Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

[Belz...]

Of course it's DOA. Republicans have no interest in anything that doesn't directly provide more wealth to the 1%. Republicans are so ignorant and consumed with kissing the ass of the rich they fail to realize that providing people jobs will also create wealth.

No they don't. They just think that creating jobs means providing more wealth to the 1%.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

I am sincerely afraid if we don't have a political revolution within the next 5 years (give or take) we will have a literal revolution. People left with nothing have nothing left to lose. The French Aristocracy found that out the hard way. I'd rather not have that happen here.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Depending on the Republican nominee Clinton may well need a strong turnout from Bernie's ground support. We shall see if she inspires them, I tend to think not.

I don't think that they'll try to inspire their party. I think that they'll try to scare them to vote so that the Republican doesn't win. Going negative like that seems dicey, but I can't imagine Clinton being inspirational.

 

[Beerina]

And this revolution involves? The political reforms are?

More control for politicians so they can get paid to get back out of the way.

In the US, corruption must adopt a memetic cloak to bring in true believers that, in most other countries, is left to the open palm behind the back.

In both types of countries, the more corruption, the more the economy is slowed. Business doesn't care if regulation or kickback threat is what slows it.

 

[luchog]

I don't think that they'll try to inspire their party. I think that they'll try to scare them to vote so that the Republican doesn't win. Going negative like that seems dicey, but I can't imagine Clinton being inspirational.

And that's the only thing that will really kill Bernie's chances at president. Not the Republicans, they're a *********** clown car of stupid right now. It will be Clinton supporters spewing "split the vote" FUD to sabotage him.

 

[grunion]

Do you mean the legal corruption in the form of SuperPACs and campaign financing? That can be legislated away were there the will to do it. Unfortunately those powers are quite entrenched at the moment.

Or the not-so-secret illegal corruption, prevalent on the local and state level? Not so far off the "open palm behind the back" that you say only exists in other countries.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

And that's the only thing that will really kill Bernie's chances at president. Not the Republicans, they're a *********** clown car of stupid right now. It will be Clinton supporters spewing "split the vote" FUD to sabotage him.

At a Stein rally I went to, a woman there said that she was a two-time organizer for the Kucinich presidential campaigns. She said that most of the Democratic Party higher-ups actually agreed with Kucinich, but they still wouldn't support him because they didn't consider him "electable". I know it's hearsay from an anonymous source, but I've gotten so cynical about the Dems that I find it very plausible.

 

[Random]

And that's the only thing that will really kill Bernie's chances at president. Not the Republicans, they're a *********** clown car of stupid right now. It will be Clinton supporters spewing "split the vote" FUD to sabotage him.

Especially considering how stupid the "split the vote" argument is. Do you know anyone whose presidential preference order would go:

1- Hillary Clinton
2- Republican Candidate (pick any of them, it really doesn't matter)
3- Bernie Sanders

The people who would vote for Hillary in the primaries would vote for Bernie in the general if he won the nomination. The people who would vote for Bernie in the primaries would vote for Hillary in the general if she won the nomination.

 

[Trakar]

Especially considering how stupid the "split the vote" argument is. Do you know anyone whose presidential preference order would go:

1- Hillary Clinton
2- Republican Candidate (pick any of them, it really doesn't matter)
3- Bernie Sanders

The people who would vote for Hillary in the primaries would vote for Bernie in the general if he won the nomination. The people who would vote for Bernie in the primaries would vote for Hillary in the general if she won the nomination.

Actually, no. I would vote for Bernie in the primaries but if he loses, I likely won't vote for Hillary in the general election, I'll probably vote for an independent candidate if Sanders does not win the Democratic primary.

 

[grunion]

Actually, no. I would vote for Bernie in the primaries but if he loses, I likely won't vote for Hillary in the general election, I'll probably vote for an independent candidate if Sanders does not win the Democratic primary.

I suppose it would matter exactly how evil the Republican candidate is, but living in a bright blue state as I do, I would have a very difficult time filling in a ballot for Hillary. If Bernie doesn't win I will find an Independent to vote for.

 

[Suddenly]

Especially considering how stupid the "split the vote" argument is. Do you know anyone whose presidential preference order would go:

1- Hillary Clinton
2- Republican Candidate (pick any of them, it really doesn't matter)
3- Bernie Sanders

Lots of people. Mostly those slightly right of center that will hold their nose and vote for a moderate over a mildly wacky right wing ninny, but who will not vote, or go ahead and choose the GOP over someone as socialist as Sanders.

It does matter who the GOP candidate is as if it is Bush there is a "brand name v. someone I've barely heard of before" dynamic playing as well. Not to mention the gender identity people who would vote for a woman but not a man. Maybe this all adds up to maybe 1-2%, maybe Sanders brings in enough of those who wouldn't vote for someone as "establishment" as Clinton to make up for it.

I suspect polling would show that Clinton would do better than Sanders against a hypothetical GOP opponent, but we are six months away from being able to take polls seriously...

 

[grunion]

I read that Diane Rehm (whom I generally hold in admiration) in an interview yesterday repeated the anti-Semitic canard that Sanders holds dual citizenship with Israel. He denied it flatly, and she has since apologized, but undoubtedly this will give it legs and will be hurled at him throughout the campaign.

 

[luchog]

The people who would vote for Hillary in the primaries would vote for Bernie in the general if he won the nomination. The people who would vote for Bernie in the primaries would vote for Hillary in the general if she won the nomination.

And this is the thing. A lot of people will vote for Sanders who wouldn't vote for Clinton; and nearly everyone who would vote for Clinton will vote for Sanders. I know I'm one of the former, as are many people of my acquaintance.

Actually, no. I would vote for Bernie in the primaries but if he loses, I likely won't vote for Hillary in the general election, I'll probably vote for an independent candidate if Sanders does not win the Democratic primary.

I suppose it would matter exactly how evil the Republican candidate is, but living in a bright blue state as I do, I would have a very difficult time filling in a ballot for Hillary. If Bernie doesn't win I will find an Independent to vote for.

I would certainly vote for Sanders if he runs as an Independent. I can't see myself voting for anyone else. Certainly not a big-money Dem like Clinton.

Lots of people. Mostly those slightly right of center that will hold their nose and vote for a moderate over a mildly wacky right wing ninny, but who will not vote, or go ahead and choose the GOP over someone as socialist as Sanders.

If there are such people, I think they're an insignificant percentage. I strongly doubt anyone who would vote for Clinton is going to vote for the vast majority of the current crop of Republican nutcases.

It does matter who the GOP candidate is as if it is Bush there is a "brand name v. someone I've barely heard of before" dynamic playing as well.

A highly tainted brand name at this point. Given Jeb's actions and words of late, I don't think he's going to pull much more than the religious far-right and corporate shills; and there seems to be a significant backlash against Yet Another Bush, even within the party. Cruz is about the only one on the GOP ticket I can see with the credibility to pull off a win.

Not to mention the gender identity people who would vote for a woman but not a man. Maybe this all adds up to maybe 1-2%, maybe Sanders brings in enough of those who wouldn't vote for someone as "establishment" as Clinton to make up for it.

Hardly definitive, I know, but all the noise I'm hearing from the GLBT front, and the various left-leaning non-voters, is highly supportive of Bernie, and ambivalent towards, or outright dismissive of, Hillary. The image Clinton has is of someone in bed with the Corporations, and therefore not a real choice. While there is a small percentage who will vote for her just to elect a female president, and a somewhat larger percentage who will vote for her just to vote against a Republican; but for the most part, they simply won't bothering voting for anyone but Sanders. He has managed to mobilize a lot of apathetic voters and rally them behind him. Again, not exactly a scientific poll, just the way I'm seeing the winds blow right now.

 

[luchog]

I read that Diane Rehm (whom I generally hold in admiration) in an interview yesterday repeated the anti-Semitic canard that Sanders holds dual citizenship with Israel. He denied it flatly, and she has since apologized, but undoubtedly this will give it legs and will be hurled at him throughout the campaign.

Possibly, but the similarly nutcase birther crowd did little to damage Obama's chances; so I don't see this as a particularly significant problem. There was a lot of talk about how "unelectable" Obama through much of the run-up; which was effectively negated by a slick and effective PR machine. Sanders already has a strong grassroots support that Obama lacked.

 

[BenBurch]

Possibly, but the similarly nutcase birther crowd did little to damage Obama's chances; so I don't see this as a particularly significant problem. There was a lot of talk about how "unelectable" Obama through much of the run-up; which was effectively negated by a slick and effective PR machine. Sanders already has a strong grassroots support that Obama lacked.

Those of us who have friends who have worked with him need no convincing.

My friend Thom Hartmann has nothing but glowing praise for the man.

 

[Trakar]

Bernie Sanders on Family Values

Bernie Sanders on Family Values
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-wants-to-take-back-family-values-121276760221.html

“I will be talking about family values, but not the family values that my Republican colleagues talk about, which for them means that a woman cannot have the right to control her own body or that gay people should not have the right to get married or that women should not have access to contraception. That is what their concept of family values are about. That’s not my concept,” Sanders said at the breakfast, sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor Breakfast in downtown D.C.
“My concept about family values is about is that the United States should not be the only major country on earth that does not guarantee paid family and medical leave when a woman has a baby. So that right now we’re seeing a situation where a woman is having a baby and a week later is forced to go back to work because she doesn’t have the income to stay at home and bond with her child,” Sanders said.
He then outlined three family-oriented policies that would be at the center of his “Family Values Plan”: making sure that all American have 12 weeks of paid maternity leave, paid sick leave and 10 days a year of paid vacation time.
As he explained his agenda, based loosely on programs that already exist in European countries, Sanders’ voice took on the impassioned populist tone that has helped him draw bigger than expected crowds — “I have been surprised by the size,” Sanders admitted Thursday — in Iowa and New Hampshire.
“It is beyond comprehension that again the United States of America, our great nation, is the only nation on earth that does not guarantee sick leave. Sick leave!” Sanders exclaimed.
“Today, in McDonalds and Burger Kings all over this country, there are people who are sick, who are handling are food, who should be at home. There are mothers who are sending their kids to school because they don’t have paid sick leave to take care of their kids. That is a family value,” Sanders continued. “That when a husband comes down with cancer, that a wife has a right to spend some time with him at home. That is a family value.”

“Family values” is not a term owned by either party. At least Sanders is actually speaking about values that most families in amerce share, whereas most conservatives’ idea of “family values” they advocate for seem to revolve around some restriction on family activities that they want the government to outlaw or restrict

 

[Spindrift]

How about this for a historic election?

Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz.

Instead of the country voting to lean left or lean right, this would be a vote to swerve left or swerve right.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Is Bernie Sanders available as a cuddly plush toy? He's increasingly adorable for the things he says!

 

[The Big Dog]

Bernie sure seems active!

Maybe you can start adding new updates to your Bullish on Bernie thread?

 

[Trakar]

How about this for a historic election?

Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz.

Instead of the country voting to lean left or lean right, this would be a vote to swerve left or swerve right.

This presumes that the country has been staying on a neutral course for the last few election cycles, whereas to my eyes, Cruz and his ilk, pulled the nation hard to the right (from an already rightward path), nearly a decade ago. Even a hard left would only get us back to neutral after another decade or so.