The Historical Jesus III

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On the surface it does seem to be a logical thing to do...but Paul uses "brother" and "sister" to reference followers of Jesus and Mark 3:35 has Jesus state "For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother."

So the logic is flawed in that Paul doesn't state if the James he references as brother of the Lord is an actual sibling and in Mark Jesus himself calls all those that "do the will of God" "my brother, and my sister, and mother" and no where in Mark is there any connection between the sibling James and either of the two James that are listed as being part of the twelve.
1 Corinthians 9:5
Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas?
Galatians 1:19
I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother.

The first of these suggests that the Lord's brothers were not apostles, and the second raises the possibility that James was one, but it may not in fact mean that. These are the only two occurrences of the expression "Lord's Brothers" in NIV, and they explicitly exclude Apostles and Cephas from the category of Lord's Brothers. Yet these were unquestionably "followers of Jesus", so the two things can't be synonymous.
 
You are deliberately deceiving people. I have stated that Mark says Jesus had brothers, including a James.

I have already admitted that you write established fiction but you still write more.

People here can read what gMark says.

We have QUESTIONS in gMark about Jesus.

Mark 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son?
is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

According to Christians of antiquity Jesus was NOT ever described as a carpenter in the Gospels and had NO brother called James the Apostle.

In gMark, Jesus was described as a Transfiguring Water walker after he and Satan were together in the wilderness with angels.

Craig B said:
Elsewhere, in Paul, we have a James who is a "brother" of "the Lord".

Galatians 1.19 is completely useless to argue for an OBSCURE historical Jesus [rebel/ criminal/sage/rabbi/prophet/unknown idiot].

Galatians 1.19 claims James the Apostle was the brother of the LORD GOD of the Jews.

Galatians 1.19 uses the Nomina Sacra for the Lord God of the Jews.

The HJ argument is the very worst argument known to mankind.

The NT, including the Pauline Corpus, was used to argue AGAINST an historical Jesus [a mere man with a human father] since at least the 2nd century.
 
1 Corinthians 9:5
Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas?
Galatians 1:19
I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother.

The first of these suggests that the Lord's brothers were not apostles, and the second raises the possibility that James was one, but it may not in fact mean that. These are the only two occurrences of the expression "Lord's Brothers" in NIV, and they explicitly exclude Apostles and Cephas from the category of Lord's Brothers. Yet these were unquestionably "followers of Jesus", so the two things can't be synonymous.

I suggest looking at biblehub which allows you to compare on one page a huge amount of how passages are translated.

I go for the KJV simply because there are a lot of people who consider that as THE definitive translation of the Bible but Bible hub shows we have major problems here.

Galatians 1:19

The only other apostle I met at that time was James, the Lord's brother. - NLT

But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. - KJV

In these versions James is clearly identified as an apostle.
 
I have already admitted that you write established fiction but you still write more.

People here can read what gMark says.
Not in this post they can't, since you are not quoting Mark.
We have QUESTIONS in gMark about Jesus.
Rhetorical questions. You know it means he was a carpenter according to Mark
Mark 13:55
There is no such thing as Mark 13:55, but here is Mark 6:3
Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
This describes him as a carpenter. I know you will say it doesn't but that's crazy.
According to Christians of antiquity Jesus was NOT ever described as a carpenter in the Gospels and had NO brother called James the Apostle.
I have never said they did. No passage in the gospels says "Jesus had a brother called James the Apostle". You are now intentionally repeating misrepresentations which I have already dealt with, and I will not respond again until you apologise for that incivility, and start conversing in good faith.
 
There is no such thing as Mark 13:55, but here is Mark 6:3

Likely meant Matthew 13:55 which says the same thing.


This describes him as a carpenter. I know you will say it doesn't but that's crazy.

Actually as pointed out a long time ago that is not what the passages actually say.

The now defunct Jesus Police web site was a treasure trove of information like this:

"...the Greek word for 'carpenter' in the gospels actually stands for an underlying Aramaic term that is used metaphorically in the Talmud to denote a scholar." (Porter, 2004, p. 81)

"In the Gospels, Jesus is called a tekton, a Greek word that meant not merely a carpenter skilled in making cabinets or furniture but a designer, construction engineer, or architect. A tekton could build a house, construct a bridge, or design a temple." (Starbird, 2003, p. 53)


"It is highly unlikely that Jesus was a carpenter. If we examine the 48 parables that occur in the Gospels, not a single one draws upon the experiences of a carpenter. Three of them refer to buildings (e.g., house divided, foolish builder, unfinished tower), and these may offer support for the idea that Jesus’ father was a builder, not a carpenter" - Jesus was a Carpenter "Error"

No passage in the gospels says "Jesus had a brother called James the Apostle".


Well not that exact wording but you DO have Galatians 1:19 translated as:

The only other apostle I met at that time was James, the Lord's brother. - NLT

But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. - KJV

But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother. - NAS

The point is many translations of Galatians 1:19 DO identify James the Lord's brother as an apostle. You can hem and haw but that is how it is rendered. :boggled:
 
Not in this post they can't, since you are not quoting Mark. Rhetorical questions. You know it means he was a carpenter according to Mark There is no such thing as Mark 13:55, but here is Mark 6:3 This describes him as a carpenter. I know you will say it doesn't but that's crazy. I have never said they did. No passage in the gospels says "Jesus had a brother called James the Apostle". You are now intentionally repeating misrepresentations which I have already dealt with, and I will not respond again until you apologise for that incivility, and start conversing in good faith.


Craig - a huge problem in trying to analyse any of the quotes and sentences from the bible in the way that you are doing (and that we all do to some extent), is that you/we/anyone are relying on whatever you have read as a modern translation by someone.

But as you know, there are disagreements between those various translators as to what the correct translation should really be. As well as different original manuscripts being used and which actually say slightly different things, e.g. using different words in the actual texts themselves.

But as far as Jesus being known as a carpenter is concerned - I don't recall anything in the gospels or letters of Paul that describes anyone ever talking about the carpentry that Jesus had produced! This is a "carpenter" who apparently never did any woodwork ... iirc there are no mentions at all of disciples saying they had been with Jesus when he was making a set drawers or making a kitchen table or whatever. Afaik, there is no credible claim in the bible of Jesus actually doing any woodwork to make anything.

And on the question of James or anyone else as an actual brother of Jesus - you are really hanging absolutely everything on that one remark in a letter of Paul which you and other HJ posters (and all biblical scholars), claim as pre-dating the gospels and being written circa.50-60 AD. But we have discussed before how and why there are multiple problems with that singe line in just one of Paul's letters.

1. It was said only once in just one of the "genuine" letters, and never again repeated by Paul anywhere.

2. The half-sentence does not actually mention Jesus or say that James was a family brother of Jesus. It just says "other apostles saw I none, save James the lords brother"

3. According to Richard Carrier in his 2015 book, which is peer reviewed, i.e. checked and agreed by international experts in this field of Jesus historicity, Carrier says that there is evidence to show that the term "brothers of the lord" actually just designated people (inc. "apostles") who had been baptised in the correct way (e.g. perhaps by John the Baptist).

4. That single line in Paul's letter comes at the very end of a sentence where it is the easiest point to add an explanatory remark or alteration, and is worded in the form as if it was an afterthought to explain who James was. That is as if the original writer had only written "other apostles saw I none" or perhaps written only "other apostles saw I none, save James" ... and then someone (the original writer or later copyists) had decided that it was necessary to explain who James was, and added the words "the lords brother".

That is - it is written as if the writer, or writers/copyists", had meant to write "I saw no other apostles ... oh, except for James, I forgot to mention him ... oh and I should also add that James was the lords brother". It's written in that from as if the name James was added as an explanatory afterthought, and then the words "lords brother" again added as another later afterthought.

5. In describing that meeting, Paul says not a single word about ever asking James about his brother Jesus! And he mentions not a single word to say that James had ever told him anything at all about Jesus. In fact iirc, "Jesus" is never mentioned there at all. That is very surprising if Paul really thought that James was the actual family brother of Jesus. Because Paul was someone whose life had recently been changed completely by a revelation from God telling him that Jesus was the true messiah and God's own Son ... this was an event so cataclysmic that it changed everything that Paul ever subsequently said and did 24/7 ... after his vision he did nothing else except preach Jesus all day long every day to everyone ... this was by far the most important event in Paul's life ... and yet when just a few years later he meets the actual brother of the son of God, he asks not a single thing about Jesus, and the brother offers to tell Paul not one single word about Jesus!

6. That same "James" supposedly wrote his own gospel. It was afaik a gospel entirely concerned with belief in Jesus as the Son of God. And yet in his very own gospel, James never even claims to have ever met anyone called Jesus, let alone any claim to have been his family brother.

7. Afaik, that half-sentence comes from, or is included, in P46, which is the earliest extant copy of Paul's letters, said to date to c.200 AD. But that is a copy, i.e. written by Christian copyists around 150 years after Paul had died. So it's perfectly possible that when the copyists wrote those words "other apostles saw I none" ... the copyist, or in fact various successive copyists, may have added the explanation parts saying "save James" ... and then adding "the lords brother".

Why should we think that copyists had altered that sentence? Well it's obvious - firstly out of 13 or 14 letters all once claimed to have been written by Paul himself, we now know that around half of them were never written by "Paul" at all. Instead they are not merely copies with lots of "interpolations", the whole thing is one complete "interpolation", i.e. those letters are "fakes" written by anonymous Christians falsely posing as Paul.

And of course, even the most Christian of biblical scholars and theologians, who specialise in writing on the historicity of Jesus, all admit that the biblical writing was subject to later "interpolations", additions, deletions and alterations of various words and sentences, by later copyists who simply changed what was originally written whenever they or their pay-masters decided that the original writing was incorrect or where they did not like what was originally written and wanted it to say something else instead.
 
"...the Greek word for 'carpenter' in the gospels actually stands for an underlying Aramaic term that is used metaphorically in the Talmud to denote a scholar." (Porter, 2004, p. 81)

"In the Gospels, Jesus is called a tekton, a Greek word that meant not merely a carpenter skilled in making cabinets or furniture but a designer, construction engineer, or architect. A tekton could build a house, construct a bridge, or design a temple." (Starbird, 2003, p. 53)


"It is highly unlikely that Jesus was a carpenter. If we examine the 48 parables that occur in the Gospels, not a single one draws upon the experiences of a carpenter. Three of them refer to buildings (e.g., house divided, foolish builder, unfinished tower), and these may offer support for the idea that Jesus’ father was a builder, not a carpenter" - Jesus was a Carpenter "Error"
...
But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother. - NAS

The point is many translations of Galatians 1:19 DO identify James the Lord's brother as an apostle. You can hem and haw but that is how it is rendered. :boggled:
So he was a builder, not a carpenter; so some versions call this brother of the Lord an apostle. So what? It makes no difference to my argument. It does to dejudge's though, so maybe he'll get back to you on this.
 
"in 1983 Geza Vermes suggested that, given that the use of the term in the Talmud, "carpenter" can signify a very learned man, the New Testament description of Joseph as a carpenter could indicate that he was considered wise and literate in the Torah.[6] This theory was later popularized by A. N. Wilson to suggest that Jesus had some sort of elevated status.[7][8]

" ... in later Talmudic texts where the term "craftsman" is used a metaphor for a skilled handler of the word of God."[13][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekt%C5%8Dn#Hebrew_naggar_interpretation

6 Geza Vermes (1983) Jesus the Jew: a historian's reading of the Gospels, p.21. ISBN 0961614846

7 AN. Wilson (2003). Jesus. Random House UK. pp. 82–. ISBN 978-0-7126-0697-4. Retrieved 17 November 2012., Page 29: "The term translated into English as 'carpenter' represents the much wider sense of the ancient Greek, ho tekton, which is a rendition of the Semitic word naggar.5 As pointed out by the Semitic scholar Dr. Geza Vermes, this descriptive word [naggar] could perhaps be applied to a trade craftsman, but could equally well define a scholar."

8 Larry W. Hurtado (2005). Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. pp. 319–. ISBN 978-0-8028-3167-5

13 Krisztina Stangle, John Stangle (2006) Finding Our Way Together p.308 "Geza Vermes highlights ]the Aramaic use of the term carpenter or craftsman (“naggar”) to metaphorically describe a “scholar” or “learned man” in Talmudic sayings (cf. Geza Vermes, Jesus the Jew, (London: Collins, 1983) p.21.) .."

14 Douglas Welker Kennard (2007) Messiah Jesus: Christology in His Day and Ours' p.71 "However, if this term is dependent upon the Aramaic nagger (craftsman), the Talmud later takes this metaphor to refer to 'scholar' or 'learned man,' that is, a rabbi.11 Such a later Talmudic meaning would place Jesus within a rabbinically schooled family but there seems to be some surprise among Jewish priests, ..."
 
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There is no such thing as Mark 13:55, but here is Mark.

There is a thing called Jesus who WALKED on WATER in gMark 6.

There is a thing called Jesus who TRANSFIGURED in gMark 9.

Craig B said:
Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

This describes him as a carpenter. I know you will say it doesn't but that's crazy.

gMark does not describe Jesus as a carpenter. The author ASKED QUESTIONS.

The author of gMatthew shows that Jesus was NOT described as a carpenter because the QUESTION was asked if Jesus was the carpenter's son.


Mark 6:3--- Isn’t this the carpenter?.....

Matthew 13:55 ---“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son?.....

Was Jesus the carpenter, the carpenter's son or a carpenter of a carpenter?

gMatthew exposes your fallacies!!! Questions are NOT descriptions. Questions denote confusion or uncertainty until answered.

Now, continue to read gMark 6.

Jesus is DESCRIBED as a LAKE WATER WALKER.

Mark 6 .47-51
47 Later that night, the boat was in the middle of the lake, and he was alone on land. He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them.

Shortly before dawn he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them, but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out, because they all saw him and were terrified.

Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down.

Jesus was NOT human in gMark 6.

Without question Jesus was thought to be a Ghost [not a carpenter] when he was WALKING on the LAKE in gMark 6.

gMark's Jesus is a myth/fiction character.

Mark 9:2 [ The Transfiguration ]
After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them.

Jesus was in the company of Satan in gMark and was also Lake walking TRANSFIGURER WITHOUT QUESTION.
 
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gMark does not describe Jesus as a carpenter. The author ASKED QUESTIONS.

The author of gMatthew shows that Jesus was NOT described as a carpenter because the QUESTION was asked if Jesus was the carpenter's son.
It was rhetorically asked if he was not the carpenter's son. That's a normal Biblical way of stating an affirmative, as has always been known to Biblical commentators, and some translate this sort of construction as a plain statement. Here's Deuteronomy 3:11, to enlighten you in this matter. Some hope! But I think you're probably the only person in the world with this particular delusion. The passage is about the location of a giant bed.

GOD'S WORD Translation
Of the Rephaim only King Og of Bashan was left. His bed was made of iron and was more than 13 feet long and 6 feet wide. It is still in the Ammonite city of Rabbah.
Jubilee Bible 2000
For only Og, king of Bashan, had remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the sons of Ammon? Nine cubits was the length thereof and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
American King James Version
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
Douay-Rheims Bible
For only Og king of Basan remained of the race of the giants. His bed of iron is shewn, which is in Rabbath of the children of Ammon, being nine cubits long, and four broad after the measure of the cubit of a man's hand.
 
Wow! Is that how they did things? What a bunch of crooks.


Flippant remarks are just no use here. And especially not when as above, they are 100% devoid of any actual content.

Are you arguing that that later copyists were in fact not known to have been in the habit of altering things when they copied the original earlier writing?

Because if you are claiming anything remotely like that, then you in complete disagreement with every bible scholar and theologian who has ever written on this subject (as well as being in major dispute with every sceptical writer who has ever written on this subject, all of whom have emphasised the unreliability of those later copyists and their alterations/interpolations).

I have just given you a whole load logical fully explained reasons why it's extremely unwise and clearly unsafe to assume that one single half-sentence in a later copyist version of one of Paul's letters, with an obviously ambiguous remark that does not even mention Jesus, is as you are claiming perfectly good evidence that Jesus was a real human person known to people ... but where none of those people actually ever did claim to have known anyone called Jesus.

Paul did of course say he had "witnessed" Jesus, but that was only after Jesus was dead! What Paul meant by saying he had "witnessed" Jesus, was that he had a visionary religious belief in Jesus as a spiritual being communicating from the heavens!

He (Paul) says "the twelve" had also witnessed their own spiritual belief in a heavenly Jesus. But notice that "the twelve", who were supposedly the 12 original disciples or apostles who accompanied Jesus, included both Cephas (i.e. "Peter") and "James" ... and yet, after saying that the 12 apostles had witnessed Jesus, he says that Cephas had also witnessed Jesus (so Cephas now seems to have "witnessed" Jesus twice in two completely different contexts!), and then he says that "James" had also witnessed Jesus, even though he just told us that James had previously witnessed Jesus because he was one of "the twelve".

But apart from confusions like that, as to who witnessed Jesus, and when they witnessed him and what context (i.e. as part of the twelve, or later as individuals), you might think it rather strange that Paul felt it necessary to tell us that James had witnessed a spiritual Jesus without adding that of course James had "witnessed" a living Jesus throughout his whole life as his family brother! (and similarly not bothering to add that Cephas had of course not just witnessed only a spiritual belief in Jesus, but had in fact been a personal friend of the living Jesus and had been accompanying him on all his preaching trips all over the region).

I am not saying that issues such as the above prove that Jesus was mythical. But what I am saying is that the gospels and letters of the bible are full on inconsistencies and ambiguous muddled issues of that sort. Which are frankly more what we should expect if people were writing embellished religious fiction rather than writing actual accounts of real events remembered by any true factual living witnesses.
 
It was rhetorically asked if he was not the carpenter's son.
if this term - ho tekton - is dependent upon the Aramaic nagger (craftsman), the Talmud takes this as a metaphor to refer to 'scholar' or 'learned man,' that is, a rabbi.

Douglas Welker Kennard (2007) Messiah Jesus: Christology in His Day and Ours

The implication is the narrative was building a bigger theological story.
 
if this term - ho tekton - is dependent upon the Aramaic nagger (craftsman), the Talmud takes this as a metaphor to refer to 'scholar' or 'learned man,' that is, a rabbi.

Douglas Welker Kennard (2007) Messiah Jesus: Christology in His Day and Ours

The implication is the narrative was building a bigger theological story.
The tone of the whole passage militates against such a view, in the strongest and plainest way. Jesus is being belittled - it's like: who does this guy think he is? His family live here among us, after all. By what right does he come here to teach us this fancy stuff?

And he can't even work miracles because of their lack of faith.
 
dejudge said:
gMark does not describe Jesus as a carpenter. The author ASKED QUESTIONS.

The author of gMatthew shows that Jesus was NOT described as a carpenter because the QUESTION was asked if Jesus was the carpenter's son.

It was rhetorically asked if he was not the carpenter's son.

gMatthew has exposed your fallacious rhetoric. You write more imaginative fiction.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

That thing called Jesus is a Ghost baby.

The very same gMatthew which asked the questions tells us WITHOUT question that Jesus was the son of a Ghost.

Is Jesus the son of a carpenter or the son of a Ghost in the myth fables called gMatthew??

Answer the questions.

Matthew 1:18--- Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
 
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The very same gMatthew which asked the questions tells us WITHOUT question that Jesus was the son of a Ghost.
That's because there's more than one source of material in Matthew. Did you know that, dejudge? Jesus was the son of a ghost, and the son of a carpenter, and the son of David. It's a kind of mish mash of different pieces of contradictory stories.
 
The tone of the whole passage militates against such a view, in the strongest and plainest way. Jesus is being belittled - it's like: who does this guy think he is? His family live here among us, after all. By what right does he come here to teach us this fancy stuff?

And he can't even work miracles because of their lack of faith.

Do you think he actually could work miracles, given enough faith in the bystanders?
 
dejudge said:
The very same gMatthew which asked the questions tells us WITHOUT question that Jesus was the son of a Ghost.

That's because there's more than one source of material in Matthew. Did you know that, dejudge? Jesus was the son of a ghost, and the son of a carpenter, and the son of David. It's a kind of mish mash of different pieces of contradictory stories.

You are a 'convict' of your own RHETORIC.

Is not Jesus the son of a Ghost in gMatthew?

Was not Jesus walking on the Lake like a Ghost in gMark?

[Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


Mark 6---49 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:

50 For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid.


Jesus was a Ghost in the myth/fiction fables called the New Testament.
 
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You are a 'convict' of your own RHETORIC.

Is not Jesus the son of a Ghost in gMatthew?

Was not Jesus walking on the Lake like a Ghost in gMark?



Jesus was a Ghost in the myth/fiction fables called the New Testament.
I think you're starting to become repetitive dejudge.

Perhaps you could discuss the different sources in the Synoptic Gospels, and we can see if they contain equally implausible material. So far, the guy is either a water walking transfiguring ghost who created the universe, or he's a crazy rabbi with a family in Galilee. Is there any way of deciding which of these characters is most plausible?
 
I think you're starting to become repetitive dejudge.

Perhaps you could discuss the different sources in the Synoptic Gospels, and we can see if they contain equally implausible material. So far, the guy is either a water walking transfiguring ghost who created the universe, or he's a crazy rabbi with a family in Galilee. Is there any way of deciding which of these characters is most plausible?


He was a fictive protagonist in a collection of contradictory fables full of fabricated magic and supernatural claptrap on top of hearsay of further hearsay of magic and supernatural demons and devils and rapist-gods and adulterating holy poltergeists and demigods who gestate inside the wombs of the progeny of a Babylonian peripatetic illegal immigrant coward who pimped his half-sister-wife and a delusional huckster who went around claiming to be god and walked about pretending to be a walking dead zombie.

The 1001 Arabian nights had similar tall tales and yet I do not see you so hot under the collar trying to prove Sinbad The Sailor was a real historic sailor and getting so hostile and irrational when someone points out how imbecilic such a pursuit is to the point of wishing they had lobotomies.

So why all the special pleading and bellicose ad hominems and belligerent illogic and utter wishful thinking?

Why are you not so interested in proving that Ali Baba or Sinbad were real persons as you are in establishing an even more fantastical tall tale to have had some "core truth"?

Couldn't the 1001 nights have had a core truth too and Scheherazade was a real person who just exaggerated a little the real story of the real Sinbad?

[imgw=400]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Scheherezade_tells_her_stories.jpg[/imgw]

[imgw=400]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Ali-Baba.jpg[/imgw]

[imgw=400]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Sinbad_1.jpg[/imgw]

[imgw=400]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Trevisani_baptism_christ.JPG[/imgw]
 
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