Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

[grunion]

Dear Bernie:

Please join the 21st Century and learn to type.

Supporter

Snark - what an inventive way to respond to something you don't feel like responding to substantively. And it's easy too! No thinking involved! Even easier would be to not respond at all.

 

[Corsair 115]

Snark - what an inventive way to respond to something you don't feel like responding to substantively. And it's easy too! No thinking involved! Even easier would be to not respond at all.

Or, you know, he's just making a joke.

 

[Mark6]

Snark - what an inventive way to respond to something you don't feel like responding to substantively. And it's easy too! No thinking involved! Even easier would be to not respond at all.

I am responding substantively. Ever since Bernie Sanders announced his candidacy, I knew I would be voting for him. I am a supporter. I also think this handwritten letter is hokey, and is not helping Sanders in any way.

 

[caveman1917]

Sounds both revolutionary and fantastic, of course campaign promises are notoriously easy to make and hard to fulfill, but it is definitely a plan I can support from top to bottom without hesitation.

About the "breaking up the big banks", in Belgium we had a national bank (ie government-run, not for-profit) for over a hundred years without any major problems. About 15 years after privatization it came crashing down. So there's another idea to consider.

 

[caveman1917]

I am sincerely afraid if we don't have a political revolution within the next 5 years (give or take) we will have a literal revolution. People left with nothing have nothing left to lose. The French Aristocracy found that out the hard way. I'd rather not have that happen here.

Did you know that wealth inequality in the current-day US is as high as it was in France that time?

 

[grunion]

I am responding substantively. Ever since Bernie Sanders announced his candidacy, I knew I would be voting for him. I am a supporter. I also think this handwritten letter is hokey, and is not helping Sanders in any way.

I do not think your response was substantive in any way, unless you really meant that you think Sanders handwrote the letter because he doesn't know how to type.

 

[Mark6]

First, I find it entirely plausible that Bernie Sanders cannot type. A lot of people his age cannot. My mother is 70, and she types very poorly because she had to learn so late in life.

But this is besides the point. Whether Sanders can type or not, the letter is hokey. It is difficult to read and distracts from the message. It certainly will not turn me off Sanders, but someone who is wavering about him might say "What an asinine thing to do!" and turn to Hillary.

In short, I think this letter is counterproductive. If he really cannot type, he should get someone to do it for him. Note that the age group most vital for him is also the one least likely to decipher his handwriting.

 

[Mark6]

Since Sanders is an atheist, none that BS gets in his way, but of course he has none of their support. I will gladly support him, if I think he has a snowball's chance of getting elected, but the non-religious thing is still a pretty powerful negative in the US of A.

How do you know Sanders is an atheist? He was born Jewish, and to the best of my knowledge never claimed to be atheist.

It is entirely possible he is an atheist, but keeps it quiet for the very reasons you mentioned.

 

[Trakar]

First, I find it entirely plausible that Bernie Sanders cannot type. A lot of people his age cannot. My mother is 70, and she types very poorly because she had to learn so late in life.

But this is besides the point. Whether Sanders can type or not, the letter is hokey. It is difficult to read and distracts from the message. It certainly will not turn me off Sanders, but someone who is wavering about him might say "What an asinine thing to do!" and turn to Hillary.

In short, I think this letter is counterproductive. If he really cannot type, he should get someone to do it for him. Note that the age group most vital for him is also the one least likely to decipher his handwriting.

I'm sure that Sanders can type, he was an aspiring author. Many people our age (and I'm not quite that old, but not too far away) feel however, that hand-written missives are much more powerful and personal than a typed message that could easily be a computer/word processor produced form letter (I bet many of you think that computer/word processer is redundant). Personally, I like the idea of a hand-written campaign donation solicitation.

 

[Corsair 115]

First, I find it entirely plausible that Bernie Sanders cannot type. A lot of people his age cannot. My mother is 70, and she types very poorly because she had to learn so late in life.

Er, before these newfangled computers came along, there were these things called typewriters, and they were pretty widely used in offices.

 

[grunion]

A typed missive could easily have been (and one assumes generally is) typed by staffers. A handwritten speech comes off far more genuine and honest. But I still say that your comment was snark "Let's dismiss the message by poking fun at the handwriting " (far more legible than mine, undoubtedly. )

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Bikewer]

In addition to an effort to address the seriously-declining national infrastructure, another source of ready jobs would be the adoption of the "smart grid" technologies that have been kicking around for a couple of years.
Essentially, greatly increasing local and even point production of electricity with the various technologies available now coupled into an extensive network of computer control which would "move production around".....Decreasing during low-demand periods, increasing during high-demand, etc. etc.

Most of the jobs involved in this sort of work are relatively simple installation and maintenance jobs with advanced computer engineering only needed for the actually running of the grid.
Fellow made a pretty good case for this sort of program on Diane Rehm last year.

Another might be the installation of smart irrigation on a large scale in drought-stricken areas. The way we irrigate is vastly inneficient.... Again by using computer-controlled "point of need" irrigation (down to individual plants) you can get by with far less water needed for irrigation.
Again, most of this sort of work is simple installation methods, laying lines, digging trenches, etc, etc.

 

[Trakar]

In addition to an effort to address the seriously-declining national infrastructure, another source of ready jobs would be the adoption of the "smart grid" technologies that have been kicking around for a couple of years.
Essentially, greatly increasing local and even point production of electricity with the various technologies available now coupled into an extensive network of computer control which would "move production around".....Decreasing during low-demand periods, increasing during high-demand, etc. etc.

Most of the jobs involved in this sort of work are relatively simple installation and maintenance jobs with advanced computer engineering only needed for the actually running of the grid.
Fellow made a pretty good case for this sort of program on Diane Rehm last year.

Another might be the installation of smart irrigation on a large scale in drought-stricken areas. The way we irrigate is vastly inneficient.... Again by using computer-controlled "point of need" irrigation (down to individual plants) you can get by with far less water needed for irrigation.
Again, most of this sort of work is simple installation methods, laying lines, digging trenches, etc, etc.

I like this. It is just one aspect of such issues. What do you see as the best way to do this? Federal contracts to private corporations or direct works programs where people are direct hired, trained and put to work? I see potential problems with some looking at using federal money to build the profits of private enterprise (spot irrigation systems), but in conjunction with putting farmer's water "on the meter," perhaps low/no interest loans for such systems could be made to work without riling too many feathers.

 

[Chuck Guiteau]

Sanders platform sounds a bit familiar. I think I've heard it before.
High progressive tax on the rich
State run healthcare
Nationalizing the banks
Massive state controlled employment
Five year plans
Where have I heard that before?

Be that as it may, I'd like something a little more substantive on a few issues. I'll start with that 90% marginal tax rate.
Just how much revenue would that generate, and where will it come from?
Specifics please.

 

[Trakar]

Sanders platform sounds a bit familiar. I think I've heard it before.
High progressive tax on the rich
State run healthcare
Nationalizing the banks
Massive state controlled employment
Five year plans
Where have I heard that before?
Be that as it may, I'd like something a little more substantive on a few issues. I'll start with that 90% marginal tax rate.
Just how much revenue would that generate, and where will it come from?
Specifics please.

Well, looking at Sander’s platform so far, I don’t see anything about “nationalizing banks.” And I suppose there are ways to twist other platforms such that these other discriptors might be misunderstood as appropriate. But, it did indeed sound familiar.

America's growth cannot be compartmentalized. Labor and management cannot prosper without each other. They cannot ignore their mutual public obligation.
Industrial harmony, expressing these mutual interests, can best be achieved in a climate of free collective bargaining, with minimal government intervention except by mediation and conciliation
(…)
Seven past years of accomplishments, however, are but a base to build upon in fostering, promoting and improving the welfare of America's working men and women, both organized and unorganized. We pledge, therefore, action on these constructive lines:
Diligent administration of the amended Labor-Management Relations Act of 1947 (Taft-Hartley Act) and the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act of 1959 (Landrum-Griffin Act) with recommendations for improvements which experience shows are needed to make them more effective or remove any inequities.
Correction of defects in the Welfare and Pension Plans Disclosure Act to protect employees' and beneficiaries' interests.
Upward revision in amount and extended coverage of the minimum wage to several million more workers.
Strengthening the unemployment insurance system and extension of its benefits.
Improvement of the eight-hour laws relating to hours and overtime compensation on federal and federally-assisted construction, and continued vigorous enforcement and improvement of minimum wage laws for federal supply and construction contracts.
Continued improvement of manpower skills and training to meet a new era of challenges, including action programs to aid older workers, women, youth, and the physically handicapped.
Encouragement of training programs by labor, industry and government to aid in finding new jobs for persons dislocated by automation or other economic changes.
Improvement of job opportunities and working conditions of migratory farm workers.
Assurance of equal pay for equal work regardless of sex; encouragement of programs to insure on-the-job safety, and encouragement of the States to improve their labor standards legislation, and to improve veterans' employment rights and benefits.
Encouragement abroad of free democratic institutions, higher living standards and higher wages through such agencies as the International Labor Organization, and cooperation with the free trade union movement in strengthening free labor throughout the world.

1 - excerpts from 1960 Republican Platform of President Eisenhower

We have fully resolved to continue our steady gains in man's unending struggle against disease and disability.
We have supported the distribution of free vaccine to protect millions of children against dreaded polio.
Republican leadership has enlarged Federal assistance for construction of hospitals, emphasizing low-cost care of chronic diseases and the special problems of older persons, and increased Federal aid for medical care of the needy.
We have asked the largest increase in research funds ever sought in one year to intensify attacks on cancer, mental illness, heart disease and other dread diseases.
We demand once again, despite the reluctance of the Democrat 84th Congress, Federal assistance to help build facilities to train more physicians and scientists.
We have encouraged a notable expansion and improvement of voluntary health insurance, and urge that reinsurance and pooling arrangements be authorized to speed this progress.
We have strengthened the Food and Drug Administration, and we have increased the vocational rehabilitation program to enable a larger number of the disabled to return to satisfying activity.
We have supported measures that have made more housing available than ever before in history, reduced urban slums in local-federal partnership, stimulated record home ownership, and authorized additional low-rent public housing.
We initiated the first flood insurance program in history under Government sponsorship in cooperation with private enterprise.
We shall continue to seek extension and perfection of a sound social security system.

2 - excerpts from 1956 Republican Party Platform

Trusts
The Republican party passed the Sherman Antitrust law over Democratic opposition, and enforced it after Democratic dereliction. It has been a wholesome instrument for good in the hands of a wise and fearless administration. But experience has shown that its effectiveness can be strengthened and its real objects better attained by such amendments as will give to the Federal Government greater supervision and control over, and secure greater publicity in, the management of that class of corporations engaged in interstate commerce having power and opportunity to effect monopolies.
Railroad and Government Employees
The enactment in constitutional form at the present session of Congress of the employer's liability law; the passage and enforcement of the safety appliance statutes, as well as the additional protection secured for engineers and firemen; the reduction in the hours of labor of trainmen and railroad telegraphers; the successful exercise of the powers of mediation and arbitration between interstate railroads and their employes, and the law making a beginning in the policy of compensation for injured employes of the Government, are among the most commendable accomplishments of the present administration. But there is further work in this direction yet to be done, and the Republican party pledges its continued devotion to every cause that makes for safety and the betterment of conditions among those whose labor contributes so much to the progress and welfare of the country.
Wage-Earners Generally
The same wise policy which has induced the Republican party to maintain protection to American labor; to establish an eight hour day in the construction of all public works; to increase the list of employes who shall have preferred claims for wages under the bankruptcy laws; to adopt a child labor statute for the District of Columbia; to direct an investigation into the condition of working women and children, and later, of employes of telephone and telegraph companies engaged in interstate business; to appropriate $150,000 at the recent session of Congress in order to secure a thorough inquiry into the causes of catastrophes and loss of life in the mines; and to amend and strengthen the laws prohibiting the importation of contract labor, will be pursued in every legitimate direction within Federal authority to lighten the burdens and increase the opportunity for happiness and advancement of all who toil. The Republican party recognizes the special needs of wage-workers generally, for their well-being means the well-being of all. But more important than all other considerations is that of good citizenship and we especially stand for the needs of every American, whatever his occupation, in his capacity as a self-respecting citizen.

3- excerpts from 1908 Republican Platform

I’m sure it probably reminded you of something different, but I guess we all see what we look for at least to some extent.

As for the 90% rate, I believe Bernie Sanders has said that he could back such a rate, but the only rate I can find him stating was around 50%. I do know that Teddy Roosevelt gave many speeches about the need for a highly progressive income tax and a hardline estate tax to reverse the problems caused by increasing income inequity and the dangers that concentrated wealth played in undermining and corrupting politics and governance. But again we're probably thinking of different things here.

 

[Olowkow]

How do you know Sanders is an atheist? He was born Jewish, and to the best of my knowledge never claimed to be atheist.

It is entirely possible he is an atheist, but keeps it quiet for the very reasons you mentioned.

How do I know Bernie's an atheist? Well I don't in the sense that he told me or that I have solid evidence of his having told anyone. It's his demeanor.

I have some very good friends who are Jewish. I generally like Jews a lot for the pragmatism and stoic existentialism they exhibit. They never give up on life. I don't think any one of them in my acquaintance is a theist in his heart. I am free to joke about religion and Christians in their company. Very liberating.

The culture of the synagogue is mainly for the camaraderie, it seems. My Buddhist wife and I went to a funeral at a synagogue for a good friend's husband a few years ago. *********** mesothelioma. I was frankly tempted to join. The Rabbi never mentioned god, just some really touching and well written philosophy that I can't disagree with. I know a few right wing and middle of the road Christians and a bunch of atheists. I'm pretty good at spotting the god botherers, although I have made a mistake on occasion.

Sanders has no subterfuge going on, no appeal to superstition or supernatural, or to future pipe dreams that just have to happen, no personal fantasies, no hidden sensitivities that I can see. No hot buttons that can cause him to lose his focus because inner doubts or guilt trips have been scratched or exposed, nothing constantly having to be swept under the rug, features all provided compliments of the Christian god. He walks the walk. He's an atheist. I suspect Obama is a marginal believer on the path to atheism, like I was 20 years ago, but Hillary and Bill are believers. I always thought W. Bush was a believer of convenience, a conniving con man. Just opinions that's all.

ETA: Oh yes, I forgot: Bill Maher and Bernie are friends.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Nader is not a nice man on a personal level, what's more. Based on people I know who have had to deal with him.

This has been said about every famous person ever. And it's from a third party, no less.

Bernie is a wonderful guy on the other hand.

We actually have video evidence of Sanders being a jerk.

‘Excuse Me! Shut Up!': Bernie Sanders Defends Israel from Town Hall Hecklers

 

[Trakar]

5 faith facts about Bernie Sanders - http://www.religionnews.com/2015/04/29/5-faith-facts-bernie-sanders-unabashedly-irreligious/

I don't see atheism (or at least anti-religion) in any of his words or actions, but I do see someone who appears to believe that one's personal religious beliefs have no valid role in governing or representing a religiously diverse population.

 

[Trakar]

This has been said about every famous person ever. And it's from a third party, no less.



We actually have video evidence of Sanders being a jerk.

‘Excuse Me! Shut Up!': Bernie Sanders Defends Israel from Town Hall Hecklers

You consider him to be the one being a jerk in this situation?! really?

 

[Childlike Empress]

You consider him to be the one being a jerk in this situation?! really?

Just because that shouting guy was a bigger jerk doesn't mean Bernie did a good job at answering that question, or handling the audience, and his ISIS distraction was really weak. But hey, that's an ultra-hot topic that will totally kick you out of the game if you aren't careful.