Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

[Axiom_Blade]

You consider him to be the one being a jerk in this situation?! really?

There can be more than one jerk here. Yes, some of the people in the audience were out of hand. Yelling back at them like an angry grandpa is not a good reaction, especially when you are a US senator.

 

[Trakar]

There can be more than one jerk here. Yes, some of the people in the audience were out of hand. Yelling back at them like an angry grandpa is not a good reaction, especially when you are a US senator.

I, personally, thought his response was measured and appropriate, and I am not a very strong supporter of modern Israel.

 

[Chuck Guiteau]

I’m sure it probably reminded you of something different, but I guess we all see what we look for at least to some extent.

I suppose you could be right. After all, don't most socialists look to the Republican Party for policy guidance?

As for the 90% rate, I believe Bernie Sanders has said that he could back such a rate, but the only rate I can find him stating was around 50%. I do know that Teddy Roosevelt gave many speeches about the need for a highly progressive income tax and a hardline estate tax to reverse the problems caused by increasing income inequity and the dangers that concentrated wealth played in undermining and corrupting politics and governance. But again we're probably thinking of different things here.

The article you linked to used "possibly as high as 90%",IIRC. But that has nothing to do with my question.
At 50% (or choose any percentage you feel comfortable with), how much revenue will it generate, and who will it apply to?

 

[dudalb]

God, I hope we don't get overran by spam from the Bernie worshippers.

 

[caveman1917]

I can't wait to have him get an opportunity to explain "Democratic Socialism" to a nation-wide audience.

I just wish they'd stop randomly applying labels to ideologies in such a non historic and inconsistent fashion.

 

[dudalb]

And the reason I loathe Ralph Nader regardless of anything good he may ever have done. Anyone running for Dem/Pres . needs to have enough chance to beat any one of the slime called republickers running to be viable.

WHich Bernie does not have.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I just wish they'd stop randomly applying labels to ideologies in such a non historic and inconsistent fashion.

Doesn't Sanders himself call it "Democratic Socialism"?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

The crossover appeal is something Bernie certainly has. I can't wait to have him get an opportunity to explain "Democratic Socialism" to a nation-wide audience. Many non-voters and even "republicans" might agree that it actually is a good thing.

That's actually my big fear. He doesn't know what it is.

 

[caveman1917]

Doesn't Sanders himself call it "Democratic Socialism"?

Yes indeed. Socialism is anti-capitalist and collectivist, Sanders is not a socialist. So I'm hoping he changes his label before he gets to push the error nationwide. Otherwise it'll just be arguing ad infinitum against the stream, like with the "libertarian" and other labels.

 

[Trakar]

Doesn't Sanders himself call it "Democratic Socialism"?

I've heard both ways attributed to him: "Democratic socialist" and "Socialist Democrat" according to the definitions I'm most familiar with he would seem to be more of a Social Democrat. I, however, prefer to let people define themselves, and am more concerned about the characteristics than the labels.

 

[Trakar]

I just wish they'd stop randomly applying labels to ideologies in such a non historic and inconsistent fashion.

Kinda like modern US conservatives constantly trying to redefine Socialist, Communist, liberal, progressive, libertarian and even conservative?

 

[Trakar]

God, I hope we don't get overran by spam from the Bernie worshippers.

"Oui?" who you talking about frenchy, this is a pro Sanders thread.

 

[Trakar]

I suppose you could be right. After all, don't most socialists look to the Republican Party for policy guidance?

The article you linked to used "possibly as high as 90%",IIRC. But that has nothing to do with my question.
At 50% (or choose any percentage you feel comfortable with), how much revenue will it generate, and who will it apply to?

I don't know about socialists, but the world's first progressive party was the Republican party and there are still many progressive roots in republican party and philosophy, Regardless of the modern conservative blinders that deny this truth to party newcomers.

 

[caveman1917]

I, however, prefer to let people define themselves, and am more concerned about the characteristics than the labels.

If people can't be bothered to look up a label before using it then they shouldn't use it to define themselves by.

Socialism:

Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy,[1][2] as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.

How hard can this be?

 

[caveman1917]

Kinda like modern US conservatives constantly trying to redefine Socialist, Communist, liberal, progressive, libertarian and even conservative?

Sure, the whole shebang of politicians and political commentators, but I can hardly blame Sanders for all of that. Don't get me wrong, Sanders seems like a good choice, relatively speaking.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

If people can't be bothered to look up a label before using it then they shouldn't use it to define themselves by.

Socialism:


How hard can this be?

He's not calling himself a "socialist"; he's calling himself a "democratic socialist". There's a big difference. Hey, it's not like he invented the term.

 

[caveman1917]

He's not calling himself a "socialist"; he's calling himself a "democratic socialist".

Yes, incorrectly.

There's a big difference.

No there isn't, at least not relevant to the point. Socialism is implicitly understood as democratic socialism, perhaps excluding the people that, in response to say universal healthcare, go "OMG GULAGS!".

Hey, it's not like he invented the term.

A reason more not to abuse it like that, there are probably already people using it.

 

[Chuck Guiteau]

I don't know about socialists, but the world's first progressive party was the Republican party and there are still many progressive roots in republican party and philosophy, Regardless of the modern conservative blinders that deny this truth to party newcomers.

You've come to the staggering conclusion that not all Republicans are arch conservatives. Good for you!
Now how about answering the question I keep asking you?

 

[Trakar]

You've come to the staggering conclusion that not all Republicans are arch conservatives. Good for you!
Now how about answering the question I keep asking you?

Actually, no, and as an old-school progressive Republican, I am rather sure of the opposite, my party is not as diverse as it was traditionally, the current distortion, however, is not necessarily terminal, unless we allow that to happen.

 

[Chuck Guiteau]

Actually, no, and as an old-school progressive Republican, I am rather sure of the opposite, my party is not as diverse as it was traditionally, the current distortion, however, is not necessarily terminal, unless we allow that to happen.

Why do you keep avoiding the question?