Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
Jabba, all this discussion about the blood is of no consequence. What part of of the phrase medieval artefact do you not understand?
Miracle of the Shroud II: The Second Coming
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MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
I seem to remember that the Manson "family" had no trouble painting with blood.
slyjoe
Illuminator
Not to be too pedantic, but this zombie of a thread has nothing new in it so I will point out that the count is, in fact, 0-1.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Not to be too pedantic, but this zombie of a thread has nothing new in it so I will point out that the count is, in fact, 0-1.
It has been pointed out to me that I reversed the numbers, thanks. I should remember that the balls come first.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
I am, in fact, a Rams fan (runner-up in state this year), an Isotopes fan, a Lobos fan, and a D-Backs fan...and I made an error...kinda like Yasmany Tomas in the 9th, last night.
Does this mean I'm going to get traded down to the ASF?
Lord help us, are you punning again?
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
"Again"? Say, rather, "still"...
Jabba
Philosopher
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Blood
- Why do you say that they had already "concluded: that the CIQ was "authentic"?
Slowvehicle,
- Why do you say that they had already "concluded: that the CIQ was "authentic"?
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
Why do you say they concluded blood was present when what they found was porphyrin?
Why do you say that the presence of blood makes it unlikely that the CIQ was painted? One is not a logical consequence of the other.
Did you read their actual paper? Not quotes of it, or paraphrasing, but the actual paper?
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
...because, they, as do you, started out with a need for the CIQ to be "authentic"; and, instead of examining the evidence and developing a conclusion from the evidence, a conclusion supported by the evidence, they only looked for things that could be said to support the conclusion of "authenticity" at which they had already arrived.
Did you read the actual article?
Are you aware that porphyrins indicate the presence of organic pigments, not "blood"? You seemed to have accepted that, a post or six back...
Is this another reset?
Jabba
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Blood/Bias
- But, on what do you base that claim? Everything I've read says the opposite. And, Adler was Jewish.
- I don't know about Heller, but the only person I know named Heller is also Jewish...
- As a matter of fact, I -- myself -- happen to be a member of a Jewish synagogue.
Slowvehicle,
- But, on what do you base that claim? Everything I've read says the opposite. And, Adler was Jewish.
- I don't know about Heller, but the only person I know named Heller is also Jewish...
- As a matter of fact, I -- myself -- happen to be a member of a Jewish synagogue.
Just curious- for the third time, did you read the actual manuscript, not just second hand interpretations of it?
From my outside web readings, I thought Jews (c'est moi) were not to be trusted! They just want to mate with white women. Frankly, this was my first hand experience when I was younger. And not just white women!
wardenclyffe
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Jabba,
I think that the problem many people in this thread have is that you will make a statement like you do above. We think that you have read and understood the papers and you know that such dyes have been around forever. Yet, in a few weeks or months, you will likely come back with the exact same argument that you just recognized was wrong. Is there anything you can do to retain this info? I know it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but I think it would help this thread a lot if you could retain what you learn as you go. That may be difficult, so perhaps you need to keep a paper file on the dozen or so topics that come up again and again. Then when they come up again, you can refer to the file and see in your own handwriting what information you have agreed is valid or invalid.
Ward
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Do you understand the concept of the non sequitur?
We had huevos rancheros three times last week, here at the demesne!
Look at the way Adler and Heller simply ignore the fact that the CIQ is 700 years old.
Look at the way A & H simply ignore the gravitationally impossible behaviour of the porphyrin-bearing pigment--it does not flow as fluid flows under the influence of gravity; it demonstrates neither adsorption, nor capillary flow.
In fact, unless one is committed to the pre-decided conclusion that the "blood" must have come from an unwashed, freshly dead (and therefore ritually unclean) corpse (which leaves the direction of the "flow" problematic); or from a washed corpse wrapped in strips (pace "Matthew") (which leaves the amount, even the mere presence, of "blood" problematical) (to say nothing of the violence done to the scriptural account, in either case); one is struck by how the porphyrin-bearing pigment appears where a hack artist with no understanding of physics or scripture would have daubed, or brushed it onto the CIQ,to provide verisimilitude for the anatomically inaccurate, posturally impossible, proportionally ridiculous, byzantine-styled representational image on the CIQ...
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