Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Vixen said:
Conscious that my education is of a higher standard than yours, I have helpfully reproduced below the advice on BBC's webpage, "Learning English":



When people's names end in 's', you can either add ' or 's (Charles' or Charles's) and choose pronunciation accordingly, either /iz/ or /isiz/. You might sometimes need to choose the latter to make the meaning clear.
For example, if you speak the sentence:
'My house is older than Mrs Evans''
with just /iz/ at the end, you may be saying that your house is older than Mrs Evans herself, or that your house is older than Mrs Evans' house! But if you say:
'My house is older than Mrs Evans's''
with /isiz/ at the end, it is clear that you are talking about houses in both cases!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv20.shtml

Clear now?
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Not to you, that's for sure. LJ is right:

Rule: To show singular possession of a name ending in ch or z, add ‘s on the end of the name.

Examples:
Harry Birch’s house
Mrs. Sanchez’s children

http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/apostrophes-with-names-ending-in-s-ch-or-z/

But you shouldn't use "Mez" on here. Use "Meredith" instead, or the other options LJ gave you.
 
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acbytesla said:
I admit to using it sometimes mostly because I'm lazy. I'll say Raff instead of Raffaele as well. But I know that neither is proper.
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I do to and I always think of this guy
latest
 
Vixen said:
Conscious that my education is of a higher standard than yours, I have helpfully reproduced below the advice on BBC's webpage, "Learning English":



When people's names end in 's', you can either add ' or 's (Charles' or Charles's) and choose pronunciation accordingly, either /iz/ or /isiz/. You might sometimes need to choose the latter to make the meaning clear.
For example, if you speak the sentence:
'My house is older than Mrs Evans''
with just /iz/ at the end, you may be saying that your house is older than Mrs Evans herself, or that your house is older than Mrs Evans' house! But if you say:
'My house is older than Mrs Evans's''
with /isiz/ at the end, it is clear that you are talking about houses in both cases!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv20.shtml

Clear now?
Click to expand...

Kauffer said:
Not to you, that's for sure. LJ is right:

Rule: To show singular possession of a name ending in ch or z, add ‘s on the end of the name.

Examples:
Harry Birch’s house
Mrs. Sanchez’s children

http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/apostrophes-with-names-ending-in-s-ch-or-z/

But you shouldn't use "Mez" on here. Use "Meredith" instead, or the other options LJ gave you.
Click to expand...

I really hesitate to make another post on this, I think I probably shouldn't have posted a response to LJ in the first place but out of fairness to Vixen I feel a need to point out that in an internet search I found several sites arguing that either was acceptable. I also found another site that claimed only Mez's was acceptable. It is possible that the grammatical rules on this are a little looser in the US than in the UK.

I prefer the construction Chaz's hat over Chaz' hat and I think Chaz's hat would be the most common construction but there is enough counter evidence that I don't think it is fair to draw a conclusion that Vixen's construction is not grammatically correct as is implied in the source he/she linked to.

Sources that argue either is correct:
BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv20.shtml

Merriam Webster
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/the-possessive-of-proper-nouns-like-perez-with-or-without-an-s

Capital Community College Foundation
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm

grammarly answers
http://www.grammarly.com/answers/questions/6144-what-is-the-possessive-of-a-word-ending-in-z/

Sources that argue always add -s
grammarbook.com
Chicago manual of style 2010
OED

This is far from an exhaustive list, anybody that cares more about this feel free to improve on the list or argue that the controlling reference is the OED or anything else. Personally I think the controlling reference is what davefoc thinks and he thinks you should always add apostrophe s.
 
No Italian tour for Honor Bound yet...

Bill Williams said:
So much for Mignini's defamation lawsuit against Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumbel.

Raffaele is now doing a book tour...... IN ITALY!!!

http://www.tusciaweb.eu/2015/05/raffaele-sollecito-viterbo/
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Bill W,

Here is a translation per google below of the article you cite. I think you mistook this for a book tour by Raf, whereas I think ChristianaHaha has it right, that Raf is participating in a presentation promoting another book.

Here's the Quote -

"Chronicle - Kercher Murder - On June 5, the presentation of a book on justice
Raffaele Sollecito in Viterbo

inShare

*

Raffaele Sollecito
Viterbo - Raffaele Sollecito in Viterbo.

The boy got the headlines for being charged along with Amanda Knox in the murder of student Meredith Kercher, then both acquitted definitively last March, it will be in town at the presentation of the book "Fear Desnuda".

At the center of the debate, the issue of justice.

Sollecito will in Viterbo June 5 to 18, visiting the library Etruria together with the authors of the book.
To arrange an appointment, the Movement for the neo-Renaissance justice.

Get to Viterbo after other events around Italy, including Rome, Caserta and Crotone."
 
davefoc said:
<snip>This is far from an exhaustive list, anybody that cares more about this feel free to improve on the list or argue that the controlling reference is the OED or anything else. Personally I think the controlling reference is what davefoc thinks and he thinks you should always add apostrophe s.
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I completely agree. "The Joneses car" still gets me, right here. What is everyone in that car jonesing for, I wonder.

Vixen said:
Conscious that my education is of a higher standard than yours, I have helpfully reproduced below the advice on BBC's webpage, "Learning English":<snip>
Click to expand...

This gives me a chuckle because it reminds me of the time a couple of decades ago when a proofreader job I had applied for was down to two candidates. The personnel director told me, "You're both qualified, but she went to Smith." I burst out laughing and said, "Well, I certainly hope she knew how to spell before she went to Smith!"
 
Conspiracies by the Police and Prosecution are sometimes real...at least in the US (Orange County, California).

Sheriff's officers and the prosecutors of the District Attorney misrepresented or suppressed information about a computer database of jailhouse snitches maintained by the Sheriff. The snitches allegedly acted to elicit confessions or other statements contrary to defendant's Miranda rights, a violation of Constitutional protections. In some cases the snitches allegedly fabricated confessions of the defendants, allegedly with the knowledge of the police and prosecutor. (If true, this would constitute misconduct - in this situation possibly "framing".)

See: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._goethals_takes_district_attorney.single.html
 
Numbers said:
Conspiracies by the Police and Prosecution are sometimes real...at least in the US (Orange County, California).

Sheriff's officers and the prosecutors of the District Attorney misrepresented or suppressed information about a computer database of jailhouse snitches maintained by the Sheriff. The snitches allegedly acted to elicit confessions or other statements contrary to defendant's Miranda rights, a violation of Constitutional protections. In some cases the snitches allegedly fabricated confessions of the defendants, allegedly with the knowledge of the police and prosecutor. (If true, this would constitute misconduct - in this situation possibly "framing".)

See: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._goethals_takes_district_attorney.single.html
Click to expand...

Yes, at least in some cases when they knew the person was innocent. Truly pigs.
 
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davefoc said:
I really hesitate to make another post on this, I think I probably shouldn't have posted a response to LJ in the first place but out of fairness to Vixen I feel a need to point out that in an internet search I found several sites arguing that either was acceptable. I also found another site that claimed only Mez's was acceptable. It is possible that the grammatical rules on this are a little looser in the US than in the UK.

I prefer the construction Chaz's hat over Chaz' hat and I think Chaz's hat would be the most common construction but there is enough counter evidence that I don't think it is fair to draw a conclusion that Vixen's construction is not grammatically correct as is implied in the source he/she linked to.

Sources that argue either is correct:
BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv20.shtml

Merriam Webster
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/the-possessive-of-proper-nouns-like-perez-with-or-without-an-s

Capital Community College Foundation
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm

grammarly answers
http://www.grammarly.com/answers/questions/6144-what-is-the-possessive-of-a-word-ending-in-z/

Sources that argue always add -s
grammarbook.com
Chicago manual of style 2010
OED

This is far from an exhaustive list, anybody that cares more about this feel free to improve on the list or argue that the controlling reference is the OED or anything else. Personally I think the controlling reference is what davefoc thinks and he thinks you should always add apostrophe s.
Click to expand...
I think it is relevant to well mannered discussion to have consistency. It always riled me that the late Harryrag/Machine always called Meredith by her first name, and Amanda by her surname.
I also agree, Chaz' hat is tough to deconstruct immediately into its intended meaning, especially if only spoken.
 
Kauffer said:
Not to you, that's for sure. LJ is right:

Rule: To show singular possession of a name ending in ch or z, add ‘s on the end of the name.

Examples:
Harry Birch’s house
Mrs. Sanchez’s children

http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/apostrophes-with-names-ending-in-s-ch-or-z/

But you shouldn't use "Mez" on here. Use "Meredith" instead, or the other options LJ gave you.
Click to expand...

Riight. Somebody's blog. American rules do differ slightly from Brits'. You won't put prepositions at the end of a sentence, we think nothing of it.

Re Mez, only copying you guys.
 
Desert Fox said:
Most of the big names in the innocent projects are lawyers. Often they work pro-bono.
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I think the real issue is that a legal degree is completely irrelevant to the thinking skills best used to deconstruct the evidence. Indeed it is possible that the qualification occludes the process. However people with strong legal qualifications are completely indespensable to the process, necessary but not sufficient.
 
AnimalFriendly said:
<SNIP>
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Edited by jsfisher: 
Moderated content removed.


That's very interesting, AnimalFriendly. Did you know that Nick Van Der Leek plagiarized much of Karen Parker Pruett's writing on the case for the first edition of his book? Amazon took all of his publications off their site until the conflict was resolved.
 
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Mary_H said:
That's very interesting, AnimalFriendly. Did you know that Nick Van Der Leek plagiarized much of Karen Parker Pruett's writing on the case for the first edition of his book? Amazon took all of his publications off their site until the conflict was resolved.
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Is there another edition comming out? I'd be interested to see if they plagiarized material from this site. But then that would mean they would finally have some of their facts right for a change.
 
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