Continuation Part 16: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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Remember he purchased the goods in Milan, therefore it was a legitimate trade. Small town boy in the big smoke. He will believe it a legitimate purchase and be proud of securing a great deal and claiming ownership.

Rudi was very familiar with Milan as he had lived there and had a relative there as well. Why do you keep saying he purchased the goods there? As I just wrote no one believes that. Of course that was a convenient story when caught with the stuff in the nursery. He sure wasn't going to say he was fronted the stuff in Perugia and was in Milan to sell it.

I doubt he had prepared at all for that question from Mignini as he much bigger things to worry about.

Do you honestly think if asked about the lawyers' office burglary he would have admitted doing it?
 
How do you know he hasn't? The Kerchers haven't said anything much at all in the last couple of years. Certainly nothing concrete.
Certainly in mid 2013 when Amanda said she was innocent and asked to meet him he gracelessly riposted in the media, "I have heard all this rubbish before." By any measure he is a poorly functioning human being.
 
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I can forgive the Kerchers their emotionalism, the early imprinting of the prosecution case, their anger, their despair and agree that it could reasonably have been expected to sustain them for quite some time. But for how long should we expect them not to have engaged their brains? Seven and a half years?

Kercher senior was hardly unaware of the phenomenon of miscarriages of justice. A world famous one occurred right on his doorstep in Surrey - the Guildford four wrongly convicted with shoddy forensic evidence of an IRA bombing in a case with similarities to Amanda Knox's.

When the data dump occurred late in the Massei trial, should he have been concerned to hear that the bloody footprints were not actually blood and that this evidence had been withheld from the court? Should he have asked how it was possible for Amanda to stab his daughter to death without leaving a speck of evidence? At a certain point somewhere between November 6th 2007 and March 27th 2015, with the "heartbreaking quest for the truth" about his daughter's murder prominent in his mind, he should have been expected to have asked some better questions. Did he never search the internet for clues? Stray onto the IIP site or the PI wiki? Did he never read Moore, Hendry, Halkides? Did none of his friends privately and quietly express some doubt? Did he ever ask his family liaison, Nick Scola, a senior Metropolitan police detective with impeccable credentials what he thought about the case?

As Amanda herself said, there were "speckles" of blood, which in her earlier accounts was a "blob" (?). So, becoming ever smaller and smaller.

The reasoning, if we can call it that, "Small evidence not same as big evidence, right?"
 
I honestly think a prosecutor has better things to do with his or her time than try to frame innocent people.

A bad faith prosecution? Abuse of power? Lack of discovery? Withheld evidence? These things are common. Frame ups are not.
 
Certainly in mid 2013 when Amanda said she was innocent and asked to meet him he gracelessly riposted in the media, "I have heard all this rubbish before." By any measure he is a despicable human being.

Really? John Kercher should meet his dear daughter's alleged murderer?

What an offensive proposition.
 
Bill and others have expressed little interest in continuing to explore what really happened in various aspects. As was discussed at other times some were advocates for the kids innocence and had emotional connection to the kids and I'm guessing the verdict completes the case for them.

I have been convinced since reading the police chief's comments the day after arrest that something was rotten in Perugia. When Patrick was cleared the feeling intensified. The detail of how badly the DNA evidence was handled took some time to become clear.

One of the oddest aspects for me was the defense both legal and PR argued it had to be Rudi as the "lone wolf". Obviously if the kids could be suspects as accomplices and leave no evidence in the murder room then so could someone else. It was noted early on that evidence of unidentified people was found. IIRC both DNA and fingerprints were found.

I have wondered if the semen stain was from an unidentified man which would thrown a wrench in the gears of the prosecution's theory.

Koko was established to be there from phone records IIRC. What was he doing there? Did he know Rudi? Did they work at the same place for a time?

I am not sure I can speak for others, but it has not been an emotional interest for me. Truly, every time I've tried to go down the route of solving the minutiae of the case, it's been like descending into a rabbit hole.

One of the "various aspects of the case" which is worth exploring, obviously, is the events in Rudy's life which ended up in sexual assault and murder at the cottage in Nov 2007. Perhaps Nina Burleigh is a prime source in that, but you, Grinder, have obviously done background stuff to "fact-check" her claims. But suffice it to say that she spent the time writing a book, and you spend the time here on ISF pursuing this and the two of you, apparently, have the horsepower to see it through.

The verdict does not complete the case. As noted by others there is the ECHR which some claim will start the reversal of the calunnia against Knox. There are the satellite cases against Knox, her parents, Raffaele and (heck, even) Frank Sfarzo. Unknown at this time is if folk like Mignini and Stefanoni will feel the sting and peculiarities of Italian law, where three compatibilities against them will equal a judicial fact!

And there is the Marasca report due in a couple of weeks. If people listen to Peter Quennell, the TJMK moderator is now predicting some agency will intervene and overturn the March 2015 annulment of Nencini and exoneration of the kids.

Some of that stuff I can handle. On the other, more arcane stuff it feels a lot like being 75 rows up in the bleachers. Truly, I (for one) do not really know what to make of the days leading up to his barbaric actions, Rudy I mean.

As DougM as said upthread, that's probably a worthy road to go down to figure it all out. But it does not change much of import on the main issues.
 
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As Amanda herself said, there were "speckles" of blood, which in her earlier accounts was a "blob" (?). So, becoming ever smaller and smaller.

The reasoning, if we can call it that, "Small evidence not same as big evidence, right?"

That was in the bathroom. There was nothing in the bedroom- nothing at all. If Amanda's blood in the bathroom was connected to the murder, somebody needed to make an evidence based connection. Nobody ever did.

You can see for yourself the crime scene video of the bathroom.
 
I honestly think a prosecutor has better things to do with his or her time than try to frame innocent people.

They can only frame innocent people by definition. :p

You think? While I doubt the idea he framed them from the beginning or perhaps ever, the case was not handled transparently or fairly.

Certainly in mid 2013 when Amanda said she was innocent and asked to meet him he gracelessly riposted in the media, "I have heard all this rubbish before." By any measure he is a despicable human being.

I see no value in the above remark. It would be very difficult to have a clear mind after the murder. Ever.
 
Really? John Kercher should meet his dear daughter's alleged murderer?

What an offensive proposition.

You may have missed it - Arline Kercher has also said that at an appropriate time, she'd like to meet with Rudy Guede. AFAIK, this kind of thing is not unknown for victims of crime to want to face the perpetrator.

Also, AK and RS are not alleged murderers. They have been exonerated.
 
Really? John Kercher should meet his dear daughter's alleged murderer?

What an offensive proposition.

Really? If I had a dead daughter, I'd want to sit opposite her alleged killer - who maintains her innocence - look her in the eyes - hear her story.
 
A bad faith prosecution? Abuse of power? Lack of discovery? Withheld evidence? These things are common. Frame ups are not.

What "bad faith"? In the case of the Guildford Four, there was the element of IRA terrorists planting a bomb designed to kill and maim UK servicemen. That was a case of political pressure to prosecute any old Sein Fein activist.

What "bad faith" did Mignini have towards Amanda, someone who voluntarily revealed to police at a very early stage, she was at the murder scene.

Were the cops supposed to ignore it?
 
Samson said:
Certainly in mid 2013 when Amanda said she was innocent and asked to meet him he gracelessly riposted in the media, "I have heard all this rubbish before." By any measure he is a despicable human being.

I see no value in the above remark. It would be very difficult to have a clear mind after the murder. Ever.

Agreed. For me, the one person in all this I (assume I) understand is John Kercher.
 
Really? If I had a dead daughter, I'd want to sit opposite her alleged killer - who maintains her innocence - look her in the eyes - hear her story.

And if you rather preferred not to, that would make you a "vile, despicable person"? Really?


Please explain why.
 
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What "bad faith"? In the case of the Guildford Four, there was the element of IRA terrorists planting a bomb designed to kill and maim UK servicemen. That was a case of political pressure to prosecute any old Sein Fein activist.

What "bad faith" did Mignini have towards Amanda, someone who voluntarily revealed to police at a very early stage, she was at the murder scene.

Were the cops supposed to ignore it?

Many police forces are now trained to understand how they, themselves, taint witnesses. It is not unknown, it is very common, to find miscarriages of justice which originate from police interrogators inserting their own beliefs into a witness, which a witness then only subsequently confirms.

The Central Park 5 case had this as a key element, as did the Martensville (Saskatchewan) Satanic-abuse case. In both those, the police thought they had "voluntary" admissions, but later on when the police themselves were investigated, it was shown they inserted their own ideas into witnesses.

Garbage in, garbage out.
 
You may have missed it - Arline Kercher has also said that at an appropriate time, she'd like to meet with Rudy Guede. AFAIK, this kind of thing is not unknown for victims of crime to want to face the perpetrator.

Also, AK and RS are not alleged murderers. They have been exonerated.

Duh_! They were at the time.
 
Really? John Kercher should meet his dear daughter's alleged murderer?

What an offensive proposition.
Not at all. I suggest you study the case of Gerald Hope, who very much wishes to meet the alleged killer of his 18 year old daughter Olivia. He is a proper human being.

Ms Hope's father Gerald, who has also been blocked from visiting Watson in prison, said in the article: "What we got was a conviction but we never got the truth. Nothing ever was confirmed, it was all circumstantial, there was no hard evidence.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11443534

ETA I replaced "despicable" with "poorly functioning" out of respect for you friends of Kercher.
 
What "bad faith"? In the case of the Guildford Four, there was the element of IRA terrorists planting a bomb designed to kill and maim UK servicemen. That was a case of political pressure to prosecute any old Sein Fein activist.

What "bad faith" did Mignini have towards Amanda, someone who voluntarily revealed to police at a very early stage, she was at the murder scene.

Were the cops supposed to ignore it?

The cops and Mignini were expected to test the evidence. They never did. What they tried to do was plug the holes in their case - Curatolo came in six months later - Quintavalle after a year. The knife DNA by cranking up the machine; the bra clasp collected from a trashed crime scene 46 days after the murder. Did they not know they'd compelled Amanda's statements? Were they unaware of the risks attached to pursuing hunches and then going at suspects in interrogations? I thought you said they were highly trained.

Like the Guildford four the pressure to convict was high. The incentive for it not to be solely down to the petty crook they'd let slip from their grasp before, substantial.

What about the withheld evidence? The lack of discovery?
 
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What "bad faith"? In the case of the Guildford Four, there was the element of IRA terrorists planting a bomb designed to kill and maim UK servicemen. That was a case of political pressure to prosecute any old Sein Fein activist.

What "bad faith" did Mignini have towards Amanda, someone who voluntarily revealed to police at a very early stage, she was at the murder scene.

Were the cops supposed to ignore it?

Do you think she wrote the statement in Italian herself?

When the police chief, De Felice, said they questioned her until she buckled and "told us what we knew to be correct", what do you think that meant. Since she told them a falsehood but it was what they knew to be correct how did she know what they believed to be correct?

I can only think of one way and that's they got her to agree with their POV for a few hours before she started writing the notes expressing doubt in what she had signed.
 
And if you rather preferred not to, that would make you a "vile, despicable person"? Really?


Please explain why.

Can you explain why it is an "offensive proposition" for Kercher to meet Amanda?
 
Many police forces are now trained to understand how they, themselves, taint witnesses. It is not unknown, it is very common, to find miscarriages of justice which originate from police interrogators inserting their own beliefs into a witness, which a witness then only subsequently confirms.

The Central Park 5 case had this as a key element, as did the Martensville (Saskatchewan) Satanic-abuse case. In both those, the police thought they had "voluntary" admissions, but later on when the police themselves were investigated, it was shown they inserted their own ideas into witnesses.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Where is the evidence that in the Central Park 5 case that: "the police thought they had "voluntary" admissions"? Has it been shown objectively that the police (and prosecutor, now a crime-mystery novelist) did not simply choose "suspects of convenience" in that case, and used coercive interrogation techniques to obtain (inconsistent) confessions? The lack of DNA evidence against the CP5 (and indication by the DNA evidence of a different individual as the rapist) did not alter the police and prosecution drive to quickly close the case....this may be a strong similarity to the AK-RS case.
 
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