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Dylann Roof: The Second Amendment Strikes Again

uk_dave said:
Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Guns last for many years, bullets are consumables.

It may take many, many years, but if ammunition becomes harder to get hold of, perhaps eventually guns will become less prevalent.

Just out of curiousity, are bullets given a 'use by date'? Or if you found some ammunition that was, say, 70 years old, would you feel safe handling it or attempting to use it?
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I'd test a few rounds before I tried to fire one. Pull the bullet out and pour the powder on something that won't burn easily and light it. ([legal]Carefully![/legal]) If you get a good "whoosh", and the primer has been degraded, you should be fine. I fire .50 cal. ammo from WWII occasionally, it's free.
 
If gun laws cannot possibly change these kind of outcomes, then why is it that other countries have so few events like this compared to the US? In the UK it's possible to gain ownership of a gun, despite the laws... yet this kind of thing is vanishingly rare.

Is it just that there's something in American culture that makes some individuals determined to shoot lots of people?
 
I posted this on FB somewhere. I'll leave it here, and I'm not going to comment on the topic any more on this forum.
There is a dreadful tyranny stalking the USA today, preying on the elderly, the young, the weak and the poor alike and keeping them enslaved. It is the shadow of the gun. And yet the country is too afraid to come out from under that shadow, and resorts to empty rhetoric and ancient texts for excuses. Out here, we wonder when the USA will return to being the land of the free and the home of the brave...
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MRC_Hans said:
Shooting the abuser is hardly a good solution.
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It's a very good solution, if they're in the process of actually attacking you. But most defensive gun uses only require the display of the gun, not actually firing it.

You want them to end in jail, on top of all their other proeblems?
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I want them to be able to protect themselves. Why don't you?
 
uk_dave said:
Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Guns last for many years, bullets are consumables.

It may take many, many years, but if ammunition becomes harder to get hold of, perhaps eventually guns will become less prevalent.

Just out of curiousity, are bullets given a 'use by date'? Or if you found some ammunition that was, say, 70 years old, would you feel safe handling it or attempting to use it?
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Ammo made for WW2 appears to still be fine mostly, going by examples posted on youtube of firing such ammo.

Here's an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tiRsmQw3mk

Plus, I would guess that the reloaders in the USA could supply ammo for a very long time, even if all commercial ammo vanished tomorrow.
 
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Roof was a mentally ill maniac.

I think this is a case where keeping him from having a gun really wouldn't have stopped him.

He would have made a bomb, or driven a car through a crowd, or whatever else he could think of that would have killed the people his derangement was focused on.

I still can't understand why the government would take away my guns because of what someone else did with a gun.
 
Molinaro said:
And that right there highlights the problem.

It just come so naturally for Americans to jump to the conclusion that any problem can be solved by shooting someone.
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It's also a pretty textbook example of that siege mentality abaddon pointed out. "We're under threat of attack from everywhere, all the time; gotta protect ourselves."

332nd said:
Guns don't kill people... they just make killing people a helluva lot easier.
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"Guns don't kill people; people with guns kill people."
 
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"Keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill" is indeed rather problematic. As we know, the mentally ill often are not diagnosed and frequently never seek treatment, even if they have severe delusions. Frequently families are in denial...
It's often the case that individuals who do this sort of mass shooting will either have already obtained a weapon or weapons quite legally and owned them for some time before "going bad" for whatever reason.
Or, they may have access to weapons as in the case with the elementary-school shooter.

With the extreme medical privacy laws in place currently, it's likely that a mental-health professional who was treating someone with such ideation would be constrained against telling anyone. Only the tiny percentage of the mentally-ill who are certified as such by a court have any sort of accessible record.

At present, unless there is in fact some sort of court-ordered commitment or similar action, nothing would show up on an individual's record check or background check.
Would having ties to some sort of distastefull group be grounds to deny someone a firearm? The Klan? A Neo-Nazi outfit? How would a background check determine this?
 
Seismosaurus said:
If gun laws cannot possibly change these kind of outcomes, then why is it that other countries have so few events like this compared to the US? In the UK it's possible to gain ownership of a gun, despite the laws... yet this kind of thing is vanishingly rare.

Is it just that there's something in American culture that makes some individuals determined to shoot lots of people?
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Americans are clearly much much more apt to mass murder than other nationalities. It is a national failing of mainly white america.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
There are two extremes, "Take all the guns!" and "You won't take any of my guns!" The middle ground gets drowned out in the spite and fury of the two bitter ends fighting away.
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There hasn't been a middle ground in politics in the US for a long time. About anything, really.

Each side always shoves anyone showing a hint of opposition or agreement, to anything, to the far end.

If you want a little gun restriction, you are a gun grabber bringing down the country.

If you want to keep your guns, you are a gun nut because only a maniac would want a gun.
 
LTC8K6 said:
There hasn't been a middle ground in politics in the US for a long time. About anything, really.

Each side always shoves anyone showing a hint of opposition or agreement, to anything, to the far end.

If you want a little gun restriction, you are a gun grabber bringing down the country.

If you want to keep your guns, you are a gun nut because only a maniac would want a gun.
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See? That's the extremism I've been talking about.
 
uk_dave said:
Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Guns last for many years, bullets are consumables.

It may take many, many years, but if ammunition becomes harder to get hold of, perhaps eventually guns will become less prevalent.

Just out of curiousity, are bullets given a 'use by date'? Or if you found some ammunition that was, say, 70 years old, would you feel safe handling it or attempting to use it?
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If cartridges are kept dry, they'll last virtually forever. The ammo I shoot for my Mosin was sealed up in the 1970s. Many people are still shooting from spam cans sealed during WWII - which are pretty easy to come by and not that expensive.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Plus, I would guess that the reloaders in the USA could supply ammo for a very long time, even if all commercial ammo vanished tomorrow.
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For some guns, yeah. Some rounds are more reloadable than others.

Those of us with older guns would be SOL, though. (When was the last time an M1895 was used in a mass shooting, anyway? Katyn?)
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
I'd test a few rounds before I tried to fire one. Pull the bullet out and pour the powder on something that won't burn easily and light it. ([legal]Carefully![/legal]) If you get a good "whoosh", and the primer has been degraded, you should be fine. I fire .50 cal. ammo from WWII occasionally, it's free.
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We had a few problem with live ammo from WW1 and WW2 in the region, thankfully in my parents garden it was only bullets, no bombs or large caliber.

Our neighbor neutralized the WW2 bullet rounds we found in our garden/ground/wall also for safety before disposal. He did not tell us how he did it though, only that despite the decades in the soil some rare one were still "live". ETA: on the plus side we got to keep the now empty cartridge and the bullet as souvenir.
 
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