Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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ECHR is dead in the water.

Like any other court, it requires evidence.

It has all the evidence it needs in the official records of the police and courts, as well as Amanda's Memoriales 1 and 2. It may also use any other information it desires, including obtaining testimony or, with the assistance of a State, investigating. Amanda's statements from the interrogation, which she very quickly stated were of doubtful reliability in her Memoriales, will be important evidence that the police overcame her will, a violation of Convention Article 3.
 
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Yes, there is no such thing as perjury in Italy....

The witnesses who are not the defendants are obligated to tell the truth; they are subject to criminal charges if they are found to have committed perjury.
 
It has all the evidence it needs in the official records of the police and courts, as well as Amanda's Memoriales 1 and 2. It may also use any other information it desires, including obtaining testimony or, with the assistance of a State, investigating.


Details, details. The Masons will get the ECHR case through, no problem.

The only piece of the puzzle I can't fit is why the Masons took so long to step in and sort this case out - why did Knox and Sollecito not win the first trial, or have the case thrown out by Christmas 2007? Vixen, any ideas?
 
That is a completely frivolous reason. All ISC is tasked to do is judge whether Nencini's reasoning was within the bounds of "a reasonable view", even if they personally disagree with it, not having seen or heard the evidence themself.

IOW it ought to have rubberstamped Nencini or explain in which way his court was egregious from a legal, perverse, procedural or "public interest" POV.

Your post is not reflective of what the CSC is tasked with according to Italian law (the CPP). The CSC is to judge appeals filed in accordance with CPP Art. 606, which is quite broad.
 
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So in theory, Stefanoni should expect to be indicted, at a minimum.

She will probably be sent to a theoretical prison after a theoretical conviction.

Most officials charged with crimes in Italy get off because the trials are so long that the statute of limitations ends the case.
 
Like any other court, it requires evidence.

Yep, it does. Here's some evidence: She didn't get a lawyer, she didn't get an independent interpreter, she was denied a right to silence and statements taken from her without a lawyer and without a valid waiver of her right to silence were used to convict her. That's a slam dunk! And I haven't even mentioned that she got slapped.
 
No I didn't know that. So there is no such thing as perjury? Amanda did make contradictory claims of police brutality which was decided by the court as covering up for her calumny against Patrick.

You note Patrick and Raff were careful not to calumniate the police. What was Amanda thinking when she went down that route? She must have known it was a serious crime. Being dumb is not a defense to breaking the law.

You don't know a lot of stuff, like this, and the fact that Cassation can acquit pursuant to Article 620, which they cite.
 
Details, details. The Masons will get the ECHR case through, no problem.

The only piece of the puzzle I can't fit is why the Masons took so long to step in and sort this case out - why did Knox and Sollecito not win the first trial, or have the case thrown out by Christmas 2007? Vixen, any ideas?


Nice to see you.

Yes but it turns out that the Wise Guys thought from reading the PGP sites that one was called"knife-boy" and the other was Konx.

It is really amazing that they weren't able to get them out on "bail". Maybe the target for framing all along was Raf and it was get even time against the Mafia.
 
Nice to see you.

Yes but it turns out that the Wise Guys thought from reading the PGP sites that one was called"knife-boy" and the other was Konx.

It is really amazing that they weren't able to get them out on "bail". Maybe the target for framing all along was Raf and it was get even time against the Mafia.


Well whatever it is, I'm sure it's needlessly complicated. That's how the Masons seem to like things.
 
Section 530 Para II Case Precedent: Italian State vs Andreotti

Section 530 Para II Case Precedent: Italian State vs Andreotti
google translation Repubblica.it
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After 11 years, therefore, the process is closed to Andreotti and the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno does not hide his satisfaction. "It's fine also this verdict - said the lawyer - our first goal was in fact to put an end to a process that has gone on for 11 years. And then you have to look at the result that it ended with a judgment of acquittal."

Although, in the operative part of its judgment, the Supreme Court ruled that Andreotti must pay court costs, a "figure millionaire" because its "11 years of legal proceedings", underline rumors of attorney of the Supreme Court. But the lawyer Bongiorno denies: "The court costs mentioned in the operative part of the judgment refer solely to ordinary expenses related to the rejection of the appeal to the Supreme Court. No compensation millionaire, then, but only a few cents."

The Judges of First Instance, in its judgment of 23 October 1999 had acquitted Andreotti of the charge of criminal conspiracy mafia type for lack of fact challenged (drawing art. 530, second paragraph, of the Criminal Procedure Code, namely old formula of insufficient evidence), the courts of second instance had instead two distinct moments in the alleged links of Andreotti with the Mafia.

The first related to the facts until 1980 - qualified as criminal association "simple" does not exist then the association with the mafia - that the judges deemed prescribed; the latter - described as mafia-type criminal association - have been deemed non-existent, for which it was given acquittal (in this case, however, with reference to the second paragraph of Article 530 of the Criminal Procedure Code).

http://www.repubblica.it/2004/j/sezioni/cronaca/andreotti/andreotti/andreotti.html
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Ironically Avv Bongiornio also got Judge Bruno (of the current case Fifth Chambers) off mafia charges IIRC.

ETA A big difference between the ISC in Andreotti's case and the kids is that the Court of the First Instance found Andreotti not guilty due to Art 530 II. The appeal court replaced this with a guilty verdict and ISC simply upheld the original court, and reinstated 530 para 2, as found by 1st Instance Court.

In the kiddies' case, the First Instance court found "guilty" and Nencini upheld it (Hellmann having been annulled, kyboshed, grounded, banished).

Therefore Fifth Chambers 27 March 2015 HAS ESTABLISHED A NEW PRECEDENT and in any case, DID NOT HAVE THE JURISDICTION TO USE SECTION 530 Para 2.

What a shambles!!!
 
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Details, details. The Masons will get the ECHR case through, no problem.

The only piece of the puzzle I can't fit is why the Masons took so long to step in and sort this case out - why did Knox and Sollecito not win the first trial, or have the case thrown out by Christmas 2007? Vixen, any ideas?

Sheer overwhelming volume of evidence.
 
AFAICS They remain legally guilty as ISC's acquittal is legally and actually perverse = null and void.

Does the Emperor have new clothes?

They have been found innocent. You actually think that the Italians are starting this up again?
 
AFAICS They remain legally guilty as ISC's acquittal is legally and actually perverse = null and void.

You continually state things here that are simply not true.

Where do you get the idea they remain "legally guilty"? They've been acquitted by Italy's highest court. No further appeals allowed.
 
Section 530 Para II Case Precedent: Italian State vs Andreotti
google translation Repubblica.it
------------


Therefore Fifth Chambers 27 March 2015 HAS ESTABLISHED A NEW PRECEDENT and in any case, DID NOT HAVE THE JURISDICTION TO USE SECTION 530 Para 2.

What a shambles!!![/COLOR][/B]

Yes it did. Article 620 gives the ISC the authority. Why don't you read it?
 
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