Prostitution by any other name?

[Darat]

BBC News: The women seeking rich older men to pay their university fees

"It's been euphemistically referred to as "mutually beneficial, transactional dating" but is the growing world of "sugar daddy" relationships just a sanitised term for sex work?

Freya is 22 and wearing jogging bottoms and a tatty T-shirt. She expresses herself unaffectedly and confidently.

She decided to start sleeping with older men for money while she was at university. "I love sex," says Freya. "And you know, I'm pretty good at it. So getting a sugar daddy - or two - was a no-brainer really."

Freya is one of a growing number of debt-ridden university students in the UK who have decided to become "sugar babies". These young women agree to be wined and dined by rich, older men who are known as "sugar daddies", in return for cash and gifts.

"My married sugar daddy gave me about £1,000 a night," says Freya reflectively. "He was just in it for the sex. My divorced sugar daddy gave me between £1,000 and £2,000 as an allowance." "

Sounds just like the old fashioned "mistress" to me.

 

[Lerxst]

Sounds like the drug dealer model. Get 'em hooked on freebies then start charging.

Who knows, maybe some of these people are delusional and don't understand what they're doing. I would find it hard to definitively define it as prostitution (particularly in the criminal sense) in that case, though it probably is.

I wouldn't call it charging. They don't get a bill. It's understood though that if the relationship is to continue he better start buying her stuff and paying her bills. the fact that he can is the main reason she's with him and not someone else in the first place.

Prostitution is much more of a direct transaction.

 

[Lerxst]

Hell, I can't blame anybody for taking advantage of such an arrangement. I would if I could, hands down.

But I'm also not of the opinion that prostitution is necessarily bad.

Neither am I. Carlin used to say "How can it be illegal to sell something that is perfectly legal to give away?" And he had a point.

 

[Babbylonian]

I wouldn't call it charging. They don't get a bill. It's understood though that if the relationship is to continue he better start buying her stuff and paying her bills. the fact that he can is the main reason she's with him and not someone else in the first place.

That's a distinction without much of a difference. Sex for money is still the bottom line. Saying it's not prostitution is just trying to make someone feel better and/or avoid criminal liability.

 

[blutoski]

Neither am I. Carlin used to say "How can it be illegal to sell something that is perfectly legal to give away?" And he had a point.

Well... half a point. I can give up my children to adoption, but it would probably be immoral to sell them. I can donate my liver to save a life, but it would be pretty unethical to ask the patient to sign over his house to me in exchange.

We do have a recognizable ethical boundary when it comes to selling access to our bodies.

 

[Lerxst]

That's a distinction without much of a difference. Sex for money is still the bottom line. Saying it's not prostitution is just trying to make someone feel better and/or avoid criminal liability.

It's all the difference that is needed for the law.

 

[blutoski]

Sounds just like the old fashioned "mistress" to me.

That's the part of the article that puzzled me the most... "growing world of 'sugar daddy' relationships" - "growing"?

My impression at (as of a week ago) 47 years old is that we've made a lot of progress and women have considerably better scholarship and student loan and income opportunities than they did in any previous generation. This is a declining phenomenon from what I can observe.

 

[casebro]

Carlin used to say "How can it be illegal to sell something that is perfectly legal to give away?"

In the days of George's youth, it was illegal to give it away in lots of places too. Except between married couples.

The laws against prostitution, and giving it away, were probably passed to maintain the sanctity of marriage. I suppose they will be falling aside soon now that marriage is not considered strictly "for the children".

 

[cullennz]

Pretty cruisey job and you pay no tax.

Who wouldn't?

 

[Puppycow]

In the Anglosphere it's called a "Sugar Daddy". Nowadays there are even websites for connecting these people. In Japan it's called enjo kosai.

£1,000/night though? I doubt that's the norm. If I were a young lady that kind of money would be very tempting.

 

[marplots]

Neither am I. Carlin used to say "How can it be illegal to sell something that is perfectly legal to give away?" And he had a point.

You mean like an Academy Award or the right to hold the World Cup?

 

[marplots]

It does make sense. If your regular daddy can't pay for your college, get one who can.

 

[Puppycow]

BBC News: The women seeking rich older men to pay their university fees

"It's been euphemistically referred to as "mutually beneficial, transactional dating" but is the growing world of "sugar daddy" relationships just a sanitised term for sex work?

Freya is 22 and wearing jogging bottoms and a tatty T-shirt. She expresses herself unaffectedly and confidently.

She decided to start sleeping with older men for money while she was at university. "I love sex," says Freya. "And you know, I'm pretty good at it. So getting a sugar daddy - or two - was a no-brainer really."

Freya is one of a growing number of debt-ridden university students in the UK who have decided to become "sugar babies". These young women agree to be wined and dined by rich, older men who are known as "sugar daddies", in return for cash and gifts.

"My married sugar daddy gave me about £1,000 a night," says Freya reflectively. "He was just in it for the sex. My divorced sugar daddy gave me between £1,000 and £2,000 as an allowance." "

So I suppose I should ask since you started the thread, do you think this sort of think should be illegal? Should police be cracking down on it?

If you want to call it prostitution or any other word, I don't really care.

OTOH, if what you are saying here is that it's prostitution and therefore it's a proper matter for the police and the law to intervene in, that would be a different discussion entirely.

 

[Arcade22]

Hmmm.. So where is the line?

What line?

How is this different from supporting someone financially that you also have sex with?

The difference is whether they receive money because of the sex or in spite of it.

If they stopped having sex would the money dry up? If the money stopped flowing would their sexual relationship continue?

Such a definition would apply to many committed relationships would it not?

Sure but i don't see that as necessarily problematic.

So, marriage is prostitution?

If someone gets married and has sex with their spouse with the sole, or at least primary, motivation of receiving money/valuables/etc then i have no problem describing such a relationship as nothing but glorified prostitution.

 

[blutoski]

If someone gets married and has sex with their spouse with the sole, or at least primary, motivation of receiving money/valuables/etc then i have no problem describing such a relationship as nothing but glorified prostitution.

Mail Order Bride is another example. Husband is providing citizenship instead of cash.

 

[Information Analyst]

That's a distinction without much of a difference. Sex for money is still the bottom line. Saying it's not prostitution is just trying to make someone feel better and/or avoid criminal liability.

The latter is an interesting angle in this instant. The article notes that the websites that facilitate this sort of thing are quite cagey, because if it was deemed prostitution, it would be those running the sites who would be breaking the law. Prostitution in itself is not illegal in the UK*, but soliciting and controlling it are.

* Certainly in England and Wales, and I'm pretty sure Scotland, as well; NI may differ.

 

[Information Analyst]

That's the part of the article that puzzled me the most... "growing world of 'sugar daddy' relationships" - "growing"?

My impression at (as of a week ago) 47 years old is that we've made a lot of progress and women have considerably better scholarship and student loan and income opportunities than they did in any previous generation. This is a declining phenomenon from what I can observe.

Not really a factor in the UK. Post-WW2 students could get (non-returnable) grants to cover costs; these have been largely replaced with loans. I think this is more a case of a small number of female students tapping an income source that male students generally can't, at least not to the same degree.

 

[Information Analyst]

So I suppose I should ask since you started the thread, do you think this sort of think should be illegal?

No, and it wouldn't be, even if it was classed as prostitution, at least not for the women themselves.

Should police be cracking down on it?

No, as above.

If you want to call it prostitution or any other word, I don't really care.

OTOH, if what you are saying here is that it's prostitution and therefore it's a proper matter for the police and the law to intervene in, that would be a different discussion entirely.

No, to me this is more about morality and social attitudes.

 

[Information Analyst]

But, what, is there nothing happening in Britain right now? The furor over Prince Whatever's crocs died down too early, and the BBC editors panicked and pulled something from the Slow News Day file?

That's a rather fatuous thing to say. The BBC operates six TV channels, five national radio stations (this report is for one of them), and numerous local ones. They are the largest news gathering organisation in the world, and they have a far wider remit than celebrity gossip, and whatever has exploded or been shot in the last 24 hours.

 

[cullennz]

Different classes of mistresses have been going on for centuries.

They used to be even respected.

This is no different

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