Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Grinder]

I need to double check a assumption - are you then saying that Hellmann becomes LESS reliable after the trial, because he's an advocate? That during the trial he was simply an advocate for justice, but then after became slightly less trustworthy?

Well if he just said it was a good decision and explained what he had written in the motivations, then no, he wouldn't be less trustworthy. If he alluded to new evidence that couldn't be verified and he wouldn't provide proof of this new evidence, then, yes I would be skeptical.

I've demonstrated that both Moore and Clemente gave false information in their video interview with that online station. These were just the ones I found in a few minutes after being directed to the interviews.

If you would read the sections of Nina's book about Rudi's "crime wave" you should be able to see that she fudges the truth at best and perhaps makes up details to advance her thesis. The NY Times article gives us her theory and focus. The out of sequence discussion with Nappy has lead to PIP suggesting the CT episode shows the PLE top cops were familiar with Rudi's MO. I think the "crime wave" is built on a foundation of cards.

Tesla's recent mention of Diaz being alive and well in Perugia twittering away has made me more skeptical.

As I've pointed out, if these same type of writing techniques were used against the kids all the PIP would be outraged. If CT were evidence of Raf doing something bad, none would believe him. At least Curatolo said in was sure it was the kids, CT only said he believed it was Rudi. Why wasn't Pisco interviewed by Nina or was he? Did he back up CT?

The facts undermine Rudi being banned from Domus and/or Merlin as he was at those clubs just before the murder.

The kids have been found innocent by the courts. I don't believe a true picture has come out yet. I'm still interested in the mystery.

 

[christianahannah]

Yes it was definitely December 18 although as far as I can tell the Kastle–Meyer test in the bathroom had already been done on some other day before they arrived. DanO might know more about that.

Everything about the Dec 18 inspection is strange. If you watch the 2 videos we have, they don't even go into Amanda's room. She's suppose to be their prime suspect so why weren't they going over her room with a fine-toothed comb? Looking under the bed, pulling everything apart etc....maybe there was some victims blood somewhere they missed.

Part 1 of that inspection is on youtube and it's 54mins. All they seem to be doing is bumbling around in Meredith's room looking at the floor and trying to find Guede's footprints they erased. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0OznU6lvwU

I don't know what to make of the article from November 11 that I posted. I guess it's just one of those things that make you go hmm. It does say they're heading to the cottage on Tuesday which would be the 13th and the next day the door is photographed wide open.

I think they did go into Amanda's room on the 18th. I think they may have done the cutting of the pillowcase where there was a drop of blood (not 100% sure it was the 18th). I believe there was a list of things taken that day but don't recall at them moment where it is. Also, luminol was applied on her floor that day. I don't know how long the scientific police, defense teams, and all were there that day. I thought it was rather long so maybe we don't have all the video.

As for the article I think that may be an error concerning Raffaele's flat since they did search it on November 13 and applied luminol. It wouldn't be the first nor last time facts have been mixed up concerning the case, though I do consider Fiorenza Sarzanini quite good at reporting the news on this case.

 

[Dan O.]

Yes it was definitely December 18 although as far as I can tell the Kastle–Meyer test in the bathroom had already been done on some other day before they arrived. DanO might know more about that.

The December 18 Luminol testing doesn't preclude that testing took place on November 13. Why would they wait so long? The photos show that the Luminol was over applied. Perhaps this is the result of having already been applied the preeceeding month. We are deep into conspiracy territory here with several participants that would know about the November 13 visit remaining silent. But then, we already have proof that there is some coverup in the testimony that the cottage was sealed on the 7th and that the seals were intact when they entered on December 18.

There is testimony that the bathroom was already pinkified by November 6.

Part 1 of that inspection is on youtube and it's 54mins. All they seem to be doing is bumbling around in Meredith's room looking at the floor and trying to find Guede's footprints they erased. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0OznU6lvwU

Part 2 is also available on http://AmandaKnoxCase.com/ .

 

[Dan O.]

...

The facts undermine Rudi being banned from Domus and/or Merlin as he was at those clubs just before the murder.

Who said Rudy was banned? He was thrown out. A 1 day suspension. The personal prerogative of the moderators bouncing customers at the door. A banning would require management action and quite likely The management would require a police report of which there was none.

 

[Grinder]

Does anyone know how long bleach would cause luminol to glow? Blood is very hard to remove and doesn't just go away. Does bleach evaporate (most likely wrong word) and eventually not react with luminol? Would a footprint left in a luminol reactive material become more clear after time?

 

[Grinder]

Who said Rudy was banned? He was thrown out. A 1 day suspension. The personal prerogative of the moderators bouncing customers at the door. A banning would require management action and quite likely The management would require a police report of which there was none.

Pisco was the owner. I'll check for more info

Tramontano had made a special point of banning Rudy from the club because of the altercation in his house. Rudy Guede didn’t make a date with Meredith Kercher at Merlin’s because Christian Tramontano had identified him as the burglar in his house and would not have permitted him to enter the nightclub that night.

This is from a non credible source. I'll keep looking.

http://groundreport.com/the-amanda-...-surrounding-the-role-of-the-milanese-police/

ETA - Nina has him kicked out. I see no mention of Rudi or Rudy in Pisco witness statement but it's in Italian and in photo PMF form so no quick way to translate.

I find it difficult to believe that CT would have Pisco throw him out for invading his home and not banning him. I also find it hard to believe his whole story in that after IDing Rudi in the club he still didn't report to the police. He never was sure it was Rudi but regardless how could be threatened in your home and then spot the perp and only have him kicked out for the evening. What did tell Rudi about why he was being kicked out. "Hey you invaded my friends house and threatened him with a knife so we're kicking you out, but come back next week and everything will be cool bro" I just don't see a guilty Rudi going back withing a few weeks.

 

[Dougm]

New translation: Amy Frost witness statement November 2, 2007: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Amy-Frost-Statement-2-Nov-2007.pdf

Frost says twice in her statement that Amanda was Meredith's friend.

Interesting that Amanda is singled out for mention, both at the beginning and the end of the statement. That indicates to me that she was asked about Amanda specifically. There is nothing negative about Amanda, but the references to her are separate, and the other girls are discussed as a group.

 

[christianahannah]

Does anyone know how long bleach would cause luminol to glow? Blood is very hard to remove and doesn't just go away. Does bleach evaporate (most likely wrong word) and eventually not react with luminol? Would a footprint left in a luminol reactive material become more clear after time?

A publication from 2005. You could probably check more recent publications on same site.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bio.865/abstract

The last sentence of the abstract has this:

Examination of bleach drying time suggested that any interfering effect becomes negligible after 8 h.

 

[Grinder]

Interesting that Amanda is singled out for mention, both at the beginning and the end of the statement. That indicates to me that she was asked about Amanda specifically. There is nothing negative about Amanda, but the references to her are separate, and the other girls are discussed as a group.

Also I noted that the interviewers were lesser known cops. Not sure who did AK and RS but I thought Mignini, Nappy and some of her boys.

Since they were onto the staged break in and Amanda did "find" the crime I can see them concentrating on her.

It is remarkable how short these write ups are. She also wrote that it was a spontaneous statement so clearly part of the form for the ILE.

 

[Grinder]

A publication from 2005. You could probably check more recent publications on same site.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bio.865/abstract

The last sentence of the abstract has this:

Thanks so much. So there would be little reason to wait over 24 hours.

 

[Planigale]

The only list of crime-scene hairs I know of is found on a 'Guilter' website –– see below, and since I can’t post URLs yet, add the “http” part of the URL yourself.

As with DNA, hair can be inadvertently transferred from one place to another.

That said, 5 African hairs consistent with Guede were found in Meredith's bedroom (too many to be inadvertently transferred there), which explains why the police had focused in on an African suspect early on in this case, and since Lumumba was the only African man the police knew Amanda had a relationship with, that explains how Lumumba's name came up in the wee hours of November 6th, 2007:

Quote:
Hairs

(Dr. Stefanoni Genetic Test, SAL report, Dr. Stefanoni slide presentation):

1. Of the over 480 tests prepared on samples, 93 of these constituted hairs or fibers. 86 were human hairs of varying length, in varying colors. The most significant colors noted were black, blonde, chestnut, light chestnut and red chestnut.
[ ]
4. 7 hairs were black in color. 6 of these were 4 cm long or less, and so likely Guede’s hair. 4 of these were on the duvet and 1 was on the mattress cover, both in Ms. Kercher’s room. 1 was also on a sponge at Sollecito’s apartment.

themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Evidence_List#Hairs

I previously posted on the correct forensic examination of hairs. It is wrong to attribute ethnicity based on colour; this would appear to be especially true in Italy where black hair is common even in the 'white' population. African ethnicity is based on cross sectional examination (e.g. viz Am Acad Dermatol 2003;48:S115-9). There is no evidence that such examination was carried out therefore such attribution is little short of fantasy.

 

[Kauffer]

I previously posted on the correct forensic examination of hairs. It is wrong to attribute ethnicity based on colour; this would appear to be especially true in Italy where black hair is common even in the 'white' population. African ethnicity is based on cross sectional examination (e.g. viz Am Acad Dermatol 2003;48:S115-9). There is no evidence that such examination was carried out therefore such attribution is little short of fantasy.

But could it be that they did actually interpret hair at the crime scene as coming from someone of African heritage and despite the non scientific nature of the assessment, turned out to be right? It would lend credibility to the theory that Lumumba himself was an undeclared suspect prior to the 5th.

 

[Grinder]

Pisco was interviewed twice on the second. I don't see any other interviews with him. It would seem at that time they were considering everything including the idea a cook might have done it because of the way she was cut.

 

[Bill Williams]

Well if he just said it was a good decision and explained what he had written in the motivations, then no, he wouldn't be less trustworthy. If he alluded to new evidence that couldn't be verified and he wouldn't provide proof of this new evidence, then, yes I would be skeptical.

I've demonstrated that both Moore and Clemente gave false information in their video interview with that online station. These were just the ones I found in a few minutes after being directed to the interviews.

If you would read the sections of Nina's book about Rudi's "crime wave" you should be able to see that she fudges the truth at best and perhaps makes up details to advance her thesis. The NY Times article gives us her theory and focus. The out of sequence discussion with Nappy has lead to PIP suggesting the CT episode shows the PLE top cops were familiar with Rudi's MO. I think the "crime wave" is built on a foundation of cards.

Tesla's recent mention of Diaz being alive and well in Perugia twittering away has made me more skeptical.

As I've pointed out, if these same type of writing techniques were used against the kids all the PIP would be outraged. If CT were evidence of Raf doing something bad, none would believe him. At least Curatolo said in was sure it was the kids, CT only said he believed it was Rudi. Why wasn't Pisco interviewed by Nina or was he? Did he back up CT?

The facts undermine Rudi being banned from Domus and/or Merlin as he was at those clubs just before the murder.

The kids have been found innocent by the courts. I don't believe a true picture has come out yet. I'm still interested in the mystery.

You've met words with words. Good stuff.

The kids have been found innocent by the courts mainly because that's what they are.

There are then two issues. The first one is no mystery, save for lingering questions about the nature of the wrongful prosecutions.

As for the crime itself, that is a seperate "mystery", Rudy and how many or if any confederates or was his action part of a crime spree..... I've been worn out by the first mystery....

Why two innocents and a grieving family were put through this for almost a decade.

 

[Kauffer]

Interesting that Amanda is singled out for mention, both at the beginning and the end of the statement. That indicates to me that she was asked about Amanda specifically. There is nothing negative about Amanda, but the references to her are separate, and the other girls are discussed as a group.

Yes, but Frost got intensely negative about Amanda in testimony.

 

[Grinder]

Yes, but Frost got intensely negative about Amanda in testimony.

I wonder how much research has gone into this kind of testimony after charges are filed. It seems everyone after the charges were filed became much more negative about whomever they were describing.

One guy made the remarks about Rudi's drug use, hitting on women, etc. Perhaps I've missed other but this guy that played ball in 2005-6 was the only one.

The british girls all turned.

The "witnesses" knew nothing the week of the murder but then remembered.

Diaz didn't go to the police immediately and say she suspected Rudi.

CT didn't go to the police with his similar story nor did the lawyers. CT waited until 2008. Why didn't he go the day after the pictures showed up or at least within a week?

I have thought that the british birds were covering for Meredith in the sense of making it clear she was a good girl. We don't why it was mentioned that they drank only water?.

Together with the three friends we talked about various things and at around 18 we all started to eat a pizza we had prepared ourselves, afterwards we ate coffee and mascapone ice-cream and drank only water. Afterwards we watched a DVD until around 21, then Sophie and Meredith went out to go home on foot

 

[Samson]

I wonder how much research has gone into this kind of testimony after charges are filed. It seems everyone after the charges were filed became much more negative about whomever they were describing.

One guy made the remarks about Rudi's drug use, hitting on women, etc. Perhaps I've missed other but this guy that played ball in 2005-6 was the only one.

The british girls all turned.

The "witnesses" knew nothing the week of the murder but then remembered.

Diaz didn't go to the police immediately and say she suspected Rudi.

CT didn't go to the police with his similar story nor did the lawyers. CT waited until 2008. Why didn't he go the day after the pictures showed up or at least within a week?

I have thought that the british birds were covering for Meredith in the sense of making it clear she was a good girl. We don't why it was mentioned that they drank only water?.

Together with the three friends we talked about various things and at around 18 we all started to eat a pizza we had prepared ourselves, afterwards we ate coffee and mascapone ice-cream and drank only water. Afterwards we watched a DVD until around 21, then Sophie and Meredith went out to go home on foot

Nice catch.

 

[kwill]

What happened to the apple crumble?

 

[Grinder]

What happened to the apple crumble?

Nice catch as well, maybe it wasn't baked yet. Interesting that later there was that piece of food that needed explaining. The girls didn't remember exact dining time and now it would appear the exact food either.

 

[acbytesla]

It's quite interesting to read these statements by the British girls. It's very clear that they really didn't know Amanda very well and what ever opinion ion they had of her actually was the result of them being convinced by the authorities that the American was their friend's killer.

This really was more like a virus.