly the same time as Rudy's DNA on the sweatshirt cuffs.

As I set out before, IMV Raff and Amanda were predatory killers who marked out Mez to act out their sociopathic fantasies (his manga porn, hers jealous revenge with elements of homoerotica, for Mez snubbing her). Rudy was a spontaneous lust-driven sociopath besotted with Svengali-like Amanda, who had an all male contact list, with zero females. In her whole time there, she texted Filomena and Laura only once or twice (outside of the murder) and Mez hardly at all either.

Both Raff and Amanda's footprints in blood are all over the shop. Don't try to tell me they walked in copper alloys and rusty water. Amanda and Mez DNA on murder weapon. Raff's footprint on bathmat, need I go on?

BTW What happened to Melissa? Is this one, Barbara Ann?

Hi, I'm 2007. Have we met?

 

[acbytesla]

Read the motivations they say he wasn't there to steal. Nothing was missing was quoted earlier.

The watch wasn't lost or left with Rudi. It was being held by MLE. The court date was well past Nina's book. Had Diaz gone to the police/courts she could have identified the watch. They stated they couldn't find the owner.

Are we reading the same motivation? The ruling basically says he was there to steal. There were no signs he was there to spend the night. That he had been searching through the office. That he didn't find anything to steal beyond the knife was not because he wasn't trying. Rudy was convicted of "attempted burglary when he could have been convicted of tresspassing. He was also convicted of possessing stolen goods.