You sure do if you are going to provide evidence of an apparent type of parthenogenesis in humans, and that the claimed 'blood' has undergone type-matching.
Miracle of the Shroud II: The Second Coming
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You sure do if you are going to provide evidence of an apparent type of parthenogenesis in humans, and that the claimed 'blood' has undergone type-matching.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Good morning, Mr. Savage!
You keep saying this, but you have yet to present a single bit of actual "evidence".
(Here are a few hints, in case you actually read this: 1)Underlining a word does not make it true. 2) Second-hand reposts about articles you have not read, or have read, or skimmed, but not understood, are not evidence. 3) Your hopes, however sincere, are not evidence.)
I encourage you to present this evidence, or at least provide a link to it.
I encourage you to present this evidence, or at least provide a link to it.
I wonder what you think "Xx chromosomes" means. Is that a new sidonist discovery? I encourage you to present this evidence, or at least provide a link to it.
Special pleading does not "reasonable explanations" make. Go back and read...your "reasonable explanations" do not conform with your own canon, and do not in any way address the fact that the CIQ is 780 years old.
Ignoring a response does not make it go away.
What there is is clear evidence of your assumption of your consequent. You have yet to present a single bit of evidence to suggest that the CIQ is 2000 years old. Your blythe assumption that Mme F-L must be an incompetent charlatan, a hapless tool, or a bald-faced liar do not change the fact that the CIQ has been demonstrated to be a medieval artifact by three independent labs, in what has been called the most scrutinized 14C test ever.
Again, I ask (as have others): what eidence leads you to hope that the CIQ is 2000 years old?
I eagerly await your actual responses to these posts, particularly your links to your primary sources.
You keep saying this, but you have yet to present a single bit of actual "evidence".
(Here are a few hints, in case you actually read this: 1)Underlining a word does not make it true. 2) Second-hand reposts about articles you have not read, or have read, or skimmed, but not understood, are not evidence. 3) Your hopes, however sincere, are not evidence.)
I encourage you to present this evidence, or at least provide a link to it.
I encourage you to present this evidence, or at least provide a link to it.
I wonder what you think "Xx chromosomes" means. Is that a new sidonist discovery? I encourage you to present this evidence, or at least provide a link to it.
Special pleading does not "reasonable explanations" make. Go back and read...your "reasonable explanations" do not conform with your own canon, and do not in any way address the fact that the CIQ is 780 years old.
Ignoring a response does not make it go away.
What there is is clear evidence of your assumption of your consequent. You have yet to present a single bit of evidence to suggest that the CIQ is 2000 years old. Your blythe assumption that Mme F-L must be an incompetent charlatan, a hapless tool, or a bald-faced liar do not change the fact that the CIQ has been demonstrated to be a medieval artifact by three independent labs, in what has been called the most scrutinized 14C test ever.
Again, I ask (as have others): what eidence leads you to hope that the CIQ is 2000 years old?
I eagerly await your actual responses to these posts, particularly your links to your primary sources.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
...I, for one, would be startled, and fascinated, to find out that the image on the CIQ was of a woman...
Rincewind
Philosopher
Actually, Jabba, I think the advice is that when a hole is as deep as yours is, then it's time to stop digging...
erwinl
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HighlightedThat means that, because Jesus was from a virgin birth, he didn't have a natural father and as such no y-chromosome.
That would mean either of two things (IF everything else would be true, and that is one humongous IF).
1. Jesus was a man with two x chromosomes. In other words a genetic anomaly.
2. Jesus was a woman. Possibly suffering from an abundance of facial growth.
Now. Ignoring the humongous IF. Which option would be more reasonable, biologically speaking? And which option would the fundies choose?
Edit.
Didn't see your extra post.
Last edited:
tsig
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The Resurrection Energy threw blood thru all time and place just waiting to settle on any reproduction of the shroud so the blood is real.
catsmate
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Your opinion, based on nothing more than your need to believe is worthless.
Citation required.
A lie.
Another lie.
erwinl
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The Resurrection Energy threw blood thru all time and place just waiting to settle on any reproduction of the shroud so the blood is real.
Totally reasonable. I think you've nailed it.
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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Are you claiming they have found the DNA of Jesus?
jond
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This new learning amazes me! Tell me again, how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes?
wollery
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Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
HighlightedThat means that, because Jesus was from a virgin birth, he didn't have a natural father and as such no y-chromosome.
That would mean either of two things (IF everything else would be true, and that is one humongous IF).
1. Jesus was a man with two x chromosomes. In other words a genetic anomaly.
2. Jesus was a woman. Possibly suffering from an abundance of facial growth.
Now. Ignoring the humongous IF. Which option would be more reasonable, biologically speaking? And which option would the fundies choose?
Edit.
Didn't see your extra post.
Even if a blood sample were demonstrated to be from an individual with (the vary rare) de la Chapelle syndrome, the genotype would be "XX" not "Xx". With Mr. Savage, it is difficult to distinguish among typos, mental errors, and mistruths he has been told (and uncritically quotes). I do hope he posts a link to the demonstration that the "blood" on the CIQ has been type-matched and genotyped...I would love to incorporate that into the new Forensic Science curriculum I am writing.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
The Resurrection Energy threw blood thru all time and place just waiting to settle on any reproduction of the shroud so the blood is real.
...you left out the bit where the linen was instantaneously transmogrified to gold and back...
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Never, surely the treasure is but one shovelful down.
Inorite? There HAS to be a pony...
Jabba
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Blood
- This is just the beginning.
- From http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/ford1.pdf.
Regarding the ‘blood,’ Heller and Adler (hereafter H&A) concluded that it was actual blood material on the basis of physics-based and chemistrybased testing, most tests of which will be discussed, specifically the following: detection of higher-thanelsewhere levels of iron in ‘blood’ areas via X-ray fluorescence, indicative spectra obtained by microspectrophotometry, generation with chemicals and ultraviolet light of characteristic porphyrin fluorescence, positive tests for hemochromagen using hydrazine, positive tests for cyanmethemoglobin using a neutralized cyanide solution, positive tests for the bile pigment bilirubin, positive tests for protein, and use of proteolytic enzymes on ‘blood’ material, leaving no residues. The tests and data not discussed are the reflection spectra indicative of bilirubin’s32 and blood’s presence,33 chemical detection of the specific protein albumin,34 the presence of serum halos around various ‘blood’ marks when viewed under ultraviolet light,35 the immunological determination that the ‘blood’ is of primate origin,36 and the forensic judgement that the various blood and wound marks appear extremely realistic.37
- And,
The McCrone Associates electron optics group did microprobe testing of 11 particles from tape 3-CB, and even they fail to claim finding manganese, cobalt, or nickel.203 McCrone Associates do claim finding via microprobe the elements sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon, phosphorus, sulfur, chlorine, potassium, calcium, iron, and copper (all of which H&A reported finding in ‘blood’ globs-- see above-- and all of which H&A note are “found in whole blood.”204) H&A wryly observe that “it would be a most peculiar mineralogical assemblage that would provide these elements and not the expected iron earth pigment impurities, i.e. manganese, cobalt, and nickel.”205
- From these two statements, it appears that H&A found precisely what should be found if the stains are blood, and McCrone Associates did not find what most likely would be found if the stains are paint.
- Also, the H&A papers claiming that the stains are blood were both peer-reviewed. As best I can remember, there has never been a peer-reviewed paper claiming that the stains are paint – am I missing something?
- This is just the beginning.
- From http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/ford1.pdf.
Regarding the ‘blood,’ Heller and Adler (hereafter H&A) concluded that it was actual blood material on the basis of physics-based and chemistrybased testing, most tests of which will be discussed, specifically the following: detection of higher-thanelsewhere levels of iron in ‘blood’ areas via X-ray fluorescence, indicative spectra obtained by microspectrophotometry, generation with chemicals and ultraviolet light of characteristic porphyrin fluorescence, positive tests for hemochromagen using hydrazine, positive tests for cyanmethemoglobin using a neutralized cyanide solution, positive tests for the bile pigment bilirubin, positive tests for protein, and use of proteolytic enzymes on ‘blood’ material, leaving no residues. The tests and data not discussed are the reflection spectra indicative of bilirubin’s32 and blood’s presence,33 chemical detection of the specific protein albumin,34 the presence of serum halos around various ‘blood’ marks when viewed under ultraviolet light,35 the immunological determination that the ‘blood’ is of primate origin,36 and the forensic judgement that the various blood and wound marks appear extremely realistic.37
- And,
The McCrone Associates electron optics group did microprobe testing of 11 particles from tape 3-CB, and even they fail to claim finding manganese, cobalt, or nickel.203 McCrone Associates do claim finding via microprobe the elements sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon, phosphorus, sulfur, chlorine, potassium, calcium, iron, and copper (all of which H&A reported finding in ‘blood’ globs-- see above-- and all of which H&A note are “found in whole blood.”204) H&A wryly observe that “it would be a most peculiar mineralogical assemblage that would provide these elements and not the expected iron earth pigment impurities, i.e. manganese, cobalt, and nickel.”205
- From these two statements, it appears that H&A found precisely what should be found if the stains are blood, and McCrone Associates did not find what most likely would be found if the stains are paint.
- Also, the H&A papers claiming that the stains are blood were both peer-reviewed. As best I can remember, there has never been a peer-reviewed paper claiming that the stains are paint – am I missing something?
Jabba
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XX?
From http://shroudstory.com/page/4/
Double Dipping in the Ink Well?
May 11, 2015Dan2 comments
imageShortly after the Shroud Exposition opened in Turin, the story broke that Italian police had created a “forensic” picture of what Jesus looked like as a boy. They used the image on the shroud. The story overshadowed other exposition coverage. The story made it into big daily papers around the world and into morning and nightly national television news. The picture is from ABC News a few days ago.
I repeated the story after reading about it in The Times (of London) with Computer Generated Young Jesus From Image on Shroud
- I can't remember how to capture the included image. Can I get some help?
From http://shroudstory.com/page/4/
Double Dipping in the Ink Well?
May 11, 2015Dan2 comments
imageShortly after the Shroud Exposition opened in Turin, the story broke that Italian police had created a “forensic” picture of what Jesus looked like as a boy. They used the image on the shroud. The story overshadowed other exposition coverage. The story made it into big daily papers around the world and into morning and nightly national television news. The picture is from ABC News a few days ago.
I repeated the story after reading about it in The Times (of London) with Computer Generated Young Jesus From Image on Shroud
- I can't remember how to capture the included image. Can I get some help?
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
Jabba, really.
Women have two X chromosomes. Men have an X, contributed by the mother, and a Y, contributed by the father. A baby with no father would be a clone of its mother. It would have two X chromosomes. Think about it: Where would the Y chromosome come from?
The only way blood could be the "right type" for a virgin birth is if it were a clone of the mother.
And this is leaving aside the somewhat ungainly issue of the fact that such technology was not possible 2000 years ago and is just barely within the range of possible now.
Please stop just saying things you wish were true. Say things that are backed by evidence.
Belz...
Fiend God
...I, for one, would be startled, and fascinated, to find out that the image on the CIQ was of a woman...
Jesus was a chick ?
Well that sure would piss off a number of religious nuts.
Firstly, you missed from your copypasta the important part of the story; which is that the Italian police were using computerised age-regression techniques to show how the person who was depicted on the shroud would have looked like as a young man. No blood testing or typing was done.
From your link:
Note that the scientists quoted have simply begged the question of whether the image that they age-regressed was that of Jesus.
As for the image. Do not hotlink to it. You will have to right-click on the image and save it to your computer, then either host it on a photo sharing site such as photobucket and share the link here, or attach the image to your post directly by using the paperclip icon on the advanced reply box.
If you need more simple step-by-step instructions, say so and I or someone else will endeavour to help.
The Italian police forensic scientists' age-regression technique has nothing to do with the blood or the chromosomes (and someone with XX chromosomes is female). If you are attempting to provide evidence for blood, blood-typing or even the age of the cloth, then that story does not even begin to be evidence of any of those things.
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